Mexico Connect
Forums  > General > General Forum
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


jrpierce


Oct 4, 2011, 7:02 PM

Post #26 of 43 (2038 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Reefhound] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
The history of organized crime is that they will certainly try to replace the revenues from marijuana. The US Mafia certainly did that in the aftermath of Prohibition. But the alternative activities are far less profitable, and more dangerous for the soldiers, so it weakens the organization. There is no magic bullet that will end the cartels overnight. It will take years of choking off their sources of money and influence.

Jim


Reefhound


Oct 4, 2011, 9:03 PM

Post #27 of 43 (2023 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bennie García] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
The 2006 estimate of 60% amounted to $8.6 billion so not sure where you got $15 billion. They would try to replace any way that they can - kidnapping, extortion, piracy, counterfeiting, increasing meth/coke volume, etc. And whether they can replace it all or not, does anyone doubt that they will certainly try? And their alternative activities will likely be occurring SOB meaning they will be pulling the cash from Mexican residents not American drug users.


richmx2


Oct 5, 2011, 7:39 AM

Post #28 of 43 (1986 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Reefhound] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
And their alternative activities will likely be occurring SOB meaning they will be pulling the cash from Mexican residents not American drug users.

If true, another excellent reason for Mexico to allow the trade to continue, rather than oblige the buyer, who can't seem to decide whether they want the stuff or not.



http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


Bennie García

Oct 5, 2011, 8:40 AM

Post #29 of 43 (1974 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Reefhound] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To
The 2006 estimate of 60% amounted to $8.6 billion so not sure where you got $15 billion. They would try to replace any way that they can - kidnapping, extortion, piracy, counterfeiting, increasing meth/coke volume, etc. And whether they can replace it all or not, does anyone doubt that they will certainly try? And their alternative activities will likely be occurring SOB meaning they will be pulling the cash from Mexican residents not American drug users.


Its almost 2012, amigo, so forget your outdated stats. Not that my 15 billion is accurate but we're still talking huge sums.

Now guess what? All of those crimes exist and existed before the present situation. And if you believe they can even come close to equaling the money brought in from illegal drugs, you are living in a fantasy land. So in the meantime, we should maintain the status quo? Nah, don't think so.

Legalize it all and let people take responsibility for their own actions. They did it for alcohol, they should do it for the rest.


donemry

Oct 5, 2011, 9:41 AM

Post #30 of 43 (1963 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bennie García] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To

In Reply To
The 2006 estimate of 60% amounted to $8.6 billion so not sure where you got $15 billion. They would try to replace any way that they can - kidnapping, extortion, piracy, counterfeiting, increasing meth/coke volume, etc. And whether they can replace it all or not, does anyone doubt that they will certainly try? And their alternative activities will likely be occurring SOB meaning they will be pulling the cash from Mexican residents not American drug users.


Its almost 2012, amigo, so forget your outdated stats. Not that my 15 billion is accurate but we're still talking huge sums.

Now guess what? All of those crimes exist and existed before the present situation. And if you believe they can even come close to equaling the money brought in from illegal drugs, you are living in a fantasy land. So in the meantime, we should maintain the status quo? Nah, don't think so.

Legalize it all and let people take responsibility for their own actions. They did it for alcohol, they should do it for the rest.


The question would then be what is an acceptable level of the "responsibility".

"Alcohol abuse kills some 75,000 Americans each year and shortens the lives of these people by an average of 30 years"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...s-year/#.ToyHy5sUqso




(This post was edited by donemry on Oct 5, 2011, 9:43 AM)


chinagringo


Oct 5, 2011, 9:48 AM

Post #31 of 43 (1957 views)

Shortcut

Re: [donemry] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
An article from 2005? Maybe one from 1955 would make your point?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



donemry

Oct 5, 2011, 9:54 AM

Post #32 of 43 (1955 views)

Shortcut

Re: [chinagringo] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To
An article from 2005? Maybe one from 1955 would make your point?


Do you really believe there has been a substantial change in the last 6 years? Which way did it change, more or less and by how much?


chinagringo


Oct 5, 2011, 10:11 AM

Post #33 of 43 (1951 views)

Shortcut

Re: [donemry] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
With all of the increased awareness and increased enforcement, I would estimate that the rate of alcohol related traffic deaths has been reduced in the last six years.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



CanuckBob


Oct 5, 2011, 10:34 AM

Post #34 of 43 (1945 views)

Shortcut

Re: [donemry] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
As I stated above, I think the biggest change is in the type of drugs the cartels are involved in. If they were primarily into marijuana I don't think the US govt. would give a rat's ass however they are now dealing in some very destructive, highly addictive, manufactered drugs. These ones should never be legalized unless you want a society of crazed zombies. Google "meth addicts" and have a look. This is why the US has started, and is fighting, the war on drugs IMO.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


CanuckBob


Oct 5, 2011, 10:40 AM

Post #35 of 43 (1943 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bennie García] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
Bennie, you think it would be good if your kids could go buy some meth at the corner store just for kicks on a Friday night? Two weekends later they will be addicted and 6 months later they will be skinny, toothless, crazy, worthless sacks of skin. Not all drugs should be legalized amigo...........

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


Bennie García

Oct 5, 2011, 11:29 AM

Post #36 of 43 (1930 views)

Shortcut

Re: [CanuckBob] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To
Bennie, you think it would be good if your kids could go buy some meth at the corner store just for kicks on a Friday night? Two weekends later they will be addicted and 6 months later they will be skinny, toothless, crazy, worthless sacks of skin. Not all drugs should be legalized amigo...........


Actually I have a neice, my parents first grandchild, that ruined her life with meth. She doesn't have a problem getting the stuff now so how that would change if legal I am not sure.

Alcohol and tobacco, of which you freely enjoy, also have a high cost to society. But tobacco abuse is diminshing thru awareness programs. I think that if you legalize drugs you will have a much less difficult time controlling them. And if you want to take meth off the legalized list then go ahead. But by legalizing the others, you would free resources that could be used to better control meth.

And along with legalization comes quality control and lower prices. Give stiff sentences to anyone selling to minors. Would people these days buy a teenager a six pack of beer if they were looking at 10 to 15 years in prison?


jrpierce


Oct 5, 2011, 1:14 PM

Post #37 of 43 (1909 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Bennie García] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
Bennie, in general I agree with you. I'd legalize marijuana tomorrow--to me a no brainer. I have misgivings, but could maybe be persuaded about cocaine and heroin with appropriate regs. I would draw the line at meth. However, if NOB and SOB cops were freed from worrying about the other drugs, I think they could do a pretty good job of dealing with meth--especially because so many potential customers already believe it is so dangerous. The big problem there is with kids.

Turn some of the big tobacco and/or alcohol companies loose with the project and in no time at all, there would be safe, controlled, product on the streets of the US, with purchase restrictions enforced just as they are for alcohol or cigarettes, and even with tax revenues. It isn't even complicated to implement!

Jim

Jim


richmx2


Oct 6, 2011, 9:11 AM

Post #38 of 43 (1854 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jrpierce] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
That's the "user" country solution... is it in Mexico's interest to have "the big tobacco and/or alcohol companies" controlling a Mexican (or, when it comes to cocaine, Andean) cash crop? Why should Mexico or the Andean countries agree to yet more foreign exploitation? Not that most profits aren't being made in the user countries now, nor that those "illicit" profits aren't being plowed into the economy in the user countries, but the history of foreign control of natural resources in Latin America does not suggest this is to the advantage of anyone here, except the exploiters.

Of course, one can say the producers, growers, transporters, (ok, and "security personnel") in the narcotics trade now are exploiters, but demanding foreign control to correct labor and human rights violations is not a solution so much as a wiling return to colonialism.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


jrpierce


Oct 6, 2011, 9:52 AM

Post #39 of 43 (1844 views)

Shortcut

Re: [richmx2] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
Cigarette and alcohol products are made by fewer and fewer international companies. The lion's share of tequila and cerveza production in Mexico is by subsidiaries of these firms. I think cigarettes are the same story. I can't imagine Mexico would have a problem with this any more than it does with the sale of Cuervo tequila nor Marlboros. Besides, given that some of the best marijuana in the world is grown in Mexico, perhaps as with whiskey or beer, special brands could be created focusing on Mexico product and offering an extra premium to Mexico--Michoacán Gold, perhaps??

Jim


richmx2


Oct 6, 2011, 10:51 AM

Post #40 of 43 (1831 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jrpierce] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
This is probably a philosophical difference, but the dependency of the producers of the raw ingredients of liquor and cigarettes being in foreign hands sort of makes my point... they are "legal" in good part because foreigners can control the profits. While tobacco farmers and agave growers and other producers are, of course, at the mercy of the sellers, I would rather the "cartels" that control their lives be based as close to the producers as possible. I can't see that JR Reynolds or Segrams or another foreign multinational has much interest in the welfare of the farm worker, and — being a corporation (which, like a vampire, can only die by artificial means, has no "soul" and exists only to ensure its own survival) — is designed to maximize profits for its shareholders, not consider the welfare of the producers.

That the rich countries are full of people who want to use narcotics (or coffee, or sugar, or oil, or gold, or lithium, or copper, or whatever) is not the fault of the people who have those products, nor should they be expected to make sacrifices for the benefit of those who want them, simply because they want them, nor is there any ethical reason one should assume those who desire the product have the right to its control.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


jrpierce


Oct 6, 2011, 11:20 AM

Post #41 of 43 (1825 views)

Shortcut

Re: [richmx2] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
Yes, Rich I think this is a philosophical matter. If we hold solving the cartel issues hostage to solving the problem of how big corporations treat the suppliers of their raw materials, we'll be waiting forever. As Voltaire put it, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Jim


YucaLandia


Oct 6, 2011, 1:50 PM

Post #42 of 43 (1805 views)

Shortcut

Re: [richmx2] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
Under your proposed solution, are there any scenarios where the current narco-cartels, Zetas, etc, become corporations (like Ogden, NYC trash haulers, etc), and as corporations under NAFTA, they are legal individuals in the eyes of the US Supreme Court: Individuals who then have full legal rights to make campaign contributions, start PACs, and Super PACs - becoming thoroughly embedded in the US political process, law-making, and elections?
-
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


Poncho32

Oct 8, 2011, 6:58 AM

Post #43 of 43 (1737 views)

Shortcut

Re: [davidkrug] My Take On How To End The Drug War

Can't Post | Private Reply
As I see it the drug problem in the U.S and Mexico today and the proabition era over the sale of liqor in the U.S. In the late 20's and early 30's are very similar and the solution also.
They made the product legal .
Once that is done the profit that fires the greed is gone.
This all sounds so simple and if the governments involved would work diligently for all their people it could get done.
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 
Search for (advanced search) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.4