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YucaLandia

Oct 1, 2011, 9:57 AM

Post #1 of 32 (4252 views)

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Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Based on some comments in other threads on electricity in this sub-forum, it seems that there's a need for a new thread on the practical aspects of happily using electricity in Mexico. There are things that users and expats can do to make our electrical issues less-shocking and less-jolting by making choices that smooth out our experiences here.

To kick things off, it's worth considering the different types of electrical quality problems that commonly occur with CFE service. The most common problems with electrical power service here are: low voltage (drooping to 90-95 VAC), high voltage (134 - 140 VAC) , voltage spikes, voltage drops, voltage surges, rapid "ON" / "OFF" cycling, and lightning strikes. Because each of our household appliances and electronics & computing devices has different electrical properties and different needs, each category needs different types of protection for the different electrical problems. They each have different Achilles' Heels

The different types of protection needed also vary as you move in from the meter. Since there are many details and many specifications needed to describe how to protect your electronics, computers, computer peripherals, and electrical appliances, it takes many paragraphs to describe how to do it well and cost effectively.

Please see the full article at Surviving Yucatan: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...-mexico-the-article/.
steve
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 1, 2011, 11:17 AM)

raferguson

Oct 1, 2011, 2:45 PM

Post #2 of 32 (4199 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Good points.

I would note, for those that have chronically high voltage, that a buck transformer arrangement can lower the voltage into a normal (USA) range. Buck transformers are not terribly expensive, and you can buy them large enough to run a microwave or whatever.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

YucaLandia

Oct 1, 2011, 3:02 PM

Post #3 of 32 (4196 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Have you seen a buck transformer at any Mexican retailers, or is it something you get from NOB or on Mercado Libre?
steve
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salto_jorge

Oct 1, 2011, 4:32 PM

Post #4 of 32 (4179 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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I have and have used the following, I prefer the UPS for computers.

Isolation transformer
Uninterruptible power supply (UPS), Voltage management, high voltage and brown outs
POWER STRIP / CONDITIONER
Tripp lite Super 7 (Surge suppressor)
Line Conditioner with Automatic Voltage regulator (big box stores sell these, APC makes these, have a transformer in them).

One must remember there is a cost associated to use any of these, they all use power when the attached devices are turned off.
The UPS must remain plugged in since your isolation is based on a storage battery and power inverter.

One must always ask, is it more cost effective to use appliances manufactured for the Mexican environment or try to clean up the power issues.

YucaLandia

Oct 1, 2011, 6:02 PM

Post #5 of 32 (4153 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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In Reply To

. . .
One must always ask, is it more cost effective to use appliances manufactured for the Mexican environment or try to clean up the power issues.

I like the principle. What appliances are manufactured for the Mexican environment?
steve
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Bennie García

Oct 1, 2011, 6:08 PM

Post #6 of 32 (4150 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Can someone provide proof that domestic electrical appliances are made specifically for Mexico? Is there a difference between an LG refrigerator sold in Mexico vs an identical model sold in Canada?

Actauul proof, please. Not some vacuous claim of the kind commonly found on these message boards.

chinagringo

Oct 1, 2011, 6:12 PM

Post #7 of 32 (4148 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Great question! For a long time, I have wondered if this was a "Gringo assumption" not based on any concrete evidence but rather an assumption.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

morgaine7

Oct 1, 2011, 6:40 PM

Post #8 of 32 (4142 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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I have the same question. Everything but my computer was purchased here in Mexico, and (touch wood) I've had no problems, even without protective gadgets. My wiring is new, though.

No "proof" whatsoever, unless you count that some of my appliances are rated at 127 volts rather than 110. Washer and dryer for sure ... I'd have to look up all the other ones.

Kate

Well, okay, here's a partial list, FWIW. Let me know if you need amps or watts or anything. I'm assuming these are manufactured for the Mexican market since I bought them here.

Printer (HP-adapter) 110-240v
Vacuum cleaner (LG) 120v
Microwave (LG) 120v
Iron (Black & Decker) 120v
Blender (Black & Decker) 120v
Coffee Maker (Hamilton Beach) 120v
Sewing Machine (Brother) 120v
Portable Stereo (Philips) 110-127v, 240v
Washer (Bosch) 127v
Dryer (Bosch) 127v
Stove (Bosch) 127v (gas w/ electric ignition, light)
Fridge (Bosch) 127v
Water pressure pump (Rowa) 127v

(This post was edited by morgaine7 on Oct 1, 2011, 9:33 PM)

johanson

Oct 1, 2011, 6:45 PM

Post #9 of 32 (4141 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Remember that the voltage here is 127 +/- 10% which is way different than Canada and the US. I can't remember what BC hydro is but Seattle City light attempts to set their voltage at up to 120 but not more than 125.

All I know is that the label on my new 600 my new Shaw Direct receiver says 100 to 127 volts and that if I don't provide protection (a voltage regulator for many of those products build to US or Canadian electrical products,) that they, not the Mexican products have failed when the voltage went above 138 or so which is OK here (127 +/- 10%) but not with many products made for up North.

Bennie García

Oct 1, 2011, 8:41 PM

Post #10 of 32 (4113 views)

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Re: [johanson] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Características Eléctricas Nominales

Frecuencia 60 Hz
Tensión nominal 115 V
Tensión nominal Centroamérica 115 V

Hecho en México por: MABE MÉXICO, S. de R.L. de
C.V. Avenida 5 de Febrero No. 1325 Nte. Apdo. postal
262, C.P. 76120, Querétaro, Qro. México.

This above is off of a Mabe refrigerator made for the Mexican market.

Rolly

Oct 1, 2011, 8:54 PM

Post #11 of 32 (4110 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Interesting. My 15-year old Mabe refrigerator says 127V +/- 10%.
The 35-year old Sears refrigerator that I borough from the States has worked just fine of the past 11 years in México.

Rolly Pirate

YucaLandia

Oct 2, 2011, 6:32 AM

Post #12 of 32 (4068 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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After 30 years of making fridges and stoves for the Mexican market, in the mid '80's Mabe joined with GE to make "GE" fridges and "GE" ranges for the US market. By 1995, roughly 95% of GE's US & Canadian stoves and fridges were: Mabe. Mabe bought Camco in 2005 (Canada's biggest appliance maker), giving Mabe an even bigger share of the North American market. According to a report I read 3 years ago (fuzzy memory?) Mabe makes roughly 90% of the gas ranges sold in North America. Mabe's expanding reach in the North American fridge and stove market explains the variations in prescribed Mabe fridge voltages over time. For Mexican made appliances, I would expect that Mabe's internal components are the same, and the exterior plates & stickers voltages may simply be a function of where Mabe expected to sell them?

Key fridge components like the start relay, fans, and compressor motors should not be sensitive to typical CFE voltage issues, but in the electronically controlled fridges, high household voltage does affect thermistor (temperature sensor) readings, and might affect electronic control circuits in a few exotic voltage events. The same thermistor issues occur with clothes dryers, where high household voltage tricks the dryer temperature sensing circuits into thinking the dryer is too hot: higher household voltage => artificially higher current through key thermistors => false high temperature readings => dryer shuts-off heater way too soon. e.g. A friends new "Easy" brand clothes dryer, made for the Mexican market, would shut off way too soon, leaving the clothes damp-to-wet due to 137VAC "withing specification" CFE power. We installed a voltage regulator, shifting the voltage down to 121VAC and the dryer immediately worked fine, and continues to dry clothes properly.

In almost all other appliances, the control circuits of electronically controlled appliances aren't much affected by voltage variations, because the control circuits use partly protected 5V & 12V from their power supplies, and the power supply boards are designed to accept a wide range of input voltages (105 - 135?) and convert them to 5 & 12 volts (one of the wonders of 3 pin regulators).

The most common voltage related problems we've seen here tend to be with transformers and diodes in microwave ovens, and occasionally the magnetron. Since microwave ovens are the appliance that suffers the most problems from Mexico's power problems, I am hoping that Bennie or someone else might know of a microwave oven maker that designs them to work with 114VAC - 140VAC that is permitted by CFE's specifications.
steve
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 2, 2011, 7:17 AM)

Bennie García

Oct 2, 2011, 7:06 AM

Post #13 of 32 (4055 views)

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Re: [johanson] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Except for very short intervals such as spikes, the main problem I have noticed is not excess voltage but low voltage, like around 90v. Not enough to run a refrigerator. I suppose if you are very close the transformer you may be more susceptible to voltage at levels higher than 120v but line voltage drops the further you are from the transformer.

YucaLandia

Oct 2, 2011, 7:30 AM

Post #14 of 32 (4045 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Interesting observation about low voltage. We have one coastal town in the area that has routinely suffered from low voltage for the past 5 years (Chelem). Northern Yucatan's biggest voltage problem is high household voltage. Isadoro may have played a role in that. According to a family member in CFE , the 2 weeks of Isadoro's heavy storm conditions forced CFE to quickly procure 6,000 transformers (not something they could buy off-the-shelf from a tlapaleria). This could explain our consistently high voltage problems here: an effect of the transformers bought during a crisis?

What typical voltages are other Mexconnect posters finding around different areas of Mexico?
Our household line voltages here across Merida range from 120VAC - 140VAC, with most falling between 127 - 135 VAC.
steve
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

arbon

Oct 2, 2011, 7:44 AM

Post #15 of 32 (4036 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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In Reply To

LG Refrigerators Canada.
http://www.lg.com/...rigerators/index.jsp

LG Mexico Refrigerators.
http://www.lg.com/...igeradores/index.jsp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(This post was edited by arbon on Oct 2, 2011, 8:06 AM)

Rolly

Oct 2, 2011, 7:51 AM

Post #16 of 32 (4033 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Over the years I have lived in Lerdo, I have, from time to time, checked the line voltage using my trusty Fluke digital meter. The reading has been a consistent 120V +/- nearly nothing.

Rolly Pirate

Sculptari

Oct 2, 2011, 8:30 AM

Post #17 of 32 (4011 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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The problem with electric power in Mexico is not only that voltage can vary, according to where you live, but also the power is "dirty", it has a lot of stray harmonics and "noise". For most electrical equipment, this is not a problem, other than shortening motor life, and low cost protection with a quality surge protector is adequate. On the other hand when you start running computers, medical equipment, telephone equipment or any other 'sensitive' electronic devices - you are going to run into problems. Lots of strange problems. Think of electricity as water running through pipes - if the water is crystal clear, with no debris, every thing runs according to theory. When you start running through the extremely tiny pipes of high tech electronics, even a speck of dust can create an unexpected effect. I first heard about this many years ago from a software engineer, who left the industry because he felt that computers, in the physical realm, just weren't up to the task they were designed to perform.

Residential power just isn't designed for sensitive devices. The only solution I have discovered is good quality, uninterruptible power supply. These are often sold on the basis of how many hours of power backup you can have - but the key is to convert dirty power to 12 volt, and then invert it back to a clean sine wave 120 volt.. I am running a Xantrex 20 amp inverter with 105 amp hr batteries. Xantrex really knows their stuff. You might get lucky with a power conditioner, from places in Mexico like Steren, but they key is always this conversion/inversion process. This equipment is also an important stepping stone into solar conversion as well, whether off the grid, or selling back to the grid.

Bennie García

Oct 2, 2011, 8:48 AM

Post #18 of 32 (3999 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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I think there is an electrical engineer on the board that should be able to clarify this but meanwhile (here's his chance to shine), I will take a stab. I am pretty sure that "dirty" in regards to electricity isn't a problem of voltage but frequency and that surge protectors or back up power supplies do not alter frequency. In other words, what goes in, comes out as far as frequency is concerned.

salto_jorge

Oct 2, 2011, 9:05 AM

Post #19 of 32 (3988 views)

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Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Discounting brown outs < 100 V and dirty power (electrical pollution) and high frequency noise.

Checking a few electrical devices I have found the label ~100-240V 50/60Hz 65W on devices plug in charges.

............. The appliance (or charger) adjusts itself to whatever voltage it receives (switching power supplies )

Other appliances have 115/230V 50/60Hz 200W. Allow for a range of 114 to 126 V (120 is nominal system voltage compared to the utilization voltage, main power is often called 110 ).

----------- These appliances are more frequently harmed (desktop computers, monitors, TV's e.t.c ). These devices can have switching power supplies but are not designed for wide voltage ranges.

(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Oct 2, 2011, 9:26 AM)

dongringo_catemaco

Oct 2, 2011, 12:49 PM

Post #20 of 32 (3933 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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As for dirty - Apart from a UPS I also run a power conditioner that is supposed to take care of the dirt and level out the voltage. A deceased techno friend had also suggested an additional inverter, for major brown out conditions. Actually though, my only problem has been blown computer power supplies and I keep 2 spares on hand instead of contributing even more to my outrageous CFE bill.

As for appliance quality made in Mexico, do not ask many of my Mexican friends. They are firmly convinced the stuff is second rate. Not according to my experience, although I suspect Costco brings "seconds" into Mexico to sell to me.
Visit Catemaco News

YucaLandia

Oct 2, 2011, 3:19 PM

Post #21 of 32 (3905 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Dirty power can be both noisy voltage and odd harmonics.

One beauty of transformer-based protection is that medium to large sized transformers damp out much of both issues. e.g, If you live in a neighborhood with lots of air conditioners being used, every time one of the neighbors' compressors kick on or off, they dump noise onto the circuit (sometimes called "cross talk") and they can also drag the circuit's base voltage down as they start, and cause voltage to shift up as they shut off.

One factor you can look at in considering line conditioning (voltage clean-up) capacity is their noise suppression rating (40 dB for a good entry level supply). If you rely only on a UPS, you might want to check out their noise suppression ratings. (Hint: most UPS manufacturers, except Tripp, do not list their actual noise suppression ratings. because UPS's are poor at noise suppression.) Typical UPS's are designed for BATTERY BACKUP, and not designed for cleaning up noise, nor for absorbing voltage surges.

Don Catemaco's friend was correct about the benefits of voltage stabilizers/line conditioners, in addition to UPS battery backup.

Voltage stabilizers/Line conditioners are also characterized by their joule ratings (1000 W-sec is typical for a good conditioner) that describe how much damaging electrical energy they absorb before failure. To emphasize that UPS's are designed for battery back-up, and not for line conditioning: APC's 650VA UPS have a joule rating of just 365 joules and their bigger 1400VA units are rated for just 420 joules. In contrast, Tripplite has a reasonable discussion of these issues at: http://www.tripplite.com/...sor-how-it-works.cfm

These are some of the reasons that there is no one-size-fits-all single solution that is a cure-all for all the problems that can occur here, which is why it takes 4 -5 different types of devices to get entry-level protection for the devices in our homes.

Fortunately, when considering how to protect your computer and its peripherals, power quality problems in most neighborhoods are adequately handled by a good UPS (costing more than $100). If your computer equipment is experiencing hardware/electrical problems, and you or your neighbors have big pool pump motors or big A/C compressors turning on and off, then you might also need a line conditioner/voltage stabilizer.
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 2, 2011, 3:55 PM)

Bennie García

Oct 2, 2011, 3:50 PM

Post #22 of 32 (3891 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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In Reply To

These are some of the reasons that there is no one-size-fits-all single solution that is a cure-all for all the problems that can occur here, which is why it takes 4 -5 different types of devices to get entry-level protection for the devices in our homes.
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We have an LG side by side refrigerator, an older Amana refrigerator, 2 freezers, a microwave, 2 TVs, 2 cable modems, 2 DVD players, a stereo, an X Box, 2 desktops, 2 laptops, 7 ceiling fans, 2 digital alarm clocks, LG Tromm digital washer and dryer and 4 mini-split AC units and 3 cordless phones. Two electric guitar amplifiers and assorted foot pedals. Plus all of the other assorted small appliances, toaster, a couple of coffee makers, blender, etc..

I have the computers plugged into a couple of Belkin power strips.

I think I've replaced 3 or 4 light bulbs so far this year.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Oct 2, 2011, 3:54 PM)

YucaLandia

Oct 2, 2011, 4:15 PM

Post #23 of 32 (3877 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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Bennie,
It's always nice to hear good news about things working well. Glad that you haven't lost equipment to power problems.

In addition to the high household voltage, we have the "Dentist to the Governor and other Luminaries" living next door, and almost everytime one of his big air conditioners kicks-on, our old-school transformer-based 1000VA UPS & our 2 line conditioners groan and hum loudly in reply. During a brief period when I switched to a newer UPS, we had a large laser printer fry and had an ethernet cable end fused into a network card from separate power surges. Fortunately, all $$ losses were covered by the new UPS's warranty = over a $500 savings/recovery. Since then, we went back to the old-school UPS and have had no further problems, other than heat and battery replacement costs.
steve
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 2, 2011, 4:19 PM)

Sculptari

Oct 2, 2011, 4:36 PM

Post #24 of 32 (3866 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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I have been fortunate because I live right on the raw Pacific beach, and that has affected my/our outlook. My converter/charger is the Xantrex MS2000, it is a marine unit, probably designed for 3 or 4 metre yacht. But the mental mindset of sailing at sea to unknown ports of call is probably a healthy one for homeowners in Mexico! You can't take electricity or anything else for granted. In Puerto Vallarta the Pirates are fake, same as the rest of Mexico

Our dead'un list is quite extensive, even in less than six months. The brand new microwave we brought down, with inverter technology(120 to DC), lasted 2 weeks before self destructing. The same unit is on sale at Liverpool, the premium store - wantta roll the dice ?

Luckily I enjoy the primitive pleasures - drink beer, char food on fire. Now that I am (semi) retired I guess I'll get to enjoy them evermore!

Marlene

Oct 3, 2011, 8:34 AM

Post #25 of 32 (3777 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Electricity Problems and Protecting Electronics in Mexico

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We use a heavy-duty Koblenz voltage regulator for our fridge and microwave, and found it to be a worthwhile investment. We bought it in Sam's Club a few years back, and still using the same microwave ever since. When we lived in an old house with old wiring, our microwaves used to have a life span of less than a year. One actually started running on it's own. Thankfully we were home, because it was smoking by the time we realized it was running and that neither of us had turned it on. Yikes.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Oct 3, 2011, 8:35 AM)

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