MexConnect.com Forums: General: Living, Working, Retiring: electric: Page 3

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morgaine7

Sep 27, 2011, 2:43 PM

Post #51 of 72 (1976 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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CFE is the government. "Comisión Federal de Electricidad". I believe it's under the Secretary of Energy.

Kate

YucaLandia

Sep 27, 2011, 4:30 PM

Post #52 of 72 (1957 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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In Reply To

Steve, you can twist and turn it anyway you want, but when I shell our $4,310 pesos for 1100KWH it's darn high. And to tout your subsidized rate as "the rate in MX" is a bit disingenuous.

All that means is the MXN Gov is using money to "overpay" (my belief) the CFE to give an artificially low price to some, while as noted,

other areas are favored due to climate considerations which is also totally subjective and obviously is not "production cost" based.

We all know what happens when governments get into the business of manipulating rates etc. It also means that money is not being used for other infrastructure items etc.

How can the Mexican Government give money to itself, as claimed?

How can "climate considerations" be "totally subjective", when the rates and Tarifas are based on a publicly described formulae, using official monthly average temperatures recorded by official weather stations?

The point of commercial clients and high energy usage DAC clients paying higher rates that subsidize residential electricity users is a new and different topic. Mexico chooses to subsidize basic food prices, modest electricity use, and clean municipal drinking water. These are choices that Mexican voters and Mexican citizens have made over the past decades, and seem not to be a proper subject for criticism by foreigners.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

mazbook1

Sep 27, 2011, 6:26 PM

Post #53 of 72 (1931 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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YucaLandia, "Mexico chooses to subsidize basic food prices, modest electricity use, and clean municipal drinking water. These are choices that Mexican voters and Mexican citizens have made over the past decades, and seem not to be a proper subject for criticism by foreigners. "

¡AMEN!, 'mano.

And besides that, I haven't seen any mention of the "green" pricing structure that NEARLY every utility (government or private) practices in México. Use more water, the rate goes UP rather than down. Use more telephone service, the rate goes UP rather than down. So just why SHOULDN'T the electric rate go UP rather than down the more you use? It only makes good sense.

Sounds like a "green's" dream to me.

playaboy

Sep 28, 2011, 6:26 AM

Post #54 of 72 (1877 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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I have been reading this thread and chuckling.

One of the reasons the rates are high is because of all the theft of electricity. I know people that run their A/C off the meter. Some even run half their house that way. In rural areas I have seen electric cords running on the ground from the pole to the home a couple of blocks away.

The other reason is that in the last 10 years a lot of Mexico is just getting electricity. They have to pay for that infrastructure some way.

The reason I am chuckling is because I don't own and just rent with all my utilities included. A/C runs 24/7, electric skillet to fry my chicken, and no CFE bills for me.

stevebrtx

Sep 28, 2011, 4:03 PM

Post #55 of 72 (1818 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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Good one Steve, "how does a government give money to itself? I'd bet if you asked they'd tell you no one is more deserving than themselves.

Now granted, government is not a business, and rarely if ever "profitable" or even close to efficient when they attempt to conduct business because they are modeled as "anti-business". Primarily, in business you prosper by being more efficient and cutting costs, produce more for less. In government it's exactly the opposite, you only get to increase your budget by spending all you're allocated for a year, no matter how, just spend it and ask for more.

All that said, as I was motoring through the lovely countryside out SE of Guad today trying to think of a successful business model which penalizes you, per unit, for buying more. I'm sure I'm missing something. Like 2X1 on Monday, 1X2 on Tues, which day do you think sells the most. So what multinational, national, local or neighborhood business's can you site that are hugely successful on charging more per unit for buying more?

Now, if you want to penalize or gouge people, then it works, especially if you're the only game in town with a needed commodity. If you want to limit consumption, that's easy if you're honest about it, especially if you are the only game in town, you just don't increase capacity, you tell people that's all there is, ain't no more, learn to live with it. Of course in the real world that automatically generates competition, sadly, not when you're the monopoly. What model do you imagine the CFE is built on?
http://www.chapalaweather.net

tonyburton / Moderator

Sep 28, 2011, 4:11 PM

Post #56 of 72 (1816 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Your argument might have some validity IF and only IF all energy production and usage was 100% sustainable; but it isn't.

stevebrtx

Sep 28, 2011, 4:27 PM

Post #57 of 72 (1810 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] electric

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I reject your "if and only if" premise, that's not the case, nor does it have to be, however the current business model and inefficiency does guarantees it by default.

It does point out two major flaws in the CFE, first they are essentially a government entity, so as I stated, almost guaranteed to be inefficient, but more importantly there has been, and continues to be, a staunch, unrelenting, resistance to private investment in much of Mexico in general. Just as Pemex is limited in it's ability to explore and develop new fields, the CFE could dramatically change with a different business model allowing privatization (see competition). As some remember, the CFE used to be in the gas business, but that was finally broken apart.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

Bennie García

Sep 28, 2011, 5:02 PM

Post #58 of 72 (1803 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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So Steve, while cruising the countryside today, did you give any thought to why you are paying nearly one dollar less per gallon of gasoline here through the national oil company, than you would be paying in the US, where it sold to the public by a free market icon, big oil? And it wasn't even self-serve!

RickS

Sep 28, 2011, 5:54 PM

Post #59 of 72 (1790 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] electric

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My experience has been that, when you find opposing factions entrenched in their beliefs, no amount of logic and reason is going to get either faction to listen to what is being said, much less back down. This is true in business and politics (shall I mention the Democrats vs Republicans!?!).

Also, if I ever saw a thread that has run its course and needs to be locked, this one would be at the top of my list. The OP is long gone from this discussion and probably from MexConnect....

Praise the lord and pass the kwh's !!!

TxMex

Sep 28, 2011, 7:24 PM

Post #60 of 72 (1773 views)

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Re: [RickS] electric

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Electricity rates vary greatly from place to place. When I lived in Coatepec I had fairly normal electric bills....still a lot cheaper than NOB. Then I moved up the mountains to a tiny little village and my electricity for a bigger house was $4 US for 2 months :)

Just to make y'all feel better about your expenses in Mexico.....at the store today I bought a loaf of bread, a gallon of 2% milk and 3 dozen eggs. I handed the clerk a $20 and received only coins back. Inflation is eating our lunch up here!

playaboy

Sep 29, 2011, 6:18 AM

Post #61 of 72 (1728 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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This is an article from our local newspaper talking about the nationwide petition drive. This will affect all of you that pay CFE.

http://www.poresto.net/...&idTitulo=118357

(This post was edited by Rolly on Sep 29, 2011, 6:48 AM)

stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 7:14 AM

Post #62 of 72 (1713 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] electric

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Bennie asks a good question and while I usually ignore him, this one deserves an answer.

I really don't drive a lot, so the cost of gas doesn't have much meaning to me anymore. However, yesterday I was coming back from Ocotlan and the stretch of road to the Chapala Hwy is a miserable excuse for a road, what isn't under construction should be. One stretch of several miles with stupid little topes, so we're all weaving off onto the shoulders or into the oncoming lane to avoid them. And while it didn't specifically come to mind at that moment, maybe, just maybe, if they did charge a bit more they could improve roads like that one. Maybe, just maybe Pemex could invest some money in new deep water exploration and develop new fields to supplement the declining ones.

I have often lamented the fact that the house I rent only pays $195 a year in tax while my roughly equivalent home in TX was $6,000. Maybe if they charged a bit more, my street would actually be passable, not a rock strewn field of mud/dust I navigate to/from mi casa. Maybe they would provide a street light rather than me buying one and installing it myself for safety. And just maybe they could invest a bit in schools to move the next generation into the 21st century, but I realize that's only a dream, because as this thread indicates, giving more money to any government far from guarantees improvements - and I might add, especially in Mexico.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

Bennie García

Sep 29, 2011, 7:43 AM

Post #63 of 72 (1700 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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A predictable response from Steve. As he says, he usually doesn't respond to me in this manner. Most of the time he responds via PM and with language prohibited on the message board.

So in his opinion, Mexico is damned if they do and damned if they don't. He complains about electricity tariffs but because he doesn't drive much, he is all in favor of raising gasoline prices. He rents a home and doesn't pay property taxes but suggests a hike there also.

Looks like he thinks things should be run according to his personal needs.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 29, 2011, 7:52 AM)

stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 11:28 AM

Post #64 of 72 (1658 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] electric

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Bennie,

My my my, you are a bit slow, it's taken you 5 years to figure that out. The CFE is corrupt and needs to change for ALL people living in MX for the good of the future of MX. The roads can use a huge amount of work, a little more there isn't a problem and surely you can't possibly justify the real estate tax rates, lack of infrastructure and education? There needs to be moderation in all things to achieve balance and to move the country ahead - that is unless you're advocating keeping Mexico in the 19th century.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

Bennie García

Sep 29, 2011, 11:51 AM

Post #65 of 72 (1655 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Steve, in the first place, you have been here for a very, very short time and therefore have absolutely no frame of reference to compare anything to. The progress in infrastructure and government services is far ahead of what it was a mere 20 years ago. You haven't got a clue.

Face it, if things don't conform to your way of thinking you just fall to pieces. That happens to control freaks like yourself, especially when coupled with an ultra conservative view point.

You really need to come to grips with that. Or failing that, move back to Texas where you can use cheaper electricity to heat your cheaper Campbell's Pork and Beans. But undoubtedly you'd just find something else to complain about.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Sep 29, 2011, 11:58 AM)

Rolly

Sep 29, 2011, 12:02 PM

Post #66 of 72 (1648 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] electric

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Guys, please cut the sniping. Lets get back to the subject -- los bandidos de CFE.

Rolly Pirate

morgaine7

Sep 29, 2011, 12:23 PM

Post #67 of 72 (1636 views)

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Re: [Rolly] electric

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As if on cue from this thread, yesterday mid-afternoon my neighborhood had a major brownout that was probably wind-related (a huge gust blew the curtains horizontal at the same instant the fans stopped). I checked with neighbors before calling CFE, so by the time I reached them, they were already on it. About an hour or two later we had a total blackout, soon followed by everything coming back to normal. So the whole event was maybe three hours at most. This is typical of CFE service here and is gratefully appreciated. Our temp was close to 100F at the time of the problem, so everybody had to go outdoors because it was too hot indoors without fans. My dog and I were in the pool. Smile

Kate

stevebrtx

Sep 29, 2011, 6:50 PM

Post #68 of 72 (1582 views)

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Re: [Rolly] electric

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Granted, I'm essentially a tourista, I've only lived here a scant 4 years, even though my first trip to MX was in 1978. But, it's been my observation that other than the Magic Kingdom of Disney it's rare for any government, governmental agency, commission, municipality, you name it, to automatically and magically, on their own, become more efficient, improve their product and/or cut costs, it's not their business model. I have seen them raise costs, become corrupted by self interest and self preservation at taxpayers expense, but rarely the opposite.

Change is driven by customers dissatisfaction. Now, I don't know exactly how long you have to be here to realize the CFE is the poster child for needed improvement, but on average I pay $3,500 to $4,000 pesos every 2 month, somewhere a bit short of $100,000 pesos since arriving - I'd say that should go a ways to allowing me to form an opinion of the CFE. Now, that may be chump change to some of us, but even if it is, I can think of a lot of other good local causes who could use that money.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

Marlene

Sep 30, 2011, 9:35 AM

Post #69 of 72 (1516 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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Quote

Change is driven by customers dissatisfaction.

Thanks for the chuckle. Have you heard the local expression "ni modo"?

If you don't feel you are consuming the amounts you are being billed for, you probably should have your meter checked by the CFE, followed by having the home's wiring checked over to make sure there are no mystery energy drains. Maybe you have done that already.

stevebrtx

Sep 30, 2011, 3:42 PM

Post #70 of 72 (1469 views)

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Re: [Marlene] electric

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Please don't take this as disrespect or personal, but you're giving advise to a guy with an EE who worked on the NASA program that put man on the moon, in that respect, I suppose you could actually say I was in "rocket science".

I know exactly what I use, why and when I use it. that is not, nor has been, the subject of this thread or other discussions regarding the CFE. The question is, and has been, their claim of production costs, service and quality of product. Again, just a statement of facts.

And, just in case you missed my earlier comment, I use roughly 1/4th the power is used NOB - but pay as much or more. If the CFE is actually that inefficient then the full government is missing a great chance to make some good revenue by bringing in someone who can produce it more in line with world standards.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

YucaLandia

Oct 1, 2011, 6:23 AM

Post #71 of 72 (1414 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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I would guess that Marlene is just being helpful to someone who does not seem to understand how some things work in Mexico.

You did say you have a EE degree, but you also said that you lost $1,000's of your electronics etc, due to power problems. You also said that if you had known, you would choose a different place without a pool. e.g. Old timers who know Mexico know that important electronics and electrical appliances must be protected from common everyday CFE issues: low voltage (drooping to 90-95 VAC), high voltage (134 - 140 VAC) , spikes, voltage drops, lightening strikes, etc. In 30 years, we have had 3 transformers on our block go out, etc. etc. etc., but due to the use of the right device to protect each type of appliance, we have had zero dollar losses.

For people who do not have EE degrees, it takes a different device to protect a large microwave oven, than to protect a computer, than to protect an electrical controlled refrigerator vs. an electronic controlled refrigerator, than to protect a small microwave oven, than to protect a printer, than to protect a clothes dryer, than to protect a TV. The dozen or so EE's I've known, do not know the practical aspects of what specific protection is needed for each different type of electronics and electrical appliances. We use 5 different types of protectors around our house - each matched to the specific need.

There is a big difference between real-world issues in Mexico and the theoretical things a EE Rocket Scientist knows, otherwise you would have known about DAC rates in advance, known about the different billing tiers based on heavy usage. You would have known the costs of running a pool pump in your area, and that a pool pump plus modest household electricity usage would cause you to lose the 75% - 79% government subsidies (discounts). If you knew the practical aspects of electrical use in Mexico, you would have known that you would be paying $10,000 in power bills that you complain of, and maybe made different choices.** If you knew the practical realities of power quality here, you could have protected your important and valuable electrical and electronics around your home.

People are describing how things actually work here, so, you will have the power and knowledge to make different choices, and make things better, for both you and for lurkers who read these threads.

Forewarned is forearmed.
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**Due to my wife's clear explanations, all of our CFE bills have been below $350 pesos a month for the past 5 years, while using the modern conveniences of satellite TV, air conditioning, microwave ovens, computers, printers, scanners, etc., and we have not had any $$ losses due to electrical damage by using about $270 of various types of protectors. We have basic 240VAC service on a single meter, and no solar, wind, or other alternative energy help.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 1, 2011, 6:54 AM)

stevebrtx

Oct 1, 2011, 8:48 AM

Post #72 of 72 (1370 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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Ok, I give up, I know nothing about electricity or Mexico.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

(This post was edited by stevebrtx on Oct 1, 2011, 9:15 AM)

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