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tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 5:17 AM

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electric

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The word is on Cozumel that the governement wants to raise electric rates. There is a petition going around 10,000 people must sign it to have it brought to congress

Tony

johanson

Sep 25, 2011, 6:49 AM

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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Tony I'm confuse. CFE, the electric Utility, has been increasing the cost of electricity an average of about 12% per year since I started checking over 10 years ago. Go to the CFE web-page and and look at the historic charges. The cost per KWH has been going up for as many years as they show.

stevebrtx

Sep 25, 2011, 8:10 AM

Post #3 of 72 (15246 views)

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Re: [johanson] electric

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Last time I researched it a couple of months ago, if you're in the DAC rate, you're in elite company, I believe only 3 other countries in the entire world have higher rates, so guess CFE isn't satisfied with being in 4th place.

tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 10:46 AM

Post #4 of 72 (15205 views)

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Re: [johanson] electric

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I am confused that your confused.
Another rate hike is coming and there are those against it.
I believe the rates here on Cozumel are more then other zones
Most people here can't afford to use AC they only use it to sleep at night.
So why the confusion I guess people are saying enough.

Tony

johanson

Sep 25, 2011, 3:22 PM

Post #5 of 72 (15171 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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Now friend :) You have me even more confused. If you are talking about the DAC rate, that is very high, so high that I invested in photo voltaic solar panels and rather than paying more than 4 pesos per KWH at DAC (and the monthly fijo{spelling}) I am paying about 80 centavos per KWH because I am being subsidized by the Mexican government.

Yes the user who does not receive a government subsidy to help pay for his electricity pays on h*ll of a lot per unit of electricity especially if you come from places like Seattle where I do, where the fuel to run the electric generators is free. Yes, up there we use water, coming down the mountains and running of the dams, and its free.

I have seen charts in Mexico showing that they have to pay for almost all of the fuel and that almost 80% of the fuel used to create electricity in Mexico comes from fossil fuels which are not cheap. And some suggest that because CFE is almost a monopoly that they aren't that efficient. But I'm not stating that, because I have no idea

I just know that my pay back time for my investment has been worked out to be less than 8 years. Perhaps 6.

Yes, my last bill was $7,900 but that was centavos, you know $79 pesos for two months. That beats the more than $5000 pesos I have had to pay in the past every (or almost every) two months.

tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 4:14 PM

Post #6 of 72 (15157 views)

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Re: [johanson] electric

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I am so glad you are paying 79 pesos but it is not relevant to the thread
In yyCozumel we pay a higher rate then most other places and to go into Dac it does not take much.
So my original statement was that the gov't is looking for a rate hike and people are taking up a petition.
They feel the rates here are way to high so high that people only use the A.C. to sleep
I find nothing confusing about what I said.
Maybe one day everyone can afford solar panels until that day I guess we just have to pay and pay and pay.
But please don't be confused by my thread
One last thing 8ys to break even at my age of your age is a gamble you can be dead before you recoup and that money you spent could have been invested to make more money. There are some good investments still out there

Tony

(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 4:38 PM)

Bennie García

Sep 25, 2011, 4:36 PM

Post #7 of 72 (15153 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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In Reply To

The word is on Cozumel that the governement wants to raise electric rates. There is a petition going around 10,000 people must sign it to have it brought to congress

Tony

Good for them and good luck to them.

Anything else we should know?

DavidHF

Sep 25, 2011, 4:43 PM

Post #8 of 72 (15152 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] electric

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Tony, the "Government" doesn't "look for" rate hikes, CFE simply raise the rates. Just like on gasoline and propane. It is what it is.

whynotwrite

Sep 25, 2011, 5:14 PM

Post #9 of 72 (15141 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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People who are not Mexican Nationals should not be signing petitions as far as I am concerned.

Marlene

Sep 25, 2011, 6:11 PM

Post #10 of 72 (15121 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] electric

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http://www.dqr.com.mx/...a-tarifas-electricas

The folks in Quintana Roo are up in arms over the rating classifications. The article is in Spanish but I couldn't find anything written in English. In Quintana Roo (it's not just a Cozumel thing) 75% of the consumers are classified at Tarifa 1B, and they want to be reclassified to 1C or 1D. Tarifa 1B doesn't allow for much usage before kicking into the high user/business rates of DAC.

We, in Mazatlan, are on 1D, and our Governor promised us before summer that he had finally gotten our area reclassified to 1F (which would be a dream rating for summer usage) after a year or so of working on it. Still waiting, and we don't really believe it's going to happen.

This webpage is helpful to see what the rates are in each classification and how they are arrived at (local temperatures). The thing they don't take into account is the humidity factor in summer.

http://www.cfe.gob.mx/.../Conocetutarifa.aspx

tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 7:16 PM

Post #11 of 72 (15099 views)

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Re: [Marlene] electric

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CRE is run by the gov't so same difference as far as I see it.
And the last person who posted was correct if you watch tv and have one light bulb on your in Dac
So yes it is a situation that is of concern to all who are down here.
As far as signing petitions, I understand you are not supposed to get involved politically but as a consumer you have a right to speak out. I myself will not sign the petition but I believe if I did I would have a right to. I am sure they will get the required number of signiatures without me.

(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 7:20 PM)

chinagringo

Sep 25, 2011, 7:56 PM

Post #12 of 72 (15078 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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Another fresh "Gringo off the boat or turnip truck" who thinks they can change Mexico! Harsh comment? Maybe? But the reality is that, you will have zero effect and rightfully so because it is their country!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 8:13 PM

Post #13 of 72 (15069 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] electric

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I used to think this was a good message board but the more I hang around I find it filled with people that either are braggerts or illiterates or just stupid therefore I am gone
Just for your info if you would have read the entire post including the link to the article the protest is made of Mexicans
You call me a Gringo I call you stupid and illiterate

later for you all I had enough of your elitist bull. I was just posting what is going on in our part of the world but then again some of you need to get the stick out of you know what

Tony

(This post was edited by tonynico on Sep 25, 2011, 8:16 PM)

Rolly

Sep 25, 2011, 8:21 PM

Post #14 of 72 (15065 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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I myself will not sign the petition but I believe if I did I would have a right to.
Wise decision, Tony, because you do not have the right to sign the petition.
You could go the the CFE jefe's office and plead for a rate reclassification; that would be a commercial act.
But signing a petition to the government to take an action is a political act which a non-citizen is not allowed to do.

Rolly Pirate

tonynico

Sep 25, 2011, 8:25 PM

Post #15 of 72 (15057 views)

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Re: [Rolly] electric

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Rolly
This is not an American thing this is everybody who lives down here tired of the rates that are paid. Nobody likes being fleeced I don't care what color or nationality you are
But I am truly tired of people twisting things to make it sound like the new gringo on the block
I wish you the best and there are others I will miss as well but the majority or at least many or nothing but jerks
I wish you well

Tony

Marlene

Sep 25, 2011, 10:48 PM

Post #16 of 72 (15030 views)

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Re: electric

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It's not a matter of anyone being "fleeced". It's the way CFE sets the rates and they have a formula for doing so, based on historically recorded temperatures. If you overuse, based on their tariff rating for your area, you WILL pay. To those thinking of retiring in Mexico, electricity costs in the area you are thinking about moving to, are worth investigating in advance, specifically so there are no such surprises. Use gas dryers and stoves, rather than bringing your electric appliances.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Sep 25, 2011, 10:50 PM)

YucaLandia

Sep 26, 2011, 6:18 AM

Post #17 of 72 (14986 views)

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Re: [tonynico] electric

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Tony,
The 1B Tarifa billing system is pretty strict, compared to 1C. The $Peso per kW-hr rates are the same for both 1B and 1C, but the tiers of allowed consumption for Basico and Intermedio services are very different.

Here in Merida (1C) we are allowed 150 kW-hr of power at just $0.647 Basico rate before the consumer goes to the Intermedio rate, while your 1B $0.647 rate only allows 125 kWhrs before going into the Intermedio rate.

Here in Merida (1B) we are allowed 300 kW-hr of power at just $0.971 Intermedio rate before the consumer goes to the $2.569 Excedente rate, while your 1B $0.971 rate only allows 75 kWhrs before going into the $2.569 Excedente rate.

This means that you can consume 130 watts per daytime hour every summer day at the cheapest rate (the equivalent of 1 TV) and another 80 watts (the equivalent of a fan) per daytime hour at the second level rate, before getting kicked into the 3X higher Excedente rate.

I can see why you and your neighbors would like cheaper rates: using just a TV or computer and a fan 16 hrs a day to get kicked into the Excedente rates.

Before you completely reject Johanson's approach:
If you use 800 kW-hr (somewhat heavy use) per billing period, before going into the DAC rate, you could save about $1,650 pesos per month with a smallish wind power system, or roughly $120 USD a month. Johansen's point about renewable energy seems to make sense, in that you could pay for a decent $5,000 wind turbine system in 40 months at 25 kWhr per day. If you go into the high usage 400 kW-hr per month DAC rates, you could pay for your turbine in as little as 24-30 months.

40 months or less of cost recovery time, to have free power after that time seems like a decent bargain? You don't even need to have batteries, if you use CFE's plan to install a meter that feeds your extra unused wind/solar generated power back onto the grid. see: http://www.yolisto.com/...r-power/page__st__80 for more info.

Finally, the Mexican Constitution strictly forbids foreigners from participating in any political activities or things that are part of the political process, governance, or government operations.
See: http://www.yucatanliving.com/...affecting-expats.htm

Best of luck with your protests, the breezy beach regions in Yucatan are also in the 1B Tarifa zone, so, your efforts might also affect all of our beach zones.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 26, 2011, 7:28 AM)

robt65

Sep 26, 2011, 6:26 AM

Post #18 of 72 (14983 views)

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Re: [Marlene] electric

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Hello Marlene,

Very prudent observation and suggestions. Personalities, preferences, and being spoiled sure aren’t going to pay the bills. Time to really shut up, tighten up and grow up to face the economic facts of life, NOB or here in our adopted Mexico. If one didn't do their homework before moving to their perception of their Shangri-La well that's life. Even gas will go up, hopefully not as high as the electric has. I think that Pete Johansen has the right idea, it is just out of reach financially for a lot of us. “Going Green” is just going to become a fact of our new and very ill abused (by our generation) world.

robt65

sioux4noff

Sep 26, 2011, 7:19 AM

Post #19 of 72 (14971 views)

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Re: [Marlene] electric

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Quote

We, in Mazatlan, are on 1D, and our Governor promised us before summer that he had finally gotten our area reclassified to 1F (which would be a dream rating for summer usage) after a year or so of working on it. Still waiting, and we don't really believe it's going to happen.

I live in southern Nayarit on the coast. Our summer climate is similar to Mazatlan. However we are in the Tarifia 1B, where we can use only 400kwh/month average before going into the DAC rate. We can't quite keep our usage that low, even though we try.
We could easily keep within the 1D limit of 1000 kwh/month, and be able to use our A/C a little more. That is 2 1/2 times what we are allowed, with similar climates.
Instead of Mazatlan going to a limit of 1F, a totally ludicrous 2,500 kwh/month, CFE ought to look at other coastal areas such as Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta and bring some equity to the rates. Even in areas such as Lake Chapala, where air conditioning isn't as needed, residents there have a very low usage allowed.
It appears to me that your governor is playing to the wealthy crowd in Sinaloa.

(This post was edited by sioux4noff on Sep 26, 2011, 7:24 AM)

Marlene

Sep 26, 2011, 8:23 AM

Post #20 of 72 (14939 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] electric

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You are absolutely right. The rating territories should be reevaluated. 1B allowances are not adequate for humid coastal regions of the country, where air conditioning is a necessity for sleeping. DAC rates are insane, and it's why many restaurants here close up at this time of year, putting people out of work. What few customers there are, won't go to a restaurant without air conditioning, so it's a vicious cycle.

salto_jorge

Sep 26, 2011, 8:49 AM

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electric

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Has anyone used a "Kill-A-Watt" meter to determine what their electric appliances are using ?
I purchased one and would like to see a comparison between the power usage of US products and Mexican products when running and turned off.

The TV and computer must be disconnected when not using them or they always use electricity.
My surge protected power strip is wasting power if it is left on, yes it is protecting things that should be unplugged.
It uses power even when nothing is plugged into it (last weeks test).

Most chargers are always consuming power at one time or another even when they are not charging anything.
Any other device that has some kind of LCD lamp or light on it like the dvd or vcr etc. has to be unplugged.

I have decided to use the cheap power strips and turn them off after the appliances are powered down as a way to reduce consumption.

Hair dryers and the like plus toasters are all abusers. How about making toast on the grill atop the gas stove.

To conserve we have to keep our computer and monitor powered down when not on line (NO skype or MJ then) plus the UPS.

(Not Spell checked)

(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Sep 26, 2011, 8:51 AM)

YucaLandia

Sep 26, 2011, 9:11 AM

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Re: [salto_jorge] electric

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salto_jorge,
The Kill-a-Watt meter is fun and useful. A double E buddy and I measured all kinds of loads across both our homes. We found that A/C is the heavy hitter at 2,000 - 3,000 watts. Our little water heater comes in second, (1,800W) but my wife uses it just 10 minutes a day to take the chill off her morning shower. Microwave ovens @ 1,600 - 1,700W come in @ third place. Toasters and hairdryers come in fourth (but most people use them for just a few minutes per day). Recently purchased cheap(er) Mexican fans use about 75W - 125W, while more expensive US fans (Vornado) use 40W - 75W to move about the same amount of air. We have some old Panasonic and Electrolux lower speed fans that are almost as efficient as the Vornado at all speeds.

Ceiling fans use a surprising amount of electricity while moving air only slowly - diffuse breezes over wide areas that do not cool the person as effectively as a floor fan, since the ceiling fans mix hot air off the ceiling - raising the room temperature - while floor fans move cool air off the floor, concentrating air flow right at the user.

Ceiling fans made sense back in the 1920's and 1930's when electric motors were expensive and multiple fans would be run off a single long belt. Does it make sense to move the hot air off the ceiling or roof - making it seem cooler due to a little air movement while it raises the room temperature by bringing hot ceiling air or hot roof air down to the levels where people sit?

The 2 newer Mabe fridges we tested used 30% - 50% more energy than their LG (Korean) counterparts. Old GE & Whirlpool fridges use about 3X - 5X more energy in our measurements.

Big screen TVs can be real pigs, but we saw no noticeable differences between US sold models and Mexican sold models. Running a big screen TV (typically at 200W - 250W) for 5 hours would be like running the toaster or hair dryer non-stop for about an hour. (Which means that the hair dryer seems like an energy pig, but the TV likely uses a lot more electricity on a daily basis.)

I've posted our measurements in past Mexconnect posts if you want to compare. Also, here's a site with some basic values: http://michaelbluejay.com/...tricity/howmuch.html .
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Sep 26, 2011, 9:16 AM)

stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 9:48 AM

Post #23 of 72 (14885 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] electric

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I have had a Kill-A-Watt meter for years, since well before I moved here. The first thing that happens when a new appliance comes into the house is a check to see what it uses. My computer desk which is driven by a 380 amp hour UPS regulator (which uses 25W with nothing plugged in) uses 100W to power the weather station, small camera charging cradle, Dell Zino and monitor and XM radio all of which runs 24/7 for the most part. The TV stereo stack uses another 100 for the TV, 100 for the home theater (normally only one is on) and a regulator at 4 watts. I have all this plugged into the regulator which is switched by an X10 switch. The ShawDirect receiver uses 24 watts on or off, so when I end the day I hit one button and it all gets cut off. The security system also uses about 10 watts.

I've got a couple of small spots on art objects using 1 watt LED spots. The real killer is the pool (which I never use) which must circulate water 3 hrs a day at 3 KWH per day. My total load with security lighting etc. is about 14KWH per day so you can guess how big the CFE's smile is each month.

The problem I have is that, as stated, the CFE is 4th highest in the world, how can so many others generate electricity for so much less - and do it on a very consistent basis - and it's clean power not burning out appliances including regulators? In TX I used 4 times as much and paid about the same or less and only twice in 22 years was the power out.

RickS

Sep 26, 2011, 10:22 AM

Post #24 of 72 (14871 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] electric

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"....how can so many others generate electricity for so much less - and do it on a very consistent basis?"

A rhetorical question to which you already know the answer ;>)

stevebrtx

Sep 26, 2011, 10:48 AM

Post #25 of 72 (14860 views)

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Re: [RickS] electric

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Ah yes, 'tis a privilege to live in MX (except once every two months).

Ok, I'm going to chuck this out in the middle of the floor here and see what falls out. I get a reasonable number of inquiries through the weather site and my blog from people wanting to know "about Mexico" what does it cost etc. I developed what you might call "the Mexican rule of cost". It's simply that the things an average working class Mexican need and buy are cheap, in many cases surprisingly cheap, but if it's something a gringo wants, "needs" or uses, it's going to cost a whole lot more.

We all live with that daily; beans? - cheap, Campbell's P&B's - very pricey. A wireless router Mfg list price $40 (available NOB Amazon $30 including shipping) in MX, about $60USD equivalent pesos. Mexicans don't need wireless routers and they don't need or use much electricity. Think about it, more often than not the "rule" applies.

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