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landon5123

Aug 26, 2011, 9:03 AM

Post #1 of 31 (1955 views)

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Disputing CFE Bill

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I have searched in vain for info on this because I can't believe I'm the first to have this problem. Like many newcomers to Mexico, 4 years ago we didn't pay attention to our consumption of electricity, using A/C way too often and consequently got the Gringo rate on all subsequent bills. We have "bit the bullet" and tried to change our evil ways, but have been unable to slip below the threshold. Nonetheless, our bills have been tolerable. 4 months ago, even with decreased usage, our bill was twice the amount from the same period of the previous year. After disputing it at the CFE office, a technician came to our home and tested the meter and determined it was working correctly. We had no choice but to pay.

The next two months, our usage was below the previous year (although the rate had gone up). These last two months, in spite of the heat, we have not used our A/C at all unlike previous years. We have cut our use of fans considerably. Consequently, we were expecting a lower than previous year bill. What we got was a bill THREE TIMES the amount of any previous bill!

The amount of the bill is basically our entire monthly budget for living. Needless to say, I have to find out what my options are to dispute this bill. Today I will be going to CFE with the gentleman who built this house. He is going to inspect the electrical system, switch box/circuit breakers, meter etc. and we will notate the current settings on the meter. However, I fully expect CFE to tell me the problem is mine and that I have to pay this outrageous bill.

Any ideas on how to dispute this properly?

Bennie García

Aug 26, 2011, 9:10 AM

Post #2 of 31 (1938 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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I we didn't pay attention to our consumption of electricity, using A/C way too often and consequently got the Gringo rate on all subsequent bills.

Please, "gringo rate" ? This type insidious racism is disgusting. The rate is called DAC and the computer has no idea of the customer's ethnicicity.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Aug 26, 2011, 9:16 AM)

landon5123

Aug 26, 2011, 9:18 AM

Post #3 of 31 (1926 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Disputing CFE Bill

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Sorry, guilty as charged. Simply wanted to indicate that like many immigrants from the north, I was clueless.

joaquinx

Aug 26, 2011, 9:22 AM

Post #4 of 31 (1921 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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Your checking the wiring because the meter reading is higher than last year? From what you stated, the meter reading is lower. Are your rates higher? If the meter readings are lower, the wiring shouldn't make any difference. It's the rate.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

Bennie García

Aug 26, 2011, 9:22 AM

Post #5 of 31 (1918 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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Your response shows true sincerity and you deserve a free pass on this one. Many around here won't acknowledge their mistakes. Thanks for your honesty.

landon5123

Aug 26, 2011, 9:25 AM

Post #6 of 31 (1912 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Disputing CFE Bill

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The meter reading is 3 times any previous reading. We are checking the "system" as a preventive strike knowing that CFE will try to put the onus back on us.

joaquinx

Aug 26, 2011, 9:32 AM

Post #7 of 31 (1908 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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Wow!! I guess that you have turned off every electrical device to check is there is some type of shorting or seeing which device is the offender. Best of luck in resolving this problem.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

Goyo

Aug 26, 2011, 10:19 AM

Post #8 of 31 (1897 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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Have you tracked your meter readings? Sometimes the readers are slackers and don't truly read the meters; they just report a number. Then, later, an actual reading takes place and the billing catches up. The bill can go up, or down. This is almost like a reset. The problem is that the interim readings may have over or under charged based on incorrect 'numbers' (not true readings). Go back over the entire history to see how accurate it might be. CFE has all the data on hand. Also, on the 'gringo rate' matter... please also consider that the first tier charges are subsidized for everyone, not just Mexicans, so what would that rate be called; the 'welfare rate'. Do you think of yourself on welfare? The upper tier could be considered a gringo rate since many gringos in Mex will often be less conservative in use and have more energy consuming items in their houses.

Another thing to consider is how your meter is set up. Depending on your house situation there may be a way to split to more than one meter. This will give each meter a subsidized base rate and lower use per per meter making it easier to stay below the highest rates on each meter. I have heard of guest houses, rental units and swimming pools put on separate meters from the main house.

A sure way to keep your bill down is do what many Mexicans do... use less. Also, check to see if it is possible someone has been stealing power from you... not all that unusual.

bournemouth

Aug 26, 2011, 10:31 AM

Post #9 of 31 (1890 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Disputing CFE Bill

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Berry - I have to tell you that a good Mexican friend from Tonala is convinced that "gringos" in the Chapala area pay more for their power. This was not a subject that I brought up - she did. So the "racism" can come from either side, no?

landon5123

Aug 26, 2011, 10:38 AM

Post #10 of 31 (1889 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Disputing CFE Bill

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I have created a spreadsheet for the previous 4 years of billing. The "trends" you would expect are evident; higher usage during summer, etc. And each year as the rates go up, so does the corresponding bill compared with the previous equivalent period. There are periods where our kWh is lower than the previous years, others where higher, but they all are fairly consistent until 4 months ago and again now.

I would prefer that responses to this thread address my original question, namely what are my options in disputing this ridiculous bill. All the electrical education in nice but I'm between a rock and a hard place, bill due in a little over a week.

Thanks all.
Landon

eyePad

Aug 26, 2011, 10:54 AM

Post #11 of 31 (1885 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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I had a similar problem and ended up disconnecting service for a while. Then I reconnected and am much happier, at least for now. We shall see.
apáñatelas como puedas

Bennie García

Aug 26, 2011, 11:08 AM

Post #12 of 31 (1875 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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Take all of your past bills into the local CFE office along with a current meter reading. Also record the usage between the date the meter was last read and the day you visit the CFE. Check your daily average. See how that compares to the one on your latest bill. You need to be able to show an error on their part. If you have something running to ground or some other situation that is causing higher consumption, you're screwed.

mazbook1

Aug 26, 2011, 11:46 AM

Post #13 of 31 (1857 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Disputing CFE Bill

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joaquinx, Your suggestion is the best on the thread! Turn off (unplug!) EVERY electrical item in the house, one by one, and find out if the problem lies in your house. If after everything is unplugged and all light switches are turned off, the meter is still turning you have the NOT UNCOMMON problem of someone (a neighbor) piggybacking their electricity from your meter. If this is the case, notify CFE and have them come out to find who is stealing your electricity. You might want to have YOUR electrician there when they are there.

Bennie García

Aug 26, 2011, 11:52 AM

Post #14 of 31 (1852 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Disputing CFE Bill

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It isn't necessarily someone tapping your line, which is easy to detect. Throw the main cut off that should have been installed near the meter. Then if the clock is ticking, someone has tapped your meter. But you may have a short somewhere, like maybe a hot lead touching a neutral wire or something grounding out such as a a hot touching rebar within the wall.

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Aug 26, 2011, 12:56 PM)

rockydog85251

Aug 26, 2011, 3:58 PM

Post #15 of 31 (1798 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Disputing CFE Bill

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We too were getting prepared to go do battle with CFE over our EXCEEDINGLY high bills. We were using less & less KWH, the rate was going up just a bit, but our bills were running over $2,000mx for a 2 mo period. We have no ceiling fans and no a/c here....are very careful to turn out lights, only run 1 refrigerator, have no clothes dryer, no dishwasher, etc Then lo and behold: The bill arrived for the most recent 2 month period, to the tune of a paltry $114 mx!!!!!!! Now the front part of our house which is over 100 yrs old, is still on the old "shotgun" type fuses and the back part which is 70 yrs old, is on breakers.
Your comment about something grounding to something, not sure of the terms or even what it means but we were beginning to think that something must be crossed somewhere. But now we are totally confused about the bill.........I don't whether to let the sleeping dog lie & assume that this is a correction for mis-reading/estimating the prior usage or pursue it further.
I think I will just wait for the billing in Oct. to see what happens next. Maybe the OP should wait for his next bill.....
Unless someone has some other ideas/suggestions?
Willie

DavidHF

Aug 26, 2011, 4:02 PM

Post #16 of 31 (1797 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Disputing CFE Bill

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The most common reasons for billing errors are incorrect meter reading and estimated readings. When you go to CFE take a close-up photo of your meter or take a reading yourself if you know how.

morgaine7

Aug 26, 2011, 4:37 PM

Post #17 of 31 (1785 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Disputing CFE Bill

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The CFE website has instructions for reading the meter, including examples and practice exercises.
http://www.cfe.gob.mx/...Comoleermedidor.aspx
They misread my meter once, and when I went to the office they were very happy that I'd brought my own reading, so I'll ditto that advice.

Kate

salto_jorge

Aug 26, 2011, 5:26 PM

Post #18 of 31 (1770 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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We had a high bill and fine that we could not get out of.
CFE claimed that we put a bypass wire on our side of the meter, thus the fine.
To this day we do not know who or how the bypass worked, unless an electrician running a the feed from the meter to the house did it

On a regular basis we flip the main breaker in the house thus disconnecting both sides of the power feed and check for others using our meter.
Since we are now trying to lower our bill we are turning off things that are not needed.
Our electrician suggested that the design of our fresh water system using two water pumps could be a major power user, one of the pumps seemed to be on a lot of the time. Based on that we had the system changed, we now have only one pump.

Next we also purchased an electric socket test to look for bad wiring.
Although the wiring is new, we found hot or neutral to ground in different parts of the house and had that fixed.

Lastly CFE changed the name on the account after we paid the fine so we could start over.
CFE indicated they are now watching it and will let us know if they see anything that is not normal.

When the next CFE bill arrives we could be happy or shocked.

joaquinx

Aug 27, 2011, 5:51 AM

Post #19 of 31 (1713 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Disputing CFE Bill

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In Reply To

The most common reasons for billing errors are incorrect meter reading and estimated readings. When you go to CFE take a close-up photo of your meter or take a reading yourself if you know how.

You can always compare your CFE bill to the meter. I was misread once(the meter that is). I put down the current meter reading and took it to CFE. I paid based on my reading.

CFE in my area, Xalapa, is in the process of changing mechanical meters to digital ones. I believe that these will be read by some type of digital device rather than the human eye. Anyone have more information on this change.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

Rolly

Aug 27, 2011, 6:23 AM

Post #20 of 31 (1704 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Disputing CFE Bill

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The major advantage of most digital meter systems is that the meter can be read directly by the billing computer; no human meter reader is required. The data is transmitted over the power lines.

Rolly Pirate

Marlene

Aug 27, 2011, 10:31 AM

Post #21 of 31 (1648 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Disputing CFE Bill

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That's an interesting point. They have digital meters in some areas of Mazatlan, and yet there are still wild readings being made and attributed to human (meter reader) error. We have just had the opportunity to tackle this situation head on, and it's a week of our lives we can never get back!

They assigned two separate inspectors, one for checking the meter and one to verify the house has been vacant, and then scheduled an office visit. Lots of phone calls to phone numbers they provided, which turn out to be the wrong person, and all kinds of fun. The end result is they insist that the electricity was used (at some point) and acknowledge it was their employee error for the delay in reporting it. But it still has to be paid.

One inspector suggested to us that the renters may have paid their employee to grossly under-estimate (while running all the a/c's 24/7) This is plausible, yet immaterial to them because it cannot be proven. The person in charge of these things, and in the last step of the investigation, stated she can see where the reading wasn't realistic a couple of months back. (Hello?) The tenant is now long gone back to Canada leaving quite a mess behind. The last electric bill seemed low at only $590 pesos (but included the gov't subsidy) and was paid after they left. The house has been empty for the latest billing period, and along comes a 20,809.00 peso bill, and DAC rating! That bill is so unbelievable that the first assumption is a major meter malfunction, since the electricity recorded is about half a years allowance on the 1D tariff!

After all this, the most they will do is provide the home owner with a payment plan of 4 equal months of 5200.00 pesos in addition to whatever electricity is used, of course. The first 5200 is payable immediately, to prevent disconnection. The bill showing 5200 paid, along with the authorizing signature, needs to be taped to the meter so they will not cut off the electricity. So much for technology (and sanity).

(This post was edited by Marlene on Aug 27, 2011, 10:34 AM)

johanson

Aug 27, 2011, 11:42 AM

Post #22 of 31 (1632 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Disputing CFE Bill

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As I drive out each morning for breakfast, I, while sitting in my car, read my digital CFE meter. I use all three phases but have only two readings. The first shows the total amount I draw from the grid and the second shows how much excess electricity I sell back to CFE. My bill for the last 2 month period was $79 pesos, the previous amount due for the previous two months was $85 pesos.

Yes, I'm bragging about my photo voltaic solar system. But I know how much electricity I use each day, and even if I checked once per week, I would know if there was a problem. One time when I checked my CFE bill on line, you get the results there, before the bill is delivered to your house. I saw a large error. I went out doors, took a picture of my meter showing that the meter reader had made an error, I went to the CFE with the picture and the problem was corrected.

Now most folks aren't going to read their meters all of the time or know how much power they use each day, and I understand that. But were you to check occasionally and if you knew about what the meter should read, you would be much better off when it was time to fight with CFE.

DavidHF

Aug 27, 2011, 3:32 PM

Post #23 of 31 (1601 views)

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Re: [johanson] Disputing CFE Bill

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Folks such as Pete and me have digital meters and meters that are replaced for whatever reason are now digital here at lakeside. However they are still being read my CFE employees. While the technology may allow for electronic reading it's not in place yet here thus the opportunity for human error.

(This post was edited by DavidHF on Aug 27, 2011, 5:49 PM)

raferguson

Aug 28, 2011, 7:39 PM

Post #24 of 31 (1480 views)

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Re: [landon5123] Disputing CFE Bill

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The best suggestions that I heard here were the following:

1. Shutting off breakers and see if the meter still spins. Try that at 3 in the afternoon when every AC in the neighborhood is on. A variation on that theme is to unplug everything in the house and leave the breakers on. That might identify if somebody had tapped into your electric circuit downstream of the breaker, or if you had some very strange short or other unidentified load. Another variation is to turn off everything but leave it plugged in.

2. Checking the meter every week or even every day, and writing down the results.

There is something called a Kill-a-watt which measures watt-hour usage on 120 volt appliances. You can use this on appliances one at a time and get a sense of watt-hour consumption on anything in your home. Might be a smart investment if you are having power problems.

On a somewhat related topic, we had a $1000 US water bill at my mom's house. The plumber came out, could find nothing wrong. It happened again, we brought out a different plumber, he found a leak between the meter and the house. The water company was not amenable to adjusting the bill. Applying that story to your case, maybe you need another electrician to look over the system, especially if electricity is not your strong point.

Ultimately, you have to find and fix the problem yourself. Protesting to the utility is going to have limited or zero success.

Good luck,
Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

Rolly

Aug 28, 2011, 8:30 PM

Post #25 of 31 (1469 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Disputing CFE Bill

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"Another variation is to turn off everything but leave it plugged in. "

Unplugging everything is better because some things draw a little power ever when off.

Rolly Pirate

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