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dongringo_catemaco

Jul 30, 2011, 3:57 AM

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A million gringos

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I keep reading about a million gringos living in Mexico, and keep scratching my head about where they are all hiding.
Presuming that all foreigners in Mexico have a Visa, I come up with a figure considerably less.

In 2010, Mexican immigration reported 64,399 residency visas (FM2&3) issued and renewed to what they call North Americans: US, Canada & Bermuda. About 18% were issued to Canadians.

Of course there are the 6 month border trekkers on tourist visas. How many? Anyone's guess! Maybe 50 thousand in Baja and another 100 thousand in the rest of Mexico. And then, of course there are the snowbirds who show up for 3-4 months. Make them another 100 thousand.

Where are the other 600,000 hiding?

I can't line up the statistics here. You can see them at:
http://catemaconews.blogspot.com/2011/07/million-gringos.html

DavidHF

Jul 30, 2011, 5:15 AM

Post #2 of 45 (2111 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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I have no idea where that figure came from although one hears it often. I do think it's 1 Million Foreigners not gringos. Even so, that seems a number that's hard to believe.

Axixic

Jul 30, 2011, 5:57 AM

Post #3 of 45 (2093 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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Are you counting foreigners who became Mexican citizens and Mexican citizens who are also U.S. citizens?

http://geo-mexico.com/?p=4031

Quote

Foreigners are defined as individuals born in another country, but residing in Mexico. According to the recent census, almost a million (961,121) foreigners were living in Mexico in mid-2010. In 2000 there were only about half as many (492,617). Among foreigners, there were slightly more males than females (50.6% versus 49.4%). Under this definition, children born in the USA of two Mexican parents are considered foreigners if they currently live in Mexico. Unfortunately, the data currently available do not enable us to separate these foreign-born Mexicans from other foreigners who were raised in other countries and moved to Mexico to follow their professions or retire. Furthermore, they do not help us answer a question we have been asked dozens of times in recent years, namely, “How many Canadians and how many Americans have retired in Mexico?”

Though almost a million foreigners sounds like an impressive number, Mexico has relatively few foreign born residents compared to its two northern neighbors. Foreigners constitute only 0.86% of the 2010 Mexican population, compared to 21% Canada and 13% in the USA.

Where in Mexico do most foreigners reside? Baja California has the most foreigners with almost 123,000, followed by Jalisco (84,000), Chihuahua (80,000), and the Federal District (72,000). Tlaxcala has the fewest, with just over 3,200, followed by Tabasco with about 4,500.

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jul 30, 2011, 9:27 AM)

dongringo_catemaco

Jul 30, 2011, 7:24 AM

Post #4 of 45 (2053 views)

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Re: [Axixic] A million gringos

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Obviously Mexican citizens hold no visas.

Total visa holders in 2010 are reported as 205,074 of which 31.4 % are US and Canadians.

If I apply the 31.4% to the now million+ supposed foreigners after 2010, that would produce about 320 thousand and I`ll still be more than 600 thousand gringo residents short. .
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dongringo_catemaco

Jul 30, 2011, 7:37 AM

Post #5 of 45 (2045 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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Here's the real doozle:

"In addition, a million American citizens live in Mexico"
US Dept. of State
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35749.htm
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morgaine7

Jul 30, 2011, 7:45 AM

Post #6 of 45 (2040 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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Here's a table from the 2010 census that shows a breakdown by state.
http://www.inegi.org.mx/...mp;s=est&c=23635
I don't know for sure, but it's hard to imagine that they would count snowbirds, vacationers, or other visitors as "residente en Mexico". In Baja California Sur, the census was taken in late June/July when few of those folks are around anyhow. The 6,438 figure seems about right to me for BCS, which is the least populated state in Mexico with a total population of only 637,026.

Kate

arbon

Jul 30, 2011, 9:07 AM

Post #7 of 45 (2003 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

In Reply To

Here's the real doozle:

"In addition, a million American citizens live in Mexico"
US Dept. of State
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35749.htm

Where does the US Dept. of State actually say that on their site.
"a million American citizens live in Mexico"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tonyburton / Moderator

Jul 30, 2011, 9:37 AM

Post #8 of 45 (1989 views)

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Re: [arbon] A million gringos

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"The scope of U.S.-Mexican relations goes far beyond diplomatic and official contacts; it entails extensive commercial, cultural, and educational ties, as demonstrated by the annual figure of about a million legal border crossings a day. In addition, a million American citizens live in Mexico" (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35749.htm)[my emphasis]

The figure for citizens will include those holding joint Mexican-USA citizenship (some of whom were born in Mexico), but still sounds high.

arbon

Jul 30, 2011, 10:00 AM

Post #9 of 45 (1977 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] A million gringos

Thanks Tony, I used (Ctrl+F) and still missed it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

joaquinx

Jul 30, 2011, 11:14 AM

Post #10 of 45 (1955 views)

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In Reply To

Thanks Tony, I used (Ctrl+F) and still missed it.

Do a find on "American". It's there.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

esperanza

Jul 30, 2011, 11:36 AM

Post #11 of 45 (1941 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] A million gringos

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When many of us think about the presence of American citizens in Mexico, our minds automatically turn to retirees. IMHO, there are many, many more non-retirement-age Americans working in Mexico (for Mexican or foreign companies) than we know. The population of American retirees is relatively small--at least when compared to the quoted count of a million.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

eyePad

Jul 30, 2011, 12:29 PM

Post #12 of 45 (1928 views)

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Re: [esperanza] A million gringos

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Companies in Mexico employing Americans provide Visas, often FM3. This certainly includes maquilas, auto plants, pharmaceuticals, sales offices, etc These people are already counted in the relatively low numbers reported. There'd have to be a LOT of scammed english teachers to make up the difference -not sure Dept of State would know about them anyway.
apáñatelas como puedas

La Isla

Jul 30, 2011, 4:26 PM

Post #13 of 45 (1885 views)

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Re: [eyePad] A million gringos

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There'd have to be a LOT of scammed english teachers to make up the difference -not sure Dept of State would know about them anyway.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "scammed english teachers" but speaking as one of many foreign English teachers working in Mexico legally, I have the feeling I should be insulted by your characterization of us.

frito

Jul 30, 2011, 4:39 PM

Post #14 of 45 (1881 views)

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Re: [esperanza] A million gringos

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When I hear the word American I'm guilty of thinking of White people. But what about all the Mexican-American citizens who live in border areas on the Mexican side? And probably quite a few of them are living all over Mexico.

richmx2

Jul 30, 2011, 10:24 PM

Post #15 of 45 (1785 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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What qualifies as "living in Mexico" exactly? The million figure sounds more than right to me (and maybe even a bit low)... the individuals may be different from day to day, but on any given day, a million foreigners are both "living" and "in Mexico" (i.e., tourists, visitors and those in transit).

Even a million U.S. citizens doesn't sound that unbelievable... you seem to assume that because a person considers themselves a Mexican citizen, or the Mexican government considers them a citizen, that the U.S. State Department is going to consider them a Mexican and not a U.S. citizen. And, there are a lot more undocumented gringos than one would assume.

None of which means the state department didn't just pull the figures off something they read (or misread) on the internet and ran with it.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

dongringo_catemaco

Jul 30, 2011, 11:27 PM

Post #16 of 45 (1778 views)

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Re: [richmx2] A million gringos

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The point of the post was gringos living in Mexico, not foreigners.

I would qualify "living" as being a resident, implying an owned or rented home.
"IN" on the other hand includes crews of narco submarines passing by the coast, hordes of foreign tourists disembarking in Cancun, and any Central Americans riding the rails through Chiapas and Veracruz to get to the US border.

Of course, at any one time there are millions of foreigners present in Mexico. That does not, at least to me, mean that they live here.

Undocumented gringos are mostly in the border states. I lived in Baja for 2 years, ran a business, "owned" a house and never learned to spell VISA. But I doubt that I and others similar were more than a droplet in potential Mexican residency figures.

In my opinion, the US state department has extremely limited credibility, no worse, though, than Mexican statistical agencies.

Incidentally, I tried unsuccessfully to get a handle on foreign residents through INEGI. Although I know that they asked me about my place of birth in the last census, there is no category of foreign born in their published statistics. Instead, using their figures of borne in the "entidad" (implying state) and not borne there categories, I wound up with about 4 million residents that either don't know where they were borne, or did not fit the "entidad" profile. I was surprised to read the foreign breakdown mentioned in a previous post.

Anyway, I think that most who publish or defend the high figures of gringo residents in Mexico have ulterior motives, mostly related to personal gains.
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esperanza

Jul 31, 2011, 7:24 AM

Post #17 of 45 (1740 views)

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Re: [frito] A million gringos

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Excuse me, white people?? Americans, if I recall correctly, come in all skin colors. Frito, surely you did not mean to sound as racist as you did.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

frito

Jul 31, 2011, 7:56 AM

Post #18 of 45 (1725 views)

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Re: [esperanza] A million gringos

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Excuse me, white people?? Americans, if I recall correctly, come in all skin colors. Frito, surely you did not mean to sound as racist as you did.

No more than you when you associate the word "gringo" with a certain group, LOL. Let's be honest, when many of us read that the State Dept. says there are a million Americans living in Mexico we think of a large group of older white Americans. I was just trying, if ineptly, to point out many if not most are probably Mexican-Americans. Which would explain why some are looking around and wondering where are all these white folk who are supposed to be here? I've lived in 3 places on the border, am half Cherokee, and have Mexican-American cousins by the way. Hope that makes me eligible to make an observation...

tonyburton / Moderator

Jul 31, 2011, 8:54 AM

Post #19 of 45 (1701 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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The census does list the number "born in the USA", but then groups other countries of birth together, at least in the basic tables.
738,103 people in the 2010 census are recorded as "born in the USA but living in Mexico".
As explained previously, many of these individuals will consider themselves Mexican, regardless of having been born in the USA.
See:
http://www3.inegi.org.mx/...02&s=est&f=1
and
http://www3.inegi.org.mx/...02&s=est&f=1
which are Microsoft Works spreadsheets.

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jul 31, 2011, 8:59 AM)

esperanza

Jul 31, 2011, 9:55 AM

Post #20 of 45 (1671 views)

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Re: [frito] A million gringos

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No more than you when you associate the word "gringo" with a certain group...

Sorry, frito, that is not a word I use. Ever.

And know a number of American citizens living in Mexico who are not "white people", no matter what their age.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

dongringo_catemaco

Jul 31, 2011, 10:14 AM

Post #21 of 45 (1659 views)

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Re: [esperanza] A million gringos

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lighten up!
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esperanza

Jul 31, 2011, 10:21 AM

Post #22 of 45 (1654 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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Sorry, dongringo, but I have zero tolerance for the use of phrases like "white people" in this sort of context. "Lightening up" would pretty much indicate that I tolerate this usage--and I don't tolerate it, and believe that it's important to say that I don't tolerate it. If I were the moderator on this particular forum, I would delete frito's post for inappropriate content.

And I think everyone here on Mexconnect already knows my position on the use of 'gringo', so I see no need to elaborate on that.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

dongringo_catemaco

Jul 31, 2011, 10:51 AM

Post #23 of 45 (1639 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] A million gringos

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Tony - I'm learning something new every day.
I downloaded the entire census and its 186 categories and none included these subsidiary censuses that are now popping up. http://www.inegi.org.mx/sistemas/consulta_resultados/iter2010.aspx?c=27329&s=est

With these new figures it's pretty obvious and now official, that nowhere near a million "gringos" or "Americans" live in the United Mexican States.

I suspect the embassy surveyed the people passing by its offices on Paseo de la Reforma and counted all the white appearing people, ignoring that most of the Mexican elite would pass unnoticed in South Dakota.
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RickS

Jul 31, 2011, 11:42 AM

Post #24 of 45 (1622 views)

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Re: [esperanza] A million gringos

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Frito said, "When I hear the word American I'm guilty of thinking of White people."
esperanza said, " ....Frito, surely you did not mean to sound as Racist as you did.
esperanza said, "I have zero tolerance for the use of phrases like "white people" in this sort of context.
esperanza also said, "If I were the moderator on this particular forum, I would delete frito's post for inappropriate
content."

OK, time for another opinion.....

I am almost sure that frito did not mean anything racist when he admitted that his first, knee jerk reaction to the word American is to think of 'white' people. Because you have an opinion, and zero tolerance of using the word white people in this context, you have come close to labeling frito, a person that I suspect you don't even know, as racist. I have a problem with that. But what I most object to is that you, based on your tolerances or lack thereof, would summarily delete his post from the forum if you were the moderator.

I understand that you must have some 'powers' granted to you by the jefe by which you can 'moderate'. But I (another opinion) don't think your power in this case would/could or should extend to deleting what I consider to be a non-racist and non-mean spirited use of the phrase 'white people'. Frito has rights also, and I don't believe his post was outside of what is prescribed by the rules and regs of Mexconnect.

tonyburton / Moderator

Jul 31, 2011, 12:06 PM

Post #25 of 45 (1613 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] A million gringos

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"With these new figures it's pretty obvious and now official, that nowhere near a million "gringos" or "Americans" live in the United Mexican States."

That may be your conclusion, but it isn't mine! The data are murky at best. As I've tried to suggest earlier, many of those "born in the USA" would consider themselves Mexican before American (where American= USA-ian); equally some people born in Mexico may consider themselves "American" or "Canadian" or whatever. Could there be 200,000-300,000 in that category? If so, the State Dept. figure could be correct.

Bottom line: I don't know where the US State Dept got its figure of a million, but (at least to my mind) nothing posted so far on this thread negates the possibility that it is more or less correct.

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