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Charley Varrick

Jul 20, 2011, 9:24 AM

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Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Can I just disappear in Mexico? You know just mind my own business and live among others who mind their own business?

I've asked this on other forums and gotten a lot of flak. My user name is a title character in a film I like that's it. I'm not trying to avoid any family court obligations like alimony or child support. I am not asking anyone to help me break any laws.

I want out of the US. My credit is shot and so are my prospects. I apply for job after job but lose out to younger candidates (I'm middle aged.) Most of all I don't like being judged a failure by others here.

If I go to Mexico I will try to ignore their rules about visa and length of stay, and I will try to teach English off the books. Other than that I will not do anything like use or deal dope or rob or steal or anything else that hurts people.

If you have experience living in Mexico I'd like to hear from you. Do you ever get asked for your Social Security number or subjected to any background or credit checks by anybody in Mexico? How often do you get stopped by police while walking down the sidewalk or riding subway and asked for your passport? (I won't be driving a car.) Do you know anybody who moved down there to get away from up here? Did they do it the legal official way or did they get away with doing what I want to do?

Thank you for your consideration.

esperanza

Jul 20, 2011, 9:53 AM

Post #2 of 29 (1837 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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There's a saying about folks who move to Mexico: they're either wanted, or unwanted.

You are talking about becoming an illegal alien here. Some people get along that way, but I wouldn't recommend it.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

jrpierce

Jul 20, 2011, 10:24 AM

Post #3 of 29 (1822 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Unless you sneak across the US/Mexico border, there will be paperwork letting both countries know you came here. With all the surveillance at the border these days, and with cartels paying very close attention to activity on the border, besides being illegal it is extremely dangerous. On the other hand, if you do cross legally, once you overstay your legal period of residence, you will be in peril of arrest and deportation.

None of these are things I would want to do.

Jim

Rolly

Jul 20, 2011, 10:26 AM

Post #4 of 29 (1821 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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You are proposing to violate two laws that México considers important -- living here without a visa and working (teaching English) without a work permit. Either of these violations can result in your immediate deportation.

Band idea. Forget it.

Rolly Pirate

mazbook1

Jul 20, 2011, 10:27 AM

Post #5 of 29 (1819 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Many in fact do come to México to "disappear"—more in the past than in the present, I THINK—but most do it the legal way, I THINK. Naturally, as there is very little likelihood of being caught and deported as long as you aren't involved in the drug trade or other criminal activities, there are for sure those who either quietly become "illegal aliens" or who go to some border and get a new FMM tourist visa, thus circumventing the rules. As a matter of fact there is a popular country western song by Dick Damron, "Died And Gone to Mexico", that says it all. You can listen to it here: Click Here

I have no particular problem with those folks as long as they support themselves with money coming from a foreign country, BUT I and many others have serious problems with those who try to support themselves by WORKING ILLEGALLY and therefore, besides being illegal aliens, become TAX DODGERS and also possibly taking a job that a Mexican citizen or a legal foreign resident might have/want.

Come on down and "disappear", but do it the legal way! ¡Bienvenidos a México!

PS – In answer to all your questions "Do you ever get asked for your Social Security number or subjected to any background or credit checks by anybody in Mexico? How often do you get stopped by police while walking down the sidewalk or riding subway and asked for your passport? (I won't be driving a car.)" these things are VERY unlikely to happen to any foreigner living in México who avoids the criminal element.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Jul 20, 2011, 10:33 AM)

La Isla

Jul 20, 2011, 10:39 AM

Post #6 of 29 (1805 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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How often do you get stopped by police while walking down the sidewalk or riding subway and asked for your passport?

This has never happened to me, but it has happened to a friend of mine, a very respectable looking American guy in his forties. He came home one night around midnight and was about to open the door to our building, in a pleasant middle-class neighborhood in Mexico City, when a cop driving by on patrol got our of his car and asked my friend for ID. Luckily, he always carries his FM3 with him, so no problems for him.

Brian

Jul 20, 2011, 10:42 AM

Post #7 of 29 (1793 views)

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Your's is not an easy way but it is done by a lot of expats in the Tijuana/Rosarito area. Only immigration document you will actually need is a passport for whenever you cross back into the USA. Baja has most of the same rules as the interior of Mexico but they are largely observed in their breach.

YucaLandia

Jul 20, 2011, 11:02 AM

Post #8 of 29 (1784 views)

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What do trolls smell like?
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 20, 2011, 1:22 PM)

richmx2

Jul 20, 2011, 11:16 AM

Post #9 of 29 (1774 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Been there, done that, lost my shirt.

I wasn't planning to disappear (and never had any intention of doing so), but when I first moved here, it was for a job I took over the internet, which wasn't as advertised (and wasn't exactly suitable for me... teaching junior high: urrrgggg!) so moved to Mexico City before any paperwork was finished, and... ended up working as a peripatetic English teacher. Working a couple different jobs, I just never got my papers together to get legal, and ended up overstaying my tourist visa (which meant I wasn't supposed to be working anyway). Eventually, I did get legal, and am a "assimilated immigrant" now, but try not to turn into one of those people who says "well, I did it legally, so you should too."

Not out of any ethical considerations (one way or another, you end up paying taxes) but for practical ones, I don't recommend trying to become an illegal alien.

Do you have any qualifications to teach English, and are you better qualified than those who have legal working documents? They are your competitors, but at the same time, you need to be on good terms with them, because your employer will need someone´s tax ID number to record the payment, and you are often paid indirectly through the legal employee (on his or her honoraria... and even if they're your best bud, they'll expect you to pay their withholding taxes and some other expenses).

You might be paid via checks made out to "portador" (bearer), but you won't be able to deposit them, since you can't open a bank account, which means you'll have to go stand in line at whatever bank (and sometimes whatever branch) the employer uses.

If you are able to earn a decent, stable income...it's gonna be difficult to get an apartment, a telephone, etc. without the right papers. It's do-able, but it'd require a lot of networking (and with an apartment — since you wouldn't be able to get a "fiador" [bonding agent] to guarantee a lease, expect to pay two or three months in advance as deposit... or rent from some little old lady (or, as I did for a time, from a crazy European countess with a house full of cats).

Getting stopped by the police. Never happened to me, but ... one company I did work for (after I left) was getting targeted (probably because a rival firm dropped a peso with migra) and its employees were getting asked to show papers. Even using government medical services at a clinic, I was never asked for any legal documents, though of course, I wasn't able to get even IMSS.

But, as to asking about your past (or your U.S. credit history), or your social security number, or checking on your U.S. taxes... not gonna happen, and — unless you owe a lot of money to the Mafia (and I knew one foreign teacher who did, which is why he switched careers from selling real estate in Arizona to teaching English somewhere in another country, at one time, Mexico) or you just embezzled a few billion from Wall Street — no one in Mexico, even the authorities, is going to be concerned with your past.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

bournemouth

Jul 20, 2011, 11:28 AM

Post #10 of 29 (1765 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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I think that the OP is asking his question on multiple fora, waiting for the answer he wants - and as we don't seem prepared to tell him he can disappear, he will continue to ask.

cbviajero

Jul 20, 2011, 11:48 AM

Post #11 of 29 (1753 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Charley Varrick wasn't that Walter Mathou's character,good movie.How's your spanish,I can sympathize with your situation but I think it would be tough going for a middle aged gringo with no papers and no money in Mexico,has it been done, sure,was it easy I don't think so.Worst case scenario a little time in a mexican jail and deportation.With money you could probably disappear easily in Mexico,like they say(con dinero baile el perro).Good luck.

stevebrtx

Jul 20, 2011, 12:07 PM

Post #12 of 29 (1740 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Don't ask questions of people you not only don't know, but you have no idea their predilections - JUST DO IT if that's what you want to do and stop drawing a target on your forehead.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

salto_jorge

Jul 20, 2011, 12:43 PM

Post #13 of 29 (1729 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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I found this link that may help you out.

It has nothing to do with this forum or any of the users.

http://members.fortunecity.com/...andneverbefound.html

Happy reading

La Paz

Jul 20, 2011, 12:49 PM

Post #14 of 29 (1720 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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No you cannot. There are a lot of legal obligations that you, as a US citizen (presumed), carry with you no matter where you go. A couple for example would be that you will still be legally obligated to file annual taxes with the IRS every year, whether you have any taxable income or not, this next one doesn't sound like it would apply to you, but if you have $10K ot greater (equivalent USD) banked anywhere outside the USA, you're legally obligated to file a TDF 90-22.1 each year.

I know you don't want a lecture, but....my personal philosophy is that I'm a guest here; even after living here full-time for 12 years, & as such, I respect the laws & rules of my adopted country. I really resent it when my fellow countrymen, Canadians or any other foreigners come down here & think that the laws of the land do not apply to them. It's too easy for you to cross someone & if they file a complaint with INM & you're found to be here illegally, you can & will be immediately deported, forfeiting any & all possessions not on your person at the time you're picked up. If you're here legally, you'll have a chance to have your side of the situation heard & stand a better chance to fight deportation.

The arrogance of thinking you are above the law or they don't apply to you because this happens to be a foreign country is outside the scope of how my mind functions! When there are so many poverty-level people here, many of which are un- or under-employed, how can you justify to yourself that it's acceptable to take an under-the-table job & take money that a Mexican citizen could be earning? What do you plan on giving back to the community you hope to live in? Or would you just come across as an Ugly American & take?

Additionally, do you have any idea what pay scale is here? Are you aware that typically daily minimum wage is roughly $5 USD equivalent), and no that's not a typo, DAILY minimum, not hourly! Of course it varies from one part of Mexico to another, but if you sincerely believe that you could afford to live off what you could earn teaching English, think again! Do you have any teaching experience? What makes you think that you'd be qualified to teach English? I suppose there are parts of Mexico you could still get by on the equivalent of $750-$1,000 USD a month, but you'd have a really tough time paying rent, electricity, gas (LP for cooking/ etc.), food, medical & whatever other monthly expenses you'd incur on the unrealistic expectation of teaching English under-the-table. So what's your back-up plan when you can't afford to live down here illegally? Where do you go then?

You don't plan on having a car....so I take it that you'd be flying in?? Are you aware that your are required by law to have a valid US Passport & that you will not be allowed to board any international flight without it? And on the flight into Mexico you will be issued a tourist visa valid for up to 180-days? The days of Mexico not tracking things online is a rapidly diminishing occurrence. They DO track this stuff online now. Upon arrival at your destination airport in Mexico, you will be required to clear Customs & Immigration.

IMO, you ARE looking for ways to enter & live & earn money in Mexico illegally. You're coming to the wrong place, the wrong group of people, hoping we'll aid & abet you! Most ex-pats do respect & adhere to the laws, rules & regulations of their adopted country & most will resent your asking for help to slip under the radar. But don't believe me....go post this again on 10 other Mexican forum sites & see if you'll find anyone who will encourage you in your present scheme!

Your plan is ill-formed, ill-advised & doomed to failure. But that's just MY opinion, based on over 12 years experience in living here legally & seeing what happens when foreign visitors attempt to circumvent the laws of the land.

PS I started this earlier before there were any responses, but had to leave, so please forgive any redundancy of other poster's thoughts....when I began, it really was a "clean slate". ;)

karenanron

Jul 20, 2011, 12:54 PM

Post #15 of 29 (1712 views)

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Re: [La Paz] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Very well put la Paz!

cbviajero

Jul 20, 2011, 2:23 PM

Post #16 of 29 (1680 views)

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Re: [La Paz] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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IMO your reply seems a bit harsh,I'm from LA where there are about a gazillion (undocumented aliens) from all over the globe but mostly from Mexico,they are just trying to improve their lives and I don't hold it against them,so I say turnabout is fair play.

joaquinx

Jul 20, 2011, 2:45 PM

Post #17 of 29 (1663 views)

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More here http://www.expatforum.com/...isappear-mexico.html
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

stevebrtx

Jul 20, 2011, 3:27 PM

Post #18 of 29 (1650 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Often there is a catalyst to cause a reaction resulting in a final "product". And this person has inadvertently swerved into exactly the reason I'm happily living here in Mexico today.

In March of '06 I pulled the plug on my career and went home. Of course I knew I had to sell my house and move someplace, like I always tell my Mother when she asks why I live in MX - "we all have to live somewhere". In early April, the 6th to be precise, my friend George called all upset about the illegal immigration problems flaring at that time. In jest I said "George don't you remember what they told us when we were kids? - don't get mad, get even! They all want to move up here (TX) get even, move down there" and we chuckled.

But, just as a lark I keyed in "retire in MX" and today I'm approaching the 4 year mark. There was/is no one more surprised than me to see me resident in MX, it was absolutely never ever on my list of intentions to live out of country and especially in MX.

However, it's vastly different than the joke that started it, I'm here legally, I contribute significant monies to MX etc., but sometimes a simple thing becomes the catalyst.

Life is like a rack of clothes, try things on, if it fits you and you look good in it, wear it.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

La Paz

Jul 20, 2011, 3:33 PM

Post #19 of 29 (1647 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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In Reply To

Quote

cbviajero
IMO your reply seems a bit harsh,I'm from LA where there are about a gazillion (undocumented aliens) from all over the globe but mostly from Mexico,they are just trying to improve their lives and I don't hold it against them,so I say turnabout is fair play.

While I respect your right to your own opinion, IMO, that's a totally different issue. That's the USA & they have their own set of laws to deal....or not, as the case may be....with illegals. And you could hardly have missed the fact that it's a highly inflammatory issue with both the public & the media. This issue is regarding Mexico....different country, different culture, different laws. How the USA deals with illegals is not at issue in this thread.

In all honesty, I can appreciate why the majority of illegals are in the USA & like you, I don't hold their presence there against them....what I DO hold against them is that they're there ILLEGALLY. IMO, they could improve their lives even more without having to live in fear & frequently being forced to live without their families, if they were truly & legally part of the system.

I totally disagree with your position that "turnabout is fair play"....two wrongs don't make a right!!

If this were a perfect world & you had a voice that would actually make a difference, which would you prefer....the totally out of hand uncontrolled & uncontrollable situation that exists in your home town & our country today....OR....people of any country of birth living openly, honestly & legally; being able to earn the same wages & benefits offered the US citizen they work alongside of, contributing to the system that supports them by paying taxes into that system, without fear of reprisal or deportation? You must realize that illegals are a drain on the local, state & federal tax base, employer taxes paid & benefits offered to employees. Illegals typically drive illegally (more money never making it's way into the system), without insurance (no wonder CA is in the financial shape it's in!)

For these (totally-incomplete-tip-of-the-iceberg) reasons alone, no, I don't believe I'm being harsh on the OP. It may have something to do with the era I was raised in or the morals I developed, but I ended up with a strong sense of right & wrong & I live by it....where it trips me up is that I have an inherent expectation that my fellow man of all nationalities will live by it as well.

(This post was edited by La Paz on Jul 20, 2011, 3:44 PM)

karenanron

Jul 20, 2011, 4:34 PM

Post #20 of 29 (1623 views)

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Re: [La Paz] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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cbviajero, I have nothing against illegals, but I do have a beef when they have babies here in the US. Now these babies are citizens and now they get food stamps, welfare, housing, medical and the list goes on. We can't go into an ER for treatment because it's full of people with their kids who only have a runny nose. THAT sir, is where I have a problem. For me to live in Mexico I have to prove I have sufficient income. I have no problem with that. Good on Mexico. But I'm tired of paying to support illegals in the US. I will never be a burden on Mexico. Illegals can't say the same thing about living in the US. There, I'm done with my temper tantrum.

(This post was edited by karenanron on Jul 20, 2011, 5:01 PM)

La Isla

Jul 20, 2011, 5:03 PM

Post #21 of 29 (1611 views)

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Quote

We can't go into an ER for treatment because it's full of people with their kids who only have a runny nose.

How can you be sure that they are all undocumented Mexicans? Many poor American citizens use ERs for basic medical care they can´t get anywhere else.

Yacatecuhtli

Jul 20, 2011, 6:12 PM

Post #22 of 29 (1581 views)

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Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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Zip on into Mexico! See how by clicking here

! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !

Goyo

Jul 20, 2011, 6:48 PM

Post #23 of 29 (1562 views)

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Re: [Charley Varrick] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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I hear what the conventional thinking here is saying. But, you could probably do it for quite a while if you don't do anything to official. It would be important to have a passport and if it expired while in Mexico you might need to return to the USA for renewal. The purpose would be for identification. Don't own anything. Live on cash. I think if you are willing to run the risks - as have been mentioned here - you could do it for quiet a while if you live among a large population that has other gringos (assuming you are a gringo) so you could hide in plain site. Don't become intoxicated and dress and groom yourself reasonably well. Try not to stand out and draw you own fire. Mexico is more live-and-let-live type of place but don't make enemies... that would be your quickest downfall. Also, don't let yourself become a criminal suspect because you are easy as an undocumented alien... the cops would love to take advantage of you.

I wouldn't do it, more out of paranoia than anything, but I can see it being done.

cbviajero

Jul 20, 2011, 6:51 PM

Post #24 of 29 (1561 views)

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Re: [La Paz] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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I'm not going to argue the pros or cons of immigration with you,I grew up blue collar working class in LA I've felt the negative impacts of cheap foreign labor in ways you probably have not.Your claims about the drain on society illegals have is very suspect IMO,all the mexicans I knew and worked with in LA over 30 years just worked,paid taxes and contributed to social security they would never collect on.How do you like living in Mexico?With your strong sense of right and wrong it must be tough.

cbviajero

Jul 20, 2011, 7:25 PM

Post #25 of 29 (1547 views)

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Re: [karenanron] Can I just disappear in Mexico?

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I totally agree about those runny nosed babies, we call them mocosos here, mine is 6 years old and is telling me it's his turn on the computer so he can play Dora la exploradora,I guess I'll let him,seeing how he is my anchor baby and will help me expedite my mexican citizenship.
Buena Suerte

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