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kmetzger

Jun 27, 2011, 7:42 PM

Post #1 of 19 (2905 views)

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backup power inverter

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I need emergency backup power for my computer (for 2-3 hours or so) and am considering something like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/...Source/dp/B000S0VFTM

Do you think this unit would be a good idea? Are they available in Guadalajara?

RickS

Jun 27, 2011, 8:35 PM

Post #2 of 19 (2891 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Kim, first maybe a question about your need for 2-3 HOURS of backup for you computer. "Most" of us don't have anywhere near that kind of back-up capability.... even in Mexico where the electricity is not as reliable as NOB. 5-15 minutes is probably more the norm. Normally the thing one is trying to do is have enough backup capability to gracefully shut down their computer if it looks like the outage is going to be more than a few minutes.

Depending on what kind of computer you have (desktop or laptop) and more importantly what kind of monitor (screen) you have your electrical draw could be somewhere between 200 and 400 watts. A backup unit rated somewhere between 350VA (volt-amps) and 750VA is sufficient to keep a computer, monitor, router etc. going for 7-15 minutes. These units cost between $60 and $100 NOB.... probably 20-50% more in Mexico. If I were buying one for Mexico I would make sure it also has AVR... automatic voltage regulation also.

The two brands that are most prevalent NOB are APC and Tripp-Lite. I have seen APC sold SOB but not Tripp-lite. See http://www.apc.com/...mily/index.cfm?id=27

To directly answer your question about the one you asked about..... I have no experience with a Duracell UPS. They are, of course, a big battery name but are not well known (to me anyway) in business. The two names above are more prevalent.

johanson / Moderator

Jun 27, 2011, 8:44 PM

Post #3 of 19 (2888 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Gosh, that is expensive. I presume you already have a UPS with a 5 to 15 minute backup power supply. I don't remember the costs, but, might it not be better to simply get a generator? I don't remember, but haven't I seen smaller generators at Costco, Mexico for a lot less?

YucaLandia

Jun 27, 2011, 8:48 PM

Post #4 of 19 (2886 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Robt,
That's one big UPS. It has a 60 Amp Hour 12V battery and includes an 1800W inverter. The battery contains about 720 watt hour capacity when new and fully charged, and is enough to power a desktop PC for roughly 8-10 hours or a newer laptop for 13 - 20 hours. Shoot, you could watch videos on a big screen TV for about 3 hours with that bad boy.

Here in Merida, Office Depot seems to have the biggest retail selection of UPSs. Maybe the same in your area?

I think you want to ask vendors for a "U P S" Un-interruptible Power Supply, because a "power inverter" is just part of the internal workings of a UPS. Sort of like asking for an electric motor, when you want to buy a floor fan.

RickS is right (and he types faster than me - where we were both answering at the same time): APC, Tripp, and Sola have very good reputations. APC does not give warranty payouts for UPS's bought in the US and used in Mexico. I have seen a lot of Tripp Lite UPSs here in Merida in offices: e.g. http://www.expansys.com.mx/brand/tripp-lite/

From a bit of a fun with a friend's Kill-a-Watt meter using Merida, Mexico's 134-137 VAC:
6 mo. old Dell Notebook:
2 w Charger only disconnected from computer
17 w Computer off
35 w Computer on
55 w Computer on w/HDD running

3 yr old E-Machine PC:
6 w Computer Off
68 w Computer On
85 w Computer On w/HDD running
7 w Computer in Sleep mode
2 w LCD Monitor on standby
33 w LCD monitor on

We've got measurements from a bunch of other household appliances if anyone is curious.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 27, 2011, 8:57 PM)

kmetzger

Jun 27, 2011, 8:49 PM

Post #5 of 19 (2888 views)

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Re: [RickS] backup power inverter

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Thanks, RickS - I need to keep my computer running for a few hours when the power shuts off (which it's been doing frequently lately) because I'm a professional translator and get my work online from Germany. I usually work under tight deadlines and the jobs have to get there on time. Of course, even with two or three hours, I still might be in deep kimchee if the power doesn't come back for a whole day, but then I'd have to find another solution anyway.
I use a desktop computer and have a 21 1/2" flat panel monitor.

kmetzger

Jun 27, 2011, 8:55 PM

Post #6 of 19 (2880 views)

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Re: [johanson] backup power inverter

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Pete - SAM's Club sells a 3000 Watt generator for about the same price. But I thought about the disadvantages of regular maintenance, the fumes and the cost in fuel.

YucaLandia

Jun 27, 2011, 9:12 PM

Post #7 of 19 (2869 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Keeping fuel fresh for a generator can be a hassle vs. a good UPS... especially since fuel goes bad here within just 2 months of purchase.

The UPS you asked about has "AGM" batteries, which intrigued me. AGM = Absorbed Glass Mats = the battery has AGM separators between the plates => a more rugged long lasting battery. Some companies' AGM batteries are warranteed for 10 years of deep-cycle service. This means 2X - 3X longer battery life compared to typical UPS (gel) batteries that last only 3-5 years.

If the AGM batteries in the UPS you propose are high quality and last 10 years, it would save you the 2 or 3 battery replacements ($120 each time?) that you could have with normal UPS batteries.

This makes we want to hear more about Duracell UPS's.
(Later edit: A number of Amazon customer reviews on this UPS are not favorable.)

Finally, since your desired power amperage usage is low, but you want that power for available for hours, the A-h rating of the UPS batteries is your main concern. More Amp-hours is what will give you power for longer periods of outages, while the 1800W only describes how many devices you can run for a short time. Watts/amps are like flow rates of water ( gal per hour) as how fast you can pump it out, while Amp-hour (Ah) ratings describe how big a water supply tank you have. Big A-h ratings = a really big power reserve "tank".
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 27, 2011, 9:30 PM)

kmetzger

Jun 27, 2011, 9:58 PM

Post #8 of 19 (2856 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] backup power inverter

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Here's more info. Not sure what it means.

Internal battery capacity 3x17 Ah
Duracell® Powersource 1800 is a stand-alone rechargeable Powerpack for backup and emergency power. Includes 5 AC
outlets and provides 10 hours/1.5 hours of backup/run time.
http://www.duracellpower.com/documents/tech-specs/powersource-1800.pdf

YucaLandia

Jun 27, 2011, 11:17 PM

Post #9 of 19 (2850 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Robt,
I got the 60 Ah value from a different seller's web site. The 3x17 Ah means it has 3 batteries inside, each with 17 Amp hour ratings at 12V = 51 A-h @ 12 VDC. In the DC power world Amperage x Voltage = Watts of power, so for the Duracell UPS you are considering has:

51 A-hr x 12V = 612 Watt-hr of stored power or 0.6 kWh of stored power = theoretically enough power when new to run your desk-top computer for 5-6 hrs, depending on how much the hard drive runs.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

stevebrtx

Jun 28, 2011, 6:20 AM

Post #10 of 19 (2831 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] backup power inverter

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Every year about this time I research alternatives including an inverter on a car battery, or to my car battery so I could start the car every hour or two and recharge. However for me the best would be a small Honda 1KW inverter gen with a propane modification. That way you don't have to deal with gas etc. But then I've not found them in MX and even NOB they're probably $1K so I'll just suffer the lousy CFE product and try not to complain too much.

Although (and I'm afraid to say this out loud) during the last two severe storms the power was solid, not sure why? The first big storm took out my nearly new UPS so I bought another because it has a nice piece of software with it that gently shuts down the PC with the regular Win7 shutdown procedure rather than just chopping it if I don't happen to be home when power goes off.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

YucaLandia

Jun 28, 2011, 7:13 AM

Post #11 of 19 (2817 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] backup power inverter

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Steve,
The propane option on a good Honda generator sounds sweet! A different generator-fuel storage solution: Autozone (Merida) does sell "Stabil", the gasoline preservation chemical additive, but I've found that our small 2 cycle motors' carbs still develop heavy deposits/blockages over time even with Stabil in the gas.

When you talk about connecting to your car battery a a back-up supply, did you consider that you likely need to have the car running to avoid damaging the battery, (unless you have a deep-cycle battery in your car)? Car battery electrodes are designed to supply a lot of amps quickly for starting, but they do not tolerate deep discharges well. Car battery lead plates get sulfonated (poisoned with sulfate) during repeated deep discharges vs. deep cycle batteries designed for deep discharges.

Another multi-use alternative to your problem is to buy a big-capacity portable Jump Starter for starting cars. Costco used to sell them for about $1,000 pesos. It uses an 18 A-hr deep-cycle lead-acid battery => 216 W-hr = enough power to run a laptop computer for 3-5 hours, and will run a little net-book for 6-10 hrs. The Jump Starter includes it's own small 15W charger, which can be used to trickle charge car batteries.... You'd still need an inverter to convert the Jump Starter 12VDC to 110VAC

The Power Station PSX model Jump Starter also includes a small built in air compressor and decent volt meter, so, you can get at least 6 different uses/functions out of a single Jump Starter (12V charger, big back-up battery, portable auto jump-starting, air compressor, Volt Meter, and power source for some cordless drills**).

What brand of UPS died?
I had a cheap ($40 USD) APC that does not down-regulate consistently high voltage. Our block's transformer puts out 134V on one leg and 137V on the other leg. The 137V was enough to ruin our older HP laser printer, and the display on a microwave oven. APC ultimately re-imbursed us $400 for the printer, but it took 3 months of fighting with them.

Did you save the batteries from inside the dead UPS?
If the batteries were OK, after they are charged, you can wire them in parallel into your existing UPS, and increase (2X?) the capacity of your UPS.

**I've also used the extra UPS batteries for the last 2 years to power my 24V portable drill. I connected two UPS batteries in series with 16 ga lamp cord to the connector plate of a dead drill battery, so, my "cordless" is now much lighter, since I carry the UPS/drill batteries in a small bucket, and has really long usage-life. I also use the UPS to re-charge the drill-batteries after each use (by tapping off the UPS's 12V charging system). Since UPS's use 12V chargers, you have to use a little trick w/DPDT switch to charge each battery in your 24V (2x12V ad hoc) drill power system.

Havin' fun yet?
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 28, 2011, 10:37 AM)

YucaLandia

Jun 28, 2011, 7:35 AM

Post #12 of 19 (2809 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Herr Metzger,
I apologize for addressing you as Robt. I was up late, unable to sleep with indigestion from a meal of really greasy chorizo**, and my bleary mind confused you with Robt65. No disrespect meant.
my bad,
steve

**We had a new restaurant open: an "Estilo Londres Pub". A friend wanted to use his coupon to check them out, and I had a hankering for pub-food. This Mexican version of a London Pub had no bangers, no chips, no curry-dish, no malt vinegar, no ale, no stout, no British-themed decor of any kind (not even a single Union Jack), but they did have an Elton John video playing, to accompany a nice herb-bacalao a la plancha on a bed of fried arugala for him, and papas de puré which I paired with Chorizo Espanoñola with fried peppers to approximate bangers and mashed. The onion and tocino desebrada on top of the papas were tasty, though.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 28, 2011, 7:47 AM)

kmetzger

Jun 28, 2011, 7:38 AM

Post #13 of 19 (2803 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] backup power inverter

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No prob, Steve. I just ordered the thing, based on comments received here from you and others. Let's see how it works out.

Hurricanes. Earthquakes. Floods. Power outages. The cable or satellite TV goes out. You left a power cable at the office. You could suddenly find yourself without access to the gadgets you thought you couldn't live without – and now know you can't. Here are a dozen digital items every modern home ought to be stocked with for either everyday use or just in case. Duracell Powersource 1800
I hope hope hope you have a universal power supply (UPS) battery backup/surge protector hooked up to your desktop computer/home office gear. If you don't, please proceed to the APC site and get one now. While you're at it, head over to Duracell for this five-outlet battery backup ($582) for other important electronics in your home. How much power you get depends on what you plug into it, but you'll get around three hours from your refrigerator, up to 10 for a laptop/modem/printer/phone rig.

http://tech.lifegoesstrong.com/duracell-powersource-1800

raferguson

Jun 28, 2011, 7:42 AM

Post #14 of 19 (2797 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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I wonder if your internet connection will work if the power is off. If the power outage is extensive, maybe your DSL/cable system is down. You can power your modem with your UPS or generator, but that won't help if the cable system runs on batteries that only work for a limited time.

You might get lucky, and the power outage might affect you and not the cable company, but I would not assume that would be the case.

You might consider an alternate internet connection, if you have a very strong need for reliable internet. Maybe a cellular modem from Telcel.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

kmetzger

Jun 28, 2011, 7:49 AM

Post #15 of 19 (2795 views)

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Re: [raferguson] backup power inverter

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Good point, Richard. But in my case (I live on the north-eastern outskirts of Guadalajara), power outages don't affect my Telmex internet service. If I could just figure out how to plug the modem into my UPS, I'd still be connected, but as a seriously non-techy I haven't figured that out yet. There are so many wires.

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jun 28, 2011, 7:54 AM)

YucaLandia

Jun 28, 2011, 7:54 AM

Post #16 of 19 (2791 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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Herr Metzger,
Your Telmex router should have a little 110V transformer that plugs into a normal outlet.

The UPS you ordered has 5 - 110V outlets, so, just plug the Telmex router into one of the 5 outlets on the UPS. If you need a longer cord, plug a simple power strip into the UPS, and plug your computer, monitor, printer, and router into the power strip. Using a power strip also allows you to completely turn-off all 3 at night to save power.

You might also consider un-plugging your new UPS from CFE's power during power outages, because the power surges can be pretty large as the CFE guys re-power-up the system, slapping the the transformer pole's big gate switches shut, etc. I've watched an inexperienced CFE guy try to unsuccessfully slap a switch rod into it's saddle-connector 4-5 times in a row, which rapidly slammed household voltages up and down for all the houses within several blocks. An old-timer on the crew ultimately took the telescoping fiberglass pole away from the newbie and then closed the switch in one brisk attempt.

Your UPS, TV, printer, computer and other sensitive electronics may not tolerate the voltage spikes and drops that occur as they re-energize the CFE system. UPS's are supposed to protect electronics from surges, but they do not always work as promised. This is why it's best to unplug electronics during lightning storms and power outages. Even the best UPS's and lightening supressors fail sometimes.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 28, 2011, 8:22 AM)

RickS

Jun 28, 2011, 1:31 PM

Post #17 of 19 (2761 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] backup power inverter

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" Even the best UPS's and lightening supressors fail sometimes."

What often happens is that there is a 'strike' that the UPS does handle but it cooks the protection.... and one doesn't know it as the UPS keeps working. So ones does nothing. Then the next 'strike' cooks the UPS as the former protection is now gone. :>(

johanson / Moderator

Jun 28, 2011, 5:25 PM

Post #18 of 19 (2738 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] backup power inverter

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I have a cool UPS. When I rebuilt my older home in Ajijic, the stock market hadn't crashed yet, and I thought I was upper middle class, so I purchased ten 175 Watt photo-voltaic solar panels, a much larger capacity inverter and eight large capacity 6 volt deep cell golf cart batteries which are connected to one of the 3 phases (spelling?) feeding the house. And between the batteries and the panels I have enough power for the refrigerator a few lights, a small TV, computer etc. 24 hours per day (assuming the only thing that's running during normal sleeping hours is the refrig and an outdoor security light or 3).

The inverter had excess capacity because I knew I was going to add more panels, once I knew how many more I would need and where I could put them. today, I have a total of 22 panels now at an average wattage of 180 per panel. As a result thereof, my last electrical bill was 85 pesos (normal 2 month period).

The folks who installed my system reminded me that a battery backup system would not be that cost effective. But in my case maybe it was :), because I sold stocks to pay for the system when they were at full value right before the stock market crash.

stevebrtx

Jun 29, 2011, 9:43 AM

Post #19 of 19 (2697 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] backup power inverter

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The UPS is a Koblenz 380va, it's more than able to handle the load and has a nice software package. However the previous one didn't survive a near lightening strike, or something from CFE, I kept the battery as it was only about 6 months old.

The CFE tried a new trick last night, in the middle of a quiet beautiful evening they dropped the voltage to 99V and appeared to lose sync so the frequency was all over the place which killed my answering machine even though plugged into the regulator. The odd thing was that the TV not only survived but continued to work during the CFE temper tantrum, it's on a different regulator.

The biggest problem was they pulled this when the weather station db was open during an update and somehow it erased all the date/time column data from yesterday back, the db is over 16,000 lines long, so about 5 hours of rebuilding this morning. Oddly a vicious horizontal storm blew through after midnight and the power stayed up? Broke two new pots that were broken during the last big blow, it's getting boring.
http://www.chapalaweather.net