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Bennie García

Jul 20, 2013, 5:08 AM

Post #26 of 35 (11626 views)

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Re: [robt65] Central Air Conditioning

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Two thoughts come to mind . . . . . one being I hope this fellow knows not to expect an "architect" here in México, to have the same knowledge or expertise as a NOB architect, as an architect here is more of a draftsman than a real architect
Robt65


That is an absolutely bizarre claim.


johanson


Jul 20, 2013, 6:10 AM

Post #27 of 35 (11621 views)

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Re: [robt65] Central Air Conditioning

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Here along the shores of Lake Chapala when it is very warm, the humidity is also too low, so low that many of us have to lubricate our skin. So what both cools and humidifies the air, when the air is very dry? a Dehumidifier/swamp cooler. It also uses a fraction of the electricity that and A/C does.

Now sure if I were on the coast where when it's hot its also very humid, I would want something that both cooled humid air and also lowered the humidity. That would be a more expensive to buy A/C which also uses much more electricity to operate.

Just remember that if you are using an evaporative cooler that you have to feed it with dry air, which means outside air. If you put it in the center of the room, it may drop the temperature a little bit but once the humidity is raised, it will just make conditions worse.

I had an air conditioner and evaporative cooler here in upper Ajijic. I soon discovered that all I needed was the evaporative cooler and sold my A/C.












c


robt65

Jul 20, 2013, 8:49 AM

Post #28 of 35 (11605 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Central Air Conditioning

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Hello Bennie,

With all due respect Bennie, this is factual. I have been in the architectural field for more than 25 years and there is a substantial difference in what the career of architecture covers and does not cover. It is much like there is a big difference in the duties of a lawyer and notario here in México and a notary and lawyer NOB. I know some specialty contractors NOB that in fact have much more knowledge in certain aspects of their specialty than a lot of architects. A good example of this for example, is that your knowledge of different (SOB) woods and other various construction products is excellent, in fact probably better than many Mexican architects and or Mexican engineers. The formal education here of architects is indeed much different than NOB ad covers far more than is covered here in Mexican Universities. I must also add that building with the different materials here is without a doubt covered more than it is even begun to be covered in the NOB architectural schools courses.

One of the beauties of this forum is there are many folks, professionals in their fields that have a plethora of information to assist other folks. Many new folks here on MexConnect look for correct information and this is what sometimes becomes baffling to persons with little knowledge of México and her good and bad points. My comment was certainly not intended to belittle anyone or México, it is just a fact. Being of different knowledge is certainly not meant to be confused with being of bad or poor knowledge, just different. "It is a good man who knows exactly what he doesn't know".

Regards,

Robt65


Bennie García

Jul 20, 2013, 11:55 AM

Post #29 of 35 (11592 views)

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Re: [robt65] Central Air Conditioning

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Hello Bennie,

With all due respect Bennie, this is factual. I have been in the architectural field for more than 25 years and there is a substantial difference in what the career of architecture covers and does not cover. It is much like there is a big difference in the duties of a lawyer and notario here in México and a notary and lawyer NOB. I know some specialty contractors NOB that in fact have much more knowledge in certain aspects of their specialty than a lot of architects. A good example of this for example, is that your knowledge of different (SOB) woods and other various construction products is excellent, in fact probably better than many Mexican architects and or Mexican engineers. The formal education here of architects is indeed much different than NOB ad covers far more than is covered here in Mexican Universities. I must also add that building with the different materials here is without a doubt covered more than it is even begun to be covered in the NOB architectural schools courses.



Regards,

Robt65


Again, with all due respect,how familiar are you with the curriculum of architecture students in this country? How many architects have you personally worked with in this country? Could you be making assumptions based on a very limited experience?

Here is a link to the studies course for a B of Architecture from the University of Guadalajara.

http://guiadecarreras.udg.mx/...ura-en-arquitectura/

And here is one from Cornell.

http://aap.cornell.edu/...ams/ugcurriculum.cfm

Take a look and see if one actually is more comprehensive than the other.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Jul 20, 2013, 12:06 PM)


YucaLandia


Jul 20, 2013, 12:22 PM

Post #30 of 35 (11587 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Central Air Conditioning

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Robt65 wrote:
Two thoughts come to mind . . . . . one being I hope this fellow knows not to expect an "architect" here in México, to have the same knowledge or expertise as a NOB architect, as an architect here is more of a draftsman than a real architect
Robt65


Bennie Garcia Replies:
That is an absolutely bizarre claim.


Actually, if Benny had not selectively edited Robert's original quote in ways that changed the original meaning, then Robert's assertions actually make sense.

If we add back one of Robert's key statements, then it actually fits reality - and moves far from the Benny's claims of the "bizarre":
..."It has been my experience here, if one is really needing the services of an architect, one might be further ahead to hire an engineer. "

My sister-in-law has been of a practicing Mexican architect, and on the Dept. of Architecture faculty at UADY for 3 decades, and she is partnered with the University's former Chief of Architecture on many high profile projects (e.g. our century old Opera house recovery) and 100's of minor projects - and in talking with both of them, it quickly becomes very clear that Mexican architects do NOT study the levels of engineering and materials sciences that are a routine part of US architecture programs.

US architects from good schools study far more hours, and learn in much greater depth and detail, for example, of steel and concrete engineering and materials sciences - giving them the full market-basket of skills to do the nuts-and-bolts engineering specs that even Mexican University-professor architects are not prepared for, let alone garden-variety Mexican architects/

============================================
Benny, When you make your over-simplified comparison of Guadalajara's course catalogue with Cornell's:
You have confused reading Titles of courses, with actual course content.
Cursory Google searches come up short on pertinent facts in this case.

The title of a course has little bearing on the content, depth, rigor, details, or difficulty of the actual courses. This is one area where the superficial summary titles of university courses actually bear little resemblance to reality, especially when the rubber-meets-the-road in comparing the actual working skills of US and Mexican architects.

Mexican and US architecture schools simply have different emphases, and very different work loads than each other.

============================================
Reality: Any time some unusual or novel structural design element is needed, ~ for things more complex than routine "see-spot-run" repetitive engineering efforts ~ then Robert's point about the need for hiring a Mexican engineer - actually fits the realities of Mexican construction and design.

============================================
Maybe Benny has a Mexican Architecture university degree that surpasses our UADY standards and US standards?

Still, even the UNAM Mexico City/DF trained architects we've known, have not approached the basic engineering skills required of the US architects we have known, basing the skills comparisons on: My daughter's skills and coursework in architecture at Northeastern University, my niece and nephew's Ivy League architecture degrees (including Cornell degrees) - with one of them becoming the official top LEEDS architect for Sweden, etc, plus all the efforts I saw required by multiple semesters of steel and concrete classes for my 2 University of Illinois architect room-mates . 18-20 hour work days were routine in these US University programs, while Mexican University architecture students approach 12 hr work days.

============================================
Bennie, it would be more helpful if you bring facts to the dialogue, rather than just the "bizarre" name-calling and quickie Google search results that you used to evaluate Robert's perspectives and evidence.

Example of facts: My Mexican university teaching architect friends and family members simply say they did NOT take or administer equivalent numbers or levels of concrete and steel classes as well-qualified US architects.

This means that they do NOT have the engineering backgrounds necessary for some building projects here.

Designing and overseeing installation of central airconditioning systems would seem to be one area where Mexican University Architecture schools may not spend much time.

Robert is factually correct: On many non-routine projects, we really are better off hiring an engineer as part of the team,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 20, 2013, 2:27 PM)


Bennie García

Jul 20, 2013, 3:22 PM

Post #31 of 35 (11554 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Central Air Conditioning

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So I take it that you agree with Robert's assessment that Mexican architects are basically just draftsmen? I'll bet your sister in law would appreciate that.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Jul 20, 2013, 3:39 PM)


YucaLandia


Jul 20, 2013, 5:06 PM

Post #32 of 35 (11537 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Central Air Conditioning

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So I take it that you agree with Robert's assessment that Mexican architects are basically just draftsmen? I'll bet your sister in law would appreciate that.


Bennie,
You wrote in another post that you have trouble reading longer posts, so, if you re-read the previous 1 post, you can answer your own questions.

e.g. If you read my reply above, I say 2 times that Mexican architects do routine repetitive "see-Spot-run" engineering just fine. I wrote 2 other times that they do NOT have in-depth training to do non-routine engineering and materials analyses like for non-routine concrete and steel designs.

===========================
One way the programs differ is a simple matter of mathematics: When students at the good US architecture programs work 18-20 hr days vs the Mexican student's shorter 12 hr day, the Americans cover at least 30% more material that the Mexican students never see.

These are not bad things - but instead represent a bit of the craziness, work-aholic attitudes and expectations at the good US schools. Years of 18-20 hr work days are beyond taxing for most sane people.

Clearly, you do not know what architects actually study, nor what they do, and that is OK.
I too have to rely on the good insights of my Mexican and US family members and friends who are fully licensed and top performing architects in each country.

====================
Bennie
There is no reason to ask nasty questions and make veiled accusations about mi cuñada and her competence.

.... Yes, I have asked my sister-in-law about the statics calculations of reinforced concrete and steel, and she says that they are NOT taught in great detail, nor expected to be used in great detail in Mexican architecture programs - unlike good US architecture programs.

Different strokes for different folks,
... which means Robert is right about hiring a Mexican engineer to work out serious engineering problems in designing buildings - and likely with central Air Conditioning design.

On the air conditioning issue, I found that neither my sister nor her chief of the university department architect knew how to quickly do the air conditioning calculations for the 3 apartments we are quickly building-out under their guidance and supervision, and as a result they both advised 50% too high (unnecessary expense) of BTU demands actually needed on each of the apartments. Why unnecessarily pay for 50% extra cooling capacity that will likely never be used?

There is nothing wrong with one group having different or better skill sets than another,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 20, 2013, 5:36 PM)


sparks


Jul 20, 2013, 5:54 PM

Post #33 of 35 (11524 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Central Air Conditioning

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Was this about air conditioning or not ...... gheeesh

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


YucaLandia


Jul 20, 2013, 6:50 PM

Post #34 of 35 (11514 views)

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Re: [sparks] Central Air Conditioning

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Was this about air conditioning or not ...... gheeesh


Sure it fits the topic and the discussion.

Would you only hire (an undertrained) Mexican architect to design and oversee the installation of your central air conditioning system?**
or Would you hire a competent knowledgeable HVAC engineer?

**When you found out that the Mexican architect was advising an air conditioning system that is 50% larger than the one designed by a qualified HVAC specialist, which one would you buy and install?

The competency of whom we hire seems to be right on point.

Robert's knowledge and choices on whom is competent to do engineering-based designs, were rudely challenged and falsely labelled as "bizarre" by Bennie.

Facts actually show Robert's understandings, and his decades of construction and design experience, fit with the experiences of both good US and good Mexican architects.

It shows that Robert's advice could save Mexconnect readers a lot of future headaches and $$, by hiring the best professional, even though they were repeatedly criticized by Bennie.

It also shows that those who only snipe and criticize, ("gheeesh"),
without knowing the subject matter, and those who post without offering useful facts, are seeming to becoming a regular feature of the Mexconnect forums.
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 20, 2013, 7:02 PM)


Bennie García

Jul 20, 2013, 7:20 PM

Post #35 of 35 (11506 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Central Air Conditioning

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 Well at least this time Steve, you have the nerve to attack me in the open and not via your usual nasty private messages.

As far as disrespecting anyone, if you were honest, which you are not in the least, you would have noticed that it was Robert who stated that Mexican architects are nothing more than draftsmen. So if you have a problem with that bizarre statement, take it up with him. I made no accusation of any kind about your family member. Claiming that I did is simply a lie.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Jul 20, 2013, 7:22 PM)
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