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barontjk

May 11, 2011, 8:23 PM

Post #1 of 39 (9747 views)

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POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Hello,

Has anyone but me noticed an uptick in attention from the Guadalajara police? Has anyone had any trouble with them?

They've been polite to me, but when they see me, they pull me over...which is new because for 9 months they left me alone. Now they've begun to pull me over.

Thanks!

tom koloniar



Casa

May 11, 2011, 10:45 PM

Post #2 of 39 (9719 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Just out of curiosity what kind of plates do you have on your car?

Jalisco? USA or Canada? or a Mexican state other than Jalisco, if so which state?


texican

May 12, 2011, 5:03 AM

Post #3 of 39 (9711 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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I thought it was just me I have been pulled over the last two times I was in Guad. Like you they were very friendly and let me go with no ticket. The fist time was to check my papers and the second time for going too slow? I was moving with the traffic flow. I think it is the Texas plates I have. Guess I'll start driving my Mx plated car when I go to Guad


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 7:11 AM

Post #4 of 39 (9689 views)

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Re: [Casa] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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I've got american plates. I may have to switch to Jalisco plates. : (


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 7:13 AM

Post #5 of 39 (9689 views)

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Re: [texican] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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It's my american plates, probably. The first time they were "looking for guns". The second time was for no reason at all. I'll probably have to get Jalisco plates. I didn't wanna spend the money, but it's a drag being pulled over.
Thanks.


Camille

May 12, 2011, 10:14 AM

Post #6 of 39 (9655 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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I think it may have spread to Ajijic. Yesterday trying to get to the tianguis I was pulled over by a street cop who informed me that even though there was no arrow, I was going the wrong way on a one-way street. He then demanded my vehicle registration papers and license. I gave him the license and copies of my passposrt, current FM3, and a copy of Articulo 106, which he threw back in my face and began calling a tow truck. Meanwhile many Mexicans came down the same street, going the same way I was, with no notice from Mr. A.H. A nice lady stopped to see what was going on and I figured what the hey, I didn't do theater for all those years for nothing, so I started bawling really loudly and even got some tears out, and then wept that I was having surgery today....
Bottom line, the usual 200p bribe.
Nice lady, sorry if I upset you!


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 10:19 AM

Post #7 of 39 (9650 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Okay. I'm calling the Consulate today. Not that it will help, but it's worth a try. If they're hasseling us in Ajijic too...


Camille

May 12, 2011, 10:25 AM

Post #8 of 39 (9647 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Oh yes, forgot to mention...I drive a monster Tundra with Texas plates. Does anyone offer a "Sitting Duck" sticker?


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 10:44 AM

Post #9 of 39 (9630 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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After 99 calls to the Consulate, I got someone to answer the phone. (Anyone wanting to complain about Consular services can write to ACSGDL@STATE.GOV. I'll be doing that today because they're too damn hard to reach.)

Anyhow, our options are as follows: We can file a letter of complaint with whichever agency is hasseling us, be it state, municipal, etc. Then we can petition the Consulate to follow up on the process of that agency's investigation. Otherwise, the Consulate will do nothing. Trouble is, you have to tell the agency your complaining about who you are and all that jazz.

So, we need to think about this, I guess. For me, another couple of stops, and I'm probably going to file a complaint.


esperanza

May 12, 2011, 10:45 AM

Post #10 of 39 (9628 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Here ya go: http://www.cafepress.com/...rectangular,36728529

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Casa

May 12, 2011, 11:31 AM

Post #11 of 39 (9615 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Some time ago there was talk in Guadalajara and Jalisco about Los retenes, columnas o volantas de seguridad que circulan por la ciudad de Guadalajara. With the recent US Security warning now including Jalisco I would not be surprised if they were back or being intensified in the region.

These operations tend to stop “suspicious” vehicles. Now what you and I consider suspicious is very different from what the municipal and state leaders consider suspicious. According to Emilio, the govanator of Jalisco, there are no narcos in Jalisco (because in Jalisco we love peace) so all the bad guys come from outside the state. Therefore it is important to pull over all cars that do not have Jalisco plates and the problem will be solved...... I was also told by the police on a recent stop that SUVs, trucks and luxury vehicles are targeted more as are vehicles with 2 or more men travelling together, which explain why I get pulled over every time I drive anywhere with my same sex partner.....

Best advice is to have ALL of your papers in order and do not offer any money or facilitation $, unless of course your papers are not in order.

It’s only going to get worse before it gets better....


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 11:48 AM

Post #12 of 39 (9605 views)

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Re: [Casa] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Casa,
This is interesting. Thank you.


Camille

May 12, 2011, 3:12 PM

Post #13 of 39 (9577 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Are we required to carry the original registration papers with us? That doesn't sound safe to me.....


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 3:43 PM

Post #14 of 39 (9571 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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What I was told at immigration was that the FM3 went with the permit sticker that I received at the border and that I didn't need any other permit papers for the car. Both of my traffic stops seem to confirm this because in both instances the cops accepted what I told them. I showed them the FM3 ID card and the sticker and they seemed satisfied. (If you drive out and come back, this changes a bit. See the attachment below.

This is a great website about living in Mexico with TONS of info posted by an American living here in Mexico. I highly recommend it, as he hasn't steered me wrong yet. It's very well laid out and easy to navigate, very well organized and concise.

http://rollybrook.com/Page%20Directory.htm


skier14

May 12, 2011, 3:48 PM

Post #15 of 39 (9570 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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I have been stopped twice recently in Guadalajara. Once by a traffic cop and once by the municipl police. I only showed them a copy of my vehicle permit and my California registration. No one asked for my FM2 or drivers license. They were nice and so was I.


Camille

May 12, 2011, 4:10 PM

Post #16 of 39 (9555 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Yes, I gave the cop copies of the registration papers AND Articulo 106, which states that all one needs is a current FM2,3,or FMT, and the sticker. He wadded it up and threw it into my car.....nice guy. Wish I'd gotten his name.....


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 4:17 PM

Post #17 of 39 (9552 views)

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Re: [Camille] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Camille,
Sounds like you were stopped by a particularly nasty fellow. Sorry that happened. All mine have been nice so far, but shifty.


jrpierce


May 12, 2011, 4:24 PM

Post #18 of 39 (9546 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Don't feel singled out in Guadalajara. I live in Morelia, and people here with foreign plates have been complaining about being pulled over at a roadblock manned by State and Federal police. It seems the police are cracking down on cars smuggled in from the USA driven with US plates. Those cars may have been legally obtained in the US, or are possibly stolen.

The news reports here in Morelia say the police have impounded around 400 vehicles, and even found some drugs hidden in some of the cars. Some expats have been hassled because the police don't understand the law, but I haven't heard of anyone losing their car--just going through some unpleasant discussions with the police.

Jim


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 4:25 PM

Post #19 of 39 (9538 views)

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Re: [jrpierce] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Jim,
Thanks for the information!
Tom


jrpierce


May 12, 2011, 4:52 PM

Post #20 of 39 (9522 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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You are welcome, Tom....

I suppose my message might sound contradictory. I should have said that I know of no expats with valid visas whose legally imported cars have been confiscated. Several said that having a copy of Articulo 106 in Spanish was what saved their bacon because the police didn't seem familiar with the rules.

Jim


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 5:40 PM

Post #21 of 39 (9509 views)

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Re: [jrpierce] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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thank you again, jim.

i was pretty sure that was what you meant.

tom


Reefhound


May 12, 2011, 7:33 PM

Post #22 of 39 (9480 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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So where are those people that always insist that cops are not allowed to check your immigration status or vehicle permits? No matter how it's supposed to work in theory, it seems pretty obvious that local and state cops do indeed check your documentation.


barontjk

May 12, 2011, 7:46 PM

Post #23 of 39 (9474 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Mr. Reefhound,

I am not entirely sure what point you are attempting to make, however, as a retired police officer I am at LEAST as aware as you are of how police work is supposed to be performed--in any nation--and intimidation and extortion (the expectation and acceptance of bribes over immaginary offenses)--or worse--are examples of how it is NOT supposed to be done. These are the types of concerns we are attempting to address and to explore here. These concerns are not at all unreasonable, especially in a culture where police corruption is very common. We are merely pooling our experiences in an attempt determine what is happening, whether or not there is cause for concern.

If you feel there is no cause for concern, that's all you need to say. To imply, however, that we are being unreasonable in our exploration of this matter--if that is, indeed, your implication, puts you in a position that I do not quite comprehend.

Good day to you, sir.


esperanza

May 12, 2011, 9:16 PM

Post #24 of 39 (9453 views)

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Re: [barontjk] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Barontjk, I believe that Reefhound is referring to the long, long history of posts on these forums stating that ONLY certain police officers have the right to ask you about the status of your vehicle's temporary import permit. Reefhound isn't, as far as I can tell, trying to make any point except to ask what the heck is going on now. Many police other than the Aduana are jumping in where in theory they are not allowed to jump. It's a valid question and one with no easy answer.

IMHO, if a police officer stops you, you are pretty much duty bound to stick around to see what he/she wants. NOT stopping is likely to get you in a lot of trouble--trouble that has nothing to do with your vehicle sticker.

This situation exists both in Guadalajara and in Morelia, with some incidents reported at Lake Chapala. One of these days it will get sorted out, but until then, stop if they flag you down. Give them Article 106. Expect that in general the police officers will be reasonable.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









barontjk

May 12, 2011, 9:44 PM

Post #25 of 39 (9446 views)

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Re: [esperanza] POLICE HARASSMENT IN GUADALAJARA?

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Esperanza,

Thank you for your input. It's certainly possible that I've missunderstood reefhound's point. I have relatives here on the Vialidad police department, so I'm aware that the police here have different tasks to perform, but I don't concern myself with who has what job. I just pull over when they tell me to.

What started all of this concern is that I and a number of other Americans that I know have had very little or no contact with the Guada. police in the past ten months. Now, over the course of just a few weeks, we can't seem to pass a municipal police/patrol unit without getting pulled over, and for no apparent reason other than being Americans. Some of the police are very professional, and some simply are not. We're concerned about the sudden attention we are getting, and certainly concerned about those police who are not professional. A number of my Mexican relatives along with my wife who have lived here all their lives have expressed serious concerns about this, and this concern of theirs is what has caused me to ask about the experiences of others Americans--just to make sure we're being treated correctly. I cannot know unless I ask.

So far, it seems as though the police are, in general, simply attempting a more effective drug interdiction, but it's curious that they would target Americans with such enthusiasm if that's what it's about. And at least one of the police who has stopped me was certainly looking for money, which I made it clear that I would not be offering.

I would much rather err to the side of caution, given what my relatives here have warned me about.

Thank you again for your words. They help to assure me.
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