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azheat


Apr 4, 2011, 3:10 PM

Post #1 of 24 (7909 views)

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Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Sounds like these two were VERY lucky to remain alive through this:

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3058578

I guess we never know what we will do when confronted with
this kind of situation.

(sorry, I don't know how to make it clickable!)


(This post was edited by tonyburton on Apr 4, 2011, 3:34 PM)



Reefhound


Apr 4, 2011, 6:45 PM

Post #2 of 24 (7858 views)

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Re: [azheat] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Very lucky indeed and quite foolish. They are lucky to run into a group of young criminals who apparently had no intent on killing anyone. They wave their weapons and tell the couple to pull over but don't fire when the guy tells them to eff off. They stop in the road and get out but don't fire when the guy puts it in reverse and backs away. They don't fire when the couple apparently drive past them on the other side of the road. It sounds like it took them a few minutes to get into the RV but don't come in firing. No mention of ever pointing a weapon at the couple, just at the dog. And all they demand is the camera. I can see about five points where they would have been turned into swiss cheese if these had been hard core zetas.


DavidHF

Apr 4, 2011, 7:28 PM

Post #3 of 24 (7844 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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I'm thinking these ex-cops were pretty smart and analyzed the situation and acted according to their training. Most of us would not have been able to do that. In such a tense situation people make their own decisions and it's not for us to criticize them or speculate on what could have happened. The fact is they kept their cool and got out of the situation cleanly.


Reefhound


Apr 4, 2011, 9:41 PM

Post #4 of 24 (7825 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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You're right, I've stated before that it's a personal call at the time based on circumstances. I'm not really critical of their initial decision to put it in reverse and flee.

I guess what really bothers me is the unnecessary bravado and making jokes of it that could lead others to think the bad guys are all bark and no bite, and be tempted to do the same. When someone waves a gun out the car window and tells you to pull over, you can justify your choice to pull over or to flee but it just seems unnecessarily silly to risk provoking them by yelling for them to f--- off. If someone is trying to force you into a car, you can justify your choice to resist or cooperate but to refuse to give up a camera at gunpoint is silly. The way they proudly recounted the details of their bravado - how he told them to eff off, how they left the guys standing in the road "looking stupid", how feisty she was to take a swing at 8 men holding guns - is ridiculous.

I don't think they analyzed the situation very well at all. Note how they fled to a Pemex thinking being around other people would deter the bad guys. They obviously badly misjudged that. How could anyone that's even half aware of things in Mexico believe that? I doubt there's a person on this board who would've though the thugs along the border would be afraid to do something in front of other people. Geez, you're talking about guys who routinely ambush police patrols, storm into hospitals to finish people off, and fire on the military. No, I think they just got extremely lucky.


Altahabana


Apr 4, 2011, 9:58 PM

Post #5 of 24 (7821 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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I'm thinking these ex-cops were pretty smart and analyzed the situation and acted according to their training. Most of us would not have been able to do that. In such a tense situation people make their own decisions and it's not for us to criticize them or speculate on what could have happened. The fact is they kept their cool and got out of the situation cleanly.


I disagree completely. They both reacted impulsively as if they were encountering some North American thugs and are lucky to be alive. Probably the group were Gulf cartel members because that Zetas typically don't react so timidly. This is not a blueprint for how to react to an incident like this assuming they are not embellishing a bit what actually happened.


mexliving

Apr 4, 2011, 11:53 PM

Post #6 of 24 (7809 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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thank god they made it safe.. ex-cops would have an advantage because they are used to being around weapons and criminals..... i believe the criminals where caught off guard when the husband acted the way he did with his driving skills...

and once they caught up to them at the pemex, same thing........ the cops behavior did not make sence... a regular citizen would act as i would in a situation like that...... scared....


Reefhound


Apr 5, 2011, 6:02 AM

Post #7 of 24 (7789 views)

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Re: [mexliving] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Well they definitely called the gunmen's bluff, and fortunately for them they were bluffing. A person is either prepared to pull the trigger or they're not. These thugs were either out of ammo or not prepared to pull a trigger. The reaction many of these thugs have to being "confused" is to just pull the trigger. Most of the 35,000 killed in the last few years (police and other cartel thugs) were used to being around weapons and still they're dead.


chinagringo


Apr 5, 2011, 6:19 AM

Post #8 of 24 (7778 views)

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Re: [azheat] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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While I have no reason to question the basic story, I have to wonder if "Dudley Do-Right", the retired Mountie, might not have embellished his description just a tad? We all react differently in given situations but from law enforcement friends I have had, I cannot envision any of them telling armed gunmen to "eff off" in a situation such as this. Maybe it did happen exactly as related but maybe some creative license has been taken?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Altahabana


Apr 5, 2011, 8:14 AM

Post #9 of 24 (7741 views)

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Re: [mexliving] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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and once they caught up to them at the pemex, same thing........ the cops behavior did not make sence...


The municipal police in Matamoros are probably on the payroll of either the Zetas or the Gulf cartel which probably explains their indifferent behavior. The army and marines are the only forces that confront the cartels in the Tamaulipas border cities.

There have been two publicized incidents in the past month or so where innocents have tried to evade cartel gunmen in similar situations--both with fatal consequences. One incident involved the American missionary who was fatally wounded when her husband tried to outrun a group of Zetas that had ordered them to stop at a reten on Hwy 97, and the other involved a vacationing family from Tampico who failed to stop at a reten on Hwy 101 south of Matamoros.

People are going to react in different ways, but I see no reason to glorify what these two did. I think they were extremely fortunate to come out of this unscathed and what they did flies in the face of universal advice on how people should react to an encounter with armed cartel gunmen.


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Apr 5, 2011, 8:15 AM)


Reefhound


Apr 5, 2011, 8:35 AM

Post #10 of 24 (7726 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Yeah they're lucky the Matamoros local cops didn't "escort" them to a rendezvous with the gang members.


robt65

Apr 6, 2011, 5:57 PM

Post #11 of 24 (7548 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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I have to agree with a few posters here. I think there is a pretty fair degree of embellishing going on here. Being Canadian I can tell you that most “Dudley Do Rights” do not carry weapons of any credible size, with some few exceptions. Almost any Canadian cop or provincial police can tell you that telling the criminal to “ef off” works pretty well up there, as one can be hard pressed to even find criminals with guns. They are very, very illegal in Canada for the general public to own a firearm, except for hunting.
Robt65


Moisheh

Apr 8, 2011, 7:44 AM

Post #12 of 24 (7444 views)

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Re: [robt65] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Here is a similar story that was published in a small newspaper in Canada. I apologize for the formatting but this paper is not online and they did send me the PDF. This is very similar to the other Matamoros story. Some people are trying to say they were not sicarios but undercover cops. Nonsense. I think they are wanabees as real sicarios would have just shot these people.

Moisheh



Next time he’ll fly
Trucker outruns armed bandits

A
lone on a deserted highway, suddenly con-fronted by armed bandits brandishing an automatic weapon—it’s every motorist’s worst nightmare.
The choices are so few—and they all look hopeless.
But Ste Anne trucker Dennis Wohlgemuth made his choice in an instant—and his quick thinking may have saved his life.

Returning home from a two-month stay in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico late last month, Wohlgemuth was just a half hour south of the U.S. border at Laredo, Texas when two young Mexican men in a large SUV pulled alongside his late model Mazda Tribute and motioned for him to pull over.
"Pulling over was not an option," Wohlgemuth said in describing his harrowing experience, adding his first thoughts were that these men were after his vehicle.
Within moments he also noticed a second vehicle closing in on him from some distance behind and realized he would have to act quickly if he wanted to escape.

A few seconds later the passenger in the Chevy Tahoe poked an automatic rifle out of the window—and Wohlgemuth acted.
He slammed on his brakes, watching the truck alongside him fly by and come to a stop diagonally in front of him. He frantically made a U-turn and managed to get by the second truck which had stopped well behind him.
His sudden move may have surprised the bandits. By the time they had turned both their vehicles around, he was well ahead and heading back south with the pedal pressed to the floor.
"When I saw the Texas plates on the first truck as it flew by, I knew they wanted my vehicle; they probably were not going to shoot or ram me because bullet holes or other damage would have made them too noticeable."
Wohlgemuth figures the vehicles were likely stolen in Mexico and the thieves now wanted another truck to avoid detection.
"I just kept my foot down, and gradually I seemed to be gaining on them, the speed limiter (set at the factory) on their trucks must have been set lower than mine."
(A check of his GPS unit later showed he had been travelling at 167 km/h, or just under 104 miles per hour.)

He knew he had just a few miles to go before returning to the Mexican checkpoint he had passed only minutes earlier, a secondary station used mainly to scrutinize traffic entering the country and where travellers are routinely waved through on their way north.
However, while he said it seemed the police and soldiers at the checkpoint seemed quite willing to go after the bandits, the time lost overcoming the language barrier made pursuit impractical.

After giving himself some time at the checkpoint to calm down ("My legs felt like rubber when I got out of the car.") Wohlgemuth took another route to Laredo after learning his choice of highway leading to the Colombia Bridge at the border, one usually considered safe, had lately been listed as dangerous for motorists.

Next winter Wohlgemuth wants to go back to his favorite spot in Puerto Vallarta, where he has been spending part of the winter for years and is sometimes joined by his brother Burton for several weeks, but his days of running the gauntlet of Mexican highways are over.

"Next time I’m flying," he declared.

by Peter Dyck

PETER DYCK • THE CARILLON


Dennis Wohlgemuth’s quick action on a Mexican highway in his Mazda Tribute may have saved his life.



panama john

Apr 8, 2011, 2:00 PM

Post #13 of 24 (7394 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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This is a completely different story than the Matamoros version. What's going on?


azheat


Apr 8, 2011, 2:25 PM

Post #14 of 24 (7384 views)

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Re: [panama john] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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It's a different story--about a man traveling alone in his car,
not the RV people.

In other words, a second event that happened recently.


Altahabana


Apr 8, 2011, 2:35 PM

Post #15 of 24 (7378 views)

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Re: [panama john] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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The last story is reporting a different incident. This one happened on the detour to the fabled Columbia Bridge. At least that seems to be where it happened based on the description in the story. And around Nuevo Laredo there are no "wannabe sicarios". This guy had an encounter with the real thing. This is a very accurate description of how these things go down and why local residents avoid Highway 2 and why I recommend posters not use Columbia Bridge.


Moisheh

Apr 8, 2011, 3:02 PM

Post #16 of 24 (7367 views)

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Re: [panama john] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Panama John: How much clearer can i be. I stated that it was a SIMILAR story. I never said it was the same story!!!!


panama john

Apr 8, 2011, 3:38 PM

Post #17 of 24 (7356 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Your right Moisheh. I didn't read the article very clearly. My mistake. Two different Canadian couples, two different locations. But one thing is for sure. Slowly ,day by day we are losing more land travel options to the northern border. By we, I mean all of us, Mexicans includued. Twelve years ago I spent some time in Cartagena Columbia. At that time the only way of traveling to Bogota, the capital was by air. A distance of some 600 kilometers. The criminals and narco guerrilas controled all the country-side. It may be coming to that here in Mexico.


Moisheh

Apr 8, 2011, 5:24 PM

Post #18 of 24 (7338 views)

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Re: [panama john] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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John: I agree Mexico is quickly becoming a hell hole. When people are behaded or skinned and their hearts removed I wonder how Mexico got to this point in time. I have always considered Mexicans to be peaceful people. What happended? Even when the madness stops there will be problems. When I see all of those automatic weapons I paint a picture in my mind of people shooting in the air as in the Arab countries.


Reefhound


Apr 8, 2011, 5:28 PM

Post #19 of 24 (7337 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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This story, unlike the Matamoros one, sounds like the sicarios simply never had a chance for a clear shot. He made a quick move and was able to turn around and get a good head start, and was not far from the interior checkpoint. He was lucky that circumstances were right for that. Amazing that he was able to make the change from Mx2 back to Mx85 in the heat of the moment.


panama john

Apr 8, 2011, 6:02 PM

Post #20 of 24 (7323 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Moisheh; It certainly has gotten way out of hand in the past couple of years. I listen to Pedro Ferris De Con, excellent journalist, almost every morning on his sindacated radio program, "Radio Imagen Informativa". He usually tells it like it is.After the murder of the American ICE agent near San Luis Potosi he said we, Los Mexicanos, slowly but surely are losing our ability and right to travel by vehicle to Texas, because of the narco terror taking place on our hiways. I believe that now I have to agree with him.


chinagringo


Apr 8, 2011, 6:54 PM

Post #21 of 24 (7306 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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As a hesitant reader of both Borderland Beat and Blog Narco, it certainly appears that the level of violence and atrocities seem to be escalating and it isn't just confined to the border areas! While it could be that their sources have improved and they now have access to more graphic evidence, from my point of view it seems to be getting worse and worse. I read somewhere the other day where an official of the Mexican Govt. predicted all would improve by 2015. Certainly an optimistic prediction but at what cost?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Reefhound


Apr 8, 2011, 8:12 PM

Post #22 of 24 (7287 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Perhaps that's an optimistic prediction but it has to be pretty darn depressing to someone living in the border area to hear the government saying that they can expect another 3 or 4 years of this hell.


Casa

Apr 9, 2011, 12:25 AM

Post #23 of 24 (7265 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Perhaps that's an optimistic prediction but it has to be pretty darn depressing to someone living in the border area to hear the government saying that they can expect another 3 or 4 years of this hell.

actually they (El secretario de Seguridad Pública federal, Genaro García Luna) are saying another seven (7) years the violence will begin to decrease.....

http://www.milenio.com/node/688834


(This post was edited by Casa on Apr 9, 2011, 12:28 AM)


chinagringo


Apr 9, 2011, 6:51 AM

Post #24 of 24 (7225 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Scary event for 2 Canadians in Matamoros

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Sarcasm: characterized by words that mean the opposite of what they seem to say and are intended to mock or deride
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

 
 
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