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Rolly

Mar 30, 2011, 3:13 PM

Post #1 of 46 (5187 views)

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Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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This afternoon I have received two e-mails from folks in Morelia saying that the local police are cracking down on vehicles with permits that have not been renewed by the local Aduana office. Until March 2005, there was a largely ignored rule that a FM3/2 person had to notify Aduana each year that their FM3/2 had been renewed. In March 2005, that rule was dropped. It now appears that it is back -- at least in Morelia.

Have you heard of that in others parts of the country?

Rolly Pirate

Bennie García

Mar 30, 2011, 5:18 PM

Post #2 of 46 (5150 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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My understanding is that the local police have no jurisdiction whatsoever over these vehicles. Only the enforcement police (policía fiscal) of the Aduana have a say in the matter. The permits are a federal concern.

Rolly

Mar 30, 2011, 6:19 PM

Post #3 of 46 (5128 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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That is my understanding as well. Nevertheless, the reports I have are saying that local police are stopping foreign-plated cars and that tow trucks are on hand to take cars away if the papers are not in order.
Frankly, I don't know what to make of it.

Here are some quotes from the e-mails:

...in Morelia the police are trying to tow vehicles with outdated vehicle permits even if the FM2/3 is valid.

From another:

The traffic folks in Morelia have a campaign going on and they have a number of checkpoints primarily at the entry/exit points of the city. They have a tow truck right there.

Rolly Pirate

dongringo_catemaco

Mar 31, 2011, 2:27 AM

Post #4 of 46 (5078 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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"In March 2005, that rule was dropped"

I used to renew my aduana permit until 2006, which was more complicated than an FM3, until I stopped because no one else I knew ever renewed theirs, and ultimately because I began using Mexican plates. Still, I am curious. Where might I find the change in law, Rolly, thanks.
Visit Catemaco News

Rolly

Mar 31, 2011, 9:39 AM

Post #5 of 46 (5020 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I have not been able to find the original source of the information about the dropping of the reporting rule in March 2005. But it seems to be moot because the rule appears th be in effect now.

Here is the Aduana rule book for the temporary importation of vehicles: http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2011/Descargas/Tramites/Manual_importacion_24032011.pdf
The relevant section is #17 which begins on page 45 of the PDF document. Google can’t translate a PDF and this file has the copy command disabled, so wading through the Spanish legalese is chore. As best I can discern, these are the important points:

1. Any change in your INM status (renewal, upgrade, etc) must be reported to Aduana within 15 working days.
2. The documents required are a copy of your visa card and a copy of the temporary importation permit. [There is no mention of a letter or passport copy.]
3. The documents are to be presented to an Aduana office or a Banjécite CIITEV station. [Presumably there will be a receipt proving compliance with the rule.]
4. There is no charge.
5. Your vehicle continues to legal whether you file these papers or not.
6. There does not seem to be any penalty for non-compliance.

Based upon this reading of the rule, I cannot explain the actions taking place in Morelia. It seems to me to be a case of a local official making his own rules.

Aduana offices are located at every port of entry – land crossings, sea ports and international airports. For those who do not live near one of these places, there used to be a place to send a letter to Aduana. There is no mention of that in the rules.

This reporting rule has been widely ignored for years. My guess is it will continue to be except in those rare case of a local crackdown.

YMMV

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Mar 31, 2011, 10:58 AM)

panama john

Mar 31, 2011, 10:08 AM

Post #6 of 46 (5003 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I was stopped by federal police in Cordaba, Veracruz about a month ago. They checked my permit status and found that the permit had been expiried for several months. I showed them my current fm3 and a copy of Articulo 106 Ley Aduanera en Vigor (2004). After making some celphone calls, they told me that the car wasn't legal, then handed me back my documents and promptly drove away leaving me on the side of the road. So I talked to a friend of mine who has lived in Cordoba for over 20 years. He told me that each year he sends a copy of his fm3 and vehicle permit to the aduana in Veracruz city and they send back a letter verifying the legality of the vehicle. He does this every year and hasn't had any problems.

bournemouth

Mar 31, 2011, 10:33 AM

Post #7 of 46 (4987 views)

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Re: [panama john] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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We had a similar experience outside Manzanillo a few months ago. The Federal officer insisted that we needed to go to Aduaneros in the port and get a new permit and then left us. We did not but it would be nice if this "problem" could get cleared up.

I know that some years back the customs people in Guaymas told local gringos it was no longer necessary to come in to get the annual letter.

Rolly

Mar 31, 2011, 3:01 PM

Post #8 of 46 (4916 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I just deleted 4 posts that created a muddled confusion because of a wrong URL that I posted and have since corrected.
I'm sorry for the confusion I caused.

Rolly Pirate

Rolly

Mar 31, 2011, 3:53 PM

Post #9 of 46 (4905 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I have updated my website in include this information from Aduana.
http://rollybrook.com/car-in-México.htm

Rolly Pirate

Ric Hoffman

Apr 1, 2011, 6:21 AM

Post #10 of 46 (4836 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Print chapter 17. This has been the case since at least the 2006 version of the manual. The wording in chapter 17 is the same. This new manual was uploaded by SAT 24032011 (24 Mar 2011) as indicated by the file number. Keep it for reference just like you probably have Article 106 of the Aduana Law which is not an immigration law as has been reported. Your sticker is valid as long as the visa associated to it is unless you cross the border with it. Then you must turn it in and have a new one issued when you return (be certain to carry your title when you travel). The form to notify Aduana of your change can be found at annex 2 of the manual.

The only agency who can impound your vehicle would be the Aduana since in Mexico each agency enforces individually. If I were stopped, I would insist an Aduana Agent be called to the scene and if not for a “boleto de infracción o faulta” be issued. Unless you are involved in something really serious or vehicle is reported as stolen, they must issue a ticket and not take any payments on the spot.

I answered this question as soon as I heard about it to memebrs of the Morelia / Patzcuaro community on March 30, 2011.

Complete chapter 17 can be printed from link or downloaded from MoreliaConnect.

While most visitors know that Article 106 of the Customs Law allows certain visa holders to maintain foreign plated vehicles in Mexico past the 180 days permit period. Most have kept a copy of the article in the vehicle for quick reference. Everyone knows that the government has Leyes y Reglamentos (Laws and Regulations) but they also have manuals and agreements published to help interpret and enforce them. This extract explains that even if you do not notify the Aduana of your extended visa, your vehicle is still legal in Mexico as long as your visa is. If you made a CASH deposit instead of a bank card, you should report to a Módulos CIITEV to notify them of your change or you may forfeit it. If one is not near you then you can go to an Aduana office who should forward your notification for you. If in doubt you can contact the servicing Aduana office.

A Google translation of paragraph 17, 4, says:
Where the procedure of temporary importation is effected by bank card, and the documentation is complete, responsible for the CIITEV of the Customs office concerned shall inform the person concerned is not necessary to the presentation of such notice under which their vehicle is legal in the country while their immigration status, including their extensions, renewals or change to another immigration status to continue existing.

Manual de Operación para la Importación Temporal de Vehículos y Motocicletas Abril 2010 http://tinyurl.com/manual-24032011

mazbook1

Apr 2, 2011, 7:35 PM

Post #11 of 46 (4679 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Ric (and Rolly), I must agree with Ric. Here is my take on the whole thing – no extension letter from Aduana is necessary at all UNLESS you made a cash deposit guarantee instead of using a credit card. Here is my version:

page no. 45 of the PDF document in the link Rolly furnished on his website: http://rollybrook.com/car-in-M%C3%A9xico.htm.

17.- El plazo para retornar los vehiculos que hubieran sido importados temporalmente al amparo de las calidades migratorias señaladas en la ley, será el de la vigencia de la calidad migratoria, sus prórrogas, apliaciones o refrendos otorgados a dichas calidades migratorial conforme a Ley de la materia.

17.1.- Para estos efectos la prórroga de la vigencia del permiso de importación temporal del vehiculo se acreditará con el documento oficial que emita la autoridad migratoria, sin que se requira autorización de las autoridades aduaneras; en este caso, el permiso de importación temporal se mantendrá vigente aún y cuando el importador haya obtenido cambio en la calidad migratoria de no inmigrante a inmigrante rentista, siempre que exista continuidad en las calidades migratorias.

17.4.- En caso de que el trámite de importación temporal se haya efectuado mediante tarjeta bancaria, y la documentación esté completa, el responsable del CIITEV de la aduana que corresponda, procederá a informa al interesado que no es necesario la presentación de dicho aviso, en virtud de que su vehiculo se encuentra legal en el territorio nacional mientras continúe vigente su calidad migratoria, incluyendo sus prórrogas, ampliaciones o refrendos.

Which translates from Spanish—with unnecessary references to the law left out—to English via Google [with a tiny bit of massaging by me—strikethroughs and square brackets] as:

17.- The deadline to return the vehicles [that] had been imported temporarily under immigration grades defined by law, this means the effect of immigration status, extensions, or endorsements given to these ~~qualities migratorial~~ [types of immigration status]under the Act.

17.1.- For this purpose an extension of the duration of the temporary import permit of the vehicle will be credited with an official document issued by the immigration authorities, without the required authorization of the customs authorities, in this case, the temporary import permit will remain valid even and when the importer has obtained the change in immigration status of non-immigrant to immigrant ~~financier~~ [rentista], provided there is continuity in the ~~quality of migration~~ [immigration status].

17.4 .- If the temporary importation procedure has been made by credit card, and the documentation is complete, the head of CIITEV of the customs office, shall inform the person concerned [that it]is not necessary to submit such notice [that is required for those with a cash deposit guarantee (referring to paragraphs 17.2 and 17.3], ~~under~~ ~~your~~ [as their] vehicle is legal in the country while their immigration status remains in place, including extensions~~, extensions~~ or endorsements.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Apr 2, 2011, 7:46 PM)

almasoul

Apr 2, 2011, 8:57 PM

Post #12 of 46 (4646 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Some of us consider some kind of authoritative letter or simple document important. I now have been stopped twice in one week in 2 different areas of Michoacan where the police, etc. won't even read the copy of the law I keep in my car. Thanks to Ric, I am now going to add copies of the other relevant regs. I plan to highlight the key points to try to guide them more easily through the bureaucratic language. In addition, I am hoping an extension letter or brief letter of explanation on Aduana letterhead will be of additional assistance. i have read recently that folks were able to obtain letters in the SMA/Qto area as they were going through the same issues. Folks have stated that we don't have to worry because we are following the law and that police cannot hassle you about Aduana issues nor tow one's car, but what good is that if they go ahead and do it? The strange thing is that i have always been able to talk my way out of this issue as I have been stopped many times over the years (by local, state and fed folks), but the authorities I have come across lately have been getting more hardcore. I play the broken record, but it just isn't working as well. It seems to me I have heard there is some national telephone number one can call when one is stopped and one wants to verify the legitimacy of the "police" or to file an immediate complaint. Anyone heard of this or is this wishful thinking on my part?
Terry

panama john

Apr 3, 2011, 7:38 AM

Post #13 of 46 (4575 views)

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Re: [almasoul] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I have been stoped as well. So far nothing serious as I have been lucky enough to be stopped by reasonable police officers, but as you know there are many out there who are not reasonable or follow the law. If they decide to impound your car, they can do it, probably with impunity. Then you are faced with the hassle of going through the process of proving that the car is in the country legally. Maybe with an attorney and certainly with some stress and expenses. Some of them can be decent and helpful, but others can be pure sob's, depends on your luck. I personaly don't like to depend on luck. So I am going to keep my permit current, even though I have a FM3 and in the near future by a vehicle with Mexican plates. So I can drive around not worrying about being stoped and my car impounded.

Ric Hoffman

Apr 3, 2011, 8:17 AM

Post #14 of 46 (4558 views)

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Re: [almasoul] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Complaints may be filed with the Secretaria de Seguridad Publica online, via email, text or by calling the national denuncia numbers found at this link: http://tinyurl.com/national-help-line

Centro Nacional de Denuncia 088
Lada sin costo 01 800 440 3690
http://www.ssp.gob.mx/CNDDefWeb/portlets/CND/denuncia.do

Now I'd like to hear from readers who have actually had their vehicles impounded or have been issued citations for violating Article 106 of the Aduana Law. Not "I know someone" or "I have heard of someone" or "A friend knows of somone".

(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Apr 3, 2011, 8:22 AM)

sparks

Apr 3, 2011, 7:13 PM

Post #15 of 46 (4461 views)

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Re: [panama john] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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They will stop you for anything and everything if they want money. They don't stop you for the permit ... they stop you for nothing and look for something

I went to Manzanillo Aduana asking about permits and they said they are not needed if you have one and a valid FM3. How then can I get a new sticker without driving to the border which I won't do

If they want us to be up to date with vehicles in Mexico, I suggest states issue a yearly sticker just like US registration. I'd gladly pay and more money for them. Problem is what state agency ya gonna pay

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

bournemouth

Apr 3, 2011, 7:23 PM

Post #16 of 46 (4453 views)

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Re: [sparks] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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That explains why the Federale who stopped us, eventually let us go. He was on his phone calling the Aduana in the port at Manzanillo, then told us we could leave. Even waved goodbye as we left.

Rolly

Apr 3, 2011, 7:44 PM

Post #17 of 46 (4449 views)

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Re: [sparks] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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"How then can I get a new sticker without driving to the border which I won't do."
It's not about getting a new sticker; it's letting Aduana know that you have renewed your visa.

Rolly Pirate

sparks

Apr 4, 2011, 6:12 AM

Post #18 of 46 (4418 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Next time I'm in the area and have lots of time ... I'll ask if they have a form and receipt to issue. Last time I was there I waited 1/2 hour for someone to come downstairs with the definitive answer. I would have left but I really wanted to know

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

panama john

Apr 4, 2011, 6:26 AM

Post #19 of 46 (4416 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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I guess that's not an option for you Rolly, but I travel to the border a few times a year and intend to keep my sticker current. Only to avoid being hasseled by some rouge cops. I think the best option is to drive a vehicle with Mexican plates.

Marlene

Apr 4, 2011, 10:23 AM

Post #20 of 46 (4370 views)

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Re: [panama john] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Having Mexican plates is no guarantee against getting stopped for a shake-down, when a traffic cop is so inclined. We see far more Mexican plated cars stopped roadside, than foreign plated ones.

Ric Hoffman

Apr 4, 2011, 5:23 PM

Post #21 of 46 (4305 views)

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Re: [sparks] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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The notification is not required if you paid for your bond (sticker) with a credit card and meet the INM requirements as listed in Article 106 of the Aduana Law. However, if you want to send in notification you can do so.

The form to notify Aduana of your change can be found at anexo 2 of the manual. Aviso de Prorroga, Ampliacion o Refrendo. You can use Rolly's link or the tinyurl provided below. Or visit the official Aduana web site.

Manual de Operación para la Importación Temporal de Vehículos y Motocicletas Abril 2010 http://tinyurl.com/manual-24032011

(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Apr 4, 2011, 5:45 PM)

Rolly

Apr 4, 2011, 6:22 PM

Post #22 of 46 (4286 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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There are problems with trying to use the form at anexo 2.
1. The PDF file has the copy command blocked.
2. The form is a poorly done scan that makes it pretty useless.

I have a version of the PDF file with the copy command enabled.
I played with anexo 2 until I was satisfied that it is a lost cause.
So if you want to use the form, you'll have to get a clean copy from Aduana.

Others have had success sending their own letter with copies of their FM3 and the TIP card.
I have made such a lefter that I plan to take to my Aduana office soon.
I'll report what happens.

YMMV

Rolly Pirate

mazbook1

Apr 4, 2011, 6:48 PM

Post #23 of 46 (4274 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Rolly, I'll agree that the PDF at the link provided is of terrible, probably unusable quality. However, FYI those copy-protected PDFs can be copied and pasted to a blank Word document, as follows: First, highlight what you want to copy (don't worry if it seems that it automatically highlights more); second, instead of going to the unusable but normal "Copy" (in the pull-down from "Edit" at the top of the screen) just hold the RIGHT-HAND button on your mouse and you will see how to copy your highlighted area. Do so, paste the copy to the Word document, print it out and you have a paper copy that you can fill out. The Word copy cannot be edited, although if you picked up a bunch of unnecessary stuff, that can be deleted using the Word "crop picture" thing before printing, as what you have done is copy the PDF as a picture to Word. It can only be printed and used that way.

I actually did this with that PDF, but the scan quality was so poor that even the printed version was unusable.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Apr 4, 2011, 6:49 PM)

almasoul

Apr 5, 2011, 2:25 AM

Post #24 of 46 (4244 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Today I was stopped again on my way into Morelia by the transit folks. I guess Monday is the day they are setting up their checkpoint as I was stopped last Monday as well. However, today I was not held for such a long time as a 2nd officer came over to my car and he eventually said to let me go. I kindly asked him to inform his colleagues of the law. So it seems there is inconsistency in knowledge and enforcement. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Also, I want to thank you all for your assistance as it has been very helpful. I should hear from Morelia Aduana in a week or so. If I don't hear from them, I will follow up and let you know what I learn.

Anonimo

Apr 5, 2011, 4:58 AM

Post #25 of 46 (4239 views)

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Re: [almasoul] Are we required to renew our vehicle permits each year?

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Wow, Almasoul; you seem to show up on their radar. What a drag.

After you get your new registration papers back from Aduana, how will that affect your status with the transitos? We want to know, as we went to the same Aduana and updated our importation status. So far, we've not been stopped, but then, we went to Morelia on Thursday, not Monday.

Separately: about copying from the PDF: I'm using Apple Mac Preview as a PDF reader. I'm able to select and copy sections and paste them into a fresh Text-Edit document (I don't have Word.). However, it's an image, not a text paste. Like I can't paste it here. However, I can isolate copied sections as a new PDF document, and save them.

saludos,
Anonimo

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