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mevale

Mar 29, 2011, 9:50 AM

Post #26 of 62 (1976 views)

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Re: [T] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Clearly, you do not live in lakeside, nor have you visited. Between Americans and Canadians which are about 95% of our expat population, we are the primary employers in lakeside of locals. Between the 20,000 mas o menos of us, we provide employment to maids, gardeners, restaurant staff, restaurant owners, retailers, construction workers and the list goes on ad infinitum A day without foreigners in lakeside, would be a day of desolation for our area. T.


Where do you come up with 20,000 ex-pats?


johanson


Mar 29, 2011, 9:55 AM

Post #27 of 62 (1971 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Well said Gringal


Rolly


Mar 29, 2011, 10:15 AM

Post #28 of 62 (1958 views)

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Re: [mevale] Anti-American Sentiment?

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This quote is from a USA Today article:

...Lake Chapala, where an estimated 20,000 U.S. and Canadian expatriates — split roughly equally between the two nationalities — reside during the winter months.

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Mar 29, 2011, 10:16 AM)


bournemouth

Mar 29, 2011, 10:16 AM

Post #29 of 62 (1956 views)

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Re: [mevale] Anti-American Sentiment?

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A figment of the imagination perhaps??


mexicobuff

Mar 29, 2011, 10:17 AM

Post #30 of 62 (1955 views)

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Re: [johanson] Anti-American Sentiment?

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All I can tell you is, that now that I speak Spanish (not perfectly by any means) life is so much better. And some of my Mexican friends share some of their negative feelings with me about those of us who have been here many years and still don't speak Spanish.

They believe that here in Mexico, the better educated Mexican speaks several languages, while the poorly educated usually do not. They don't always believe that in the US for example, many well educated persons do not learn to speak a 2nd language. Rather they often look down upon us when we don't. And assume we are lower class and often have to come to Mexico to live because we can't afford to live in the states.

Please don't attack me for these comments. I'm only telling you what some of my Mexican friends think.

You know the old joke?
--What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
--What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
Bilingual.
--What do you call someone who speaks one language?
--American.

And by the way, many very poor Mexicans are indigenous and are completely bilingual: they speak both their indigenous language and Spanish.
NB Email modified to avoid duplication with Esperanza's email of patalarga@gmail.com


bournemouth

Mar 29, 2011, 11:18 AM

Post #31 of 62 (1938 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Rolly - you believe USA today?


Rolly


Mar 29, 2011, 11:37 AM

Post #32 of 62 (1934 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Anti-American Sentiment?

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I don't have a dog in this fight. I just answered the question where the 20,000 number came from.
Personally, I have no idea what the real number is, and I doubt anyone else does.

Rolly Pirate


T

Mar 29, 2011, 12:52 PM

Post #33 of 62 (1909 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Agree with you, totally. Who knows. We are all just guessing. T.


T

Mar 29, 2011, 12:59 PM

Post #34 of 62 (1908 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Tony,

I agree. That is why I was area specific. T


T

Mar 29, 2011, 1:04 PM

Post #35 of 62 (1901 views)

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Re: [RickS] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Bennie García

Mar 29, 2011, 1:06 PM

Post #36 of 62 (1900 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Anti-American Sentiment?

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In Reply To
...Lake Chapala, where an estimated 20,000 U.S. and Canadian expatriates — split roughly equally between the two nationalities — reside during the winter months.


The qualifier here is "during the winter months". Tack on "estimated" and you are probably far from the amount of foreigners that reside full time at the lake.

A well off family from Guadalajara that owns a home at the lake probably spends more on a weekend visit than the average foreign retiree spends in a month.


T

Mar 29, 2011, 1:06 PM

Post #37 of 62 (1900 views)

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Re: [RickS] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Thanks , Rick. Mi mucho estupido. T.


Reefhound


Mar 29, 2011, 1:07 PM

Post #38 of 62 (1900 views)

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Re: [mexicobuff] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Ironically, far more American residents speak Spanish than Mexican residents speak English, in both absolute numbers and percentages. The U.S. has the second largest Spanish speaking population in the world, behind Mexico and ahead of Spain.

Now the disclaimer - over 16% of the U.S. population is Hispanic. Take away immigration and you would pretty much have a monolinguistic country. The arrival of Europeans pretty much killed the Native American languages.


tonyburton


Mar 29, 2011, 1:44 PM

Post #39 of 62 (1885 views)

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Re: [T] Anti-American Sentiment?

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We most certainly do not agree, since it is apparent that you equate "Lakeside" (which you used, whatever it means) with "Ajijic" (which I used).


T

Mar 29, 2011, 1:52 PM

Post #40 of 62 (1877 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Lakeside, to us that live here, is commonly known as the area on the north shore of the lake from Chapala to Jocotopec. Ajijic would totally collapse, but other areas in Lakeside would be severely damaged, as well. Sorry, we do not agree. T.


prorader

Mar 29, 2011, 2:21 PM

Post #41 of 62 (1873 views)

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Re: [johanson] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Move out of the Lake side like I did, my spanish sucks, and I get laughed at alot but try looking and giving respect to those that live with you it goes a long way. I know I get asked all the time ask Pete after 5 years why is you spanish so bad, my answer I don't try very hard and frankly I don't care. I respect you as a person and it shows in my attitude, my daily life. They ask and I say I am a stupid Gringo and smile they laugh you no stupid gringo you are my amigo and our life goes on
PS: I keep saying I am going to try harder but this is about as far as I get (Quiero más tequila)


(This post was edited by prorader on Mar 29, 2011, 2:24 PM)


johanson


Mar 29, 2011, 2:50 PM

Post #42 of 62 (1859 views)

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Re: [prorader] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Although you make a great point Prorader, I have too many good friends here, both English speaking and Spanish speaking to want to leave. However I try to spend 2 Hrs or so per day speaking Spanish. You're learning faster than I because it sounds like you speak Spanish 90% of the time.

Keep it up and soon you will speak so much better that they won't tease you anymore.


richmx2


Mar 29, 2011, 3:22 PM

Post #43 of 62 (1841 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Anti-American Sentiment?

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The arrival of Europeans pretty much killed the Native American languages.

The arrival of the Europeans killed the Native Americans. That's better. Probably mass media and poor language education killed off the minority languages more than anything.

The U.S. used to be more multilingual. I haven't hit official geezerhood yet, though I'm eligible to join AARP, but I can remember Italian and Arabic being spoken regularly in my hometown in western New York up into the 1970s. Local politicians put out their propaganda in the minority languages (in Buffalo, the billboards were in Polish, and in Rochester in Ukranian).

It's only been as Spanish became more prevalent, and Spanish-speakers were seen as "racially" different — and the nebulous political classification "Hispanic" was invented by the Nixon Administration — that language use became a political issue in the U.S.

I can accept that knowledge that "English-only" attitudes being known in Mexico probably account for some dislike among Mexicans for foreign tourists (and clueless, or at least linguistically challenged, expats), but probably more a symptom of the general sense that we are stereotyped as LOUD and arrogant.


The bus I take to work is also a main route for tourists going from the centro back out to the resort hotels and gringo gulch. More than once I've been tempted to slap someone silly and remind them that a good number of Mexicans understand English, including the guys seven or eight seats back who are really, really pissed.


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com


prorader

Mar 29, 2011, 3:36 PM

Post #44 of 62 (1837 views)

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Re: [johanson] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Tell the truth Pete the big white thing on the mountain and the little one next to it doesn't help you to leave, besides you spend as much time stateside as you do lakeside. I am just speaking in general terms, people are people , if you treat a dog like a dog he may just bite you. I now have lived lakeside, colima, and san jose de gracia they all have there good and bad, I can't get my allspice seasoned salt here but again , I have known those on both sides of the tracks and I respect them and they leave me alone and the world continues to go on. I am going to move again, a new adventure and new people but same attitude. You are different even where you live, as well as you know there are a lot of want a be's, and those that where poor stateside but now to the world they are rich, that is why you are different you are who you are and what you say you are and that is it, my friend


chinagringo


Mar 30, 2011, 5:48 PM

Post #45 of 62 (1725 views)

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Re: [gene089] Anti-American Sentiment?

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We have just spent a couple of days in Sedona, AZ and in talking to shopkeepers, gallery owners and a number of other business types whose income is generated by tourists - one common theme has come out. There has been a definite drop off that they attribute more to the actions by the State of Arizona than to the economy and they were not referring to a drop off of visitors from Mexico!

As for gene089's contention that Americans or Gringos in general have enjoyed some sort of protective cloak, I personally cannot buy into that theory!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Reefhound


Mar 30, 2011, 7:26 PM

Post #46 of 62 (1698 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Anti-American Sentiment?

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I think that's wishful thinking by those with an agenda. The Arizona Office of Tourism shows total sales of related industries 2010 unchanged from total 2009 and Jan 2011 up 8% over Jan 2010. Of course this includes restaurants and bars that are affected by local activity.

Numbers of airline passengers are only thru Nov 2010 but YTD Jan-Nov 2010 is up 2.5% over 2009. Probably the better indicator is the charts of lodging occupancy rates for Arizona and the overall U.S., both showing occupancy for 2010 up 5.7% over 2009.

By all statistics I've seen, Arizona performance is in line with regional and U.S. performance. There are always winners and losers in the game but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that is is state targeted.


chinagringo


Mar 31, 2011, 8:12 AM

Post #47 of 62 (1630 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Anti-American Sentiment?

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I see! So the numbers from Arizona Tourism are not to be questioned! Coming from the same member, who constantly disputes numbers from the Mexican Govt. Sure the merchants have an agenda and that is realizing their sales goals so that they can stay in business. What a concept! I can say that we noticed numerous empty store fronts and a number of resorts that have recently gone through bankruptcy auctions. How much of this is due to the economy and how much is due to an Arizona Backlash probably will never be determined but to simply deny the presence of a backlash while sitting in another state indicates an agenda.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Reefhound


Mar 31, 2011, 8:29 AM

Post #48 of 62 (1623 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Question them all you want. I personally had long forgotten about the whole Arizona "boycott" issue and didn't realize anyone was still yapping about that, so when you brought it up I simply did some basic looking to see if Arizona tourism was performing below regional and national tourism. I didn't conduct a "study" or do any massive research but I didn't find any such evidence of this. Maybe you can do better.


cookj5

Mar 31, 2011, 3:20 PM

Post #49 of 62 (1559 views)

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Re: [gene089] Anti-American Sentiment?

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I, too, expected some evidence of anti-American sentiment when I moved down 4 years ago. After all, Mexico has been getting a bad rap in the US forever, and some of it extremely vicious. I live in Ajijic, but have traveled extensively over a great part of Mexico. In all that time, I only met one Mexican who was unpleasant to me. He was a "big city" Guadalajaran visiting Ajijic, and I think his problem was that he was basically a jerk, not that he was anti-American.

Overwhelmingly, I have found Mexicans to be warm, friendly, almost invariably courteous, and ready to assist and even open their homes to me with no expectation of gain. I found myself so astonished by this, since it ran so diametrically against my expectations, that I took to asking Mexicans I encountered about whether they thought the presence of so many foreigners was always a positive thing. The universal response was "of course!" The reasons varied, sometimes economic: "foreigners provide so many jobs" and sometimes that they saw foreigners as generous with their money and assistance to local charities, and sometimes a considerable admiration was expressed for aspects of the American or Canadian culture, such as our high levels of voluntarism and dynamism.

Now, if this response just happened sometimes, or was given grudgingly, or in otherwise suspect circumstances, I would have thought, "oh, they're just telling me what they think I want to hear." But the responses seemed so forthright, genuine, spontaneous, and above all universal that I can't help but think they were real. I will grant that these were only my personal experiences, and that others may have different ones, but they are the experiences of 4 years of interactions all over Mexico.

I just hope that I and other Americans in Mexico will continue to act in ways that will deserve all those positive feelings from our Mexican hosts.


mexicobuff

Mar 31, 2011, 4:29 PM

Post #50 of 62 (1543 views)

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Re: [cookj5] Anti-American Sentiment?

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Please! What people tell you to your face and what people say when you're not present are mostly diametrically opposed to one another. Smiling natives indeed: the most accurate part of your post is "almost invariably courteous", which would preclude telling you to your face that you too are a jerk.

Cookj5, I don't mean that you personally are a jerk--I don't know you at all. But to believe that bowing and scraping natives don't resent your presence is naive at best. As I was once told by a cab driver in San Miguel de Allende, "Los gringos ya nos quitaron todo lo que antes era el centro de San Miguel. Ahora parece Disneylandia y no hay ni un mexicano común que puede alcanzar comprar una casa acá." Same story in Ajijic, pal, trust me. You may never see the resentment (almost invariably courteous, remember), but it's there, it's there.

Here's something to think about: once I was innocent. Then I was naive. Now I'm just stupid.
NB Email modified to avoid duplication with Esperanza's email of patalarga@gmail.com
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