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richmx2


Mar 21, 2011, 12:57 PM

Post #26 of 66 (1284 views)

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Re: [playaboy] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Of course, how much of the RV business is down everywhere, even for domestic travelers within the U.S. and Canada?


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Moisheh

Mar 21, 2011, 2:15 PM

Post #27 of 66 (1265 views)

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Re: [richmx2] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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David HF: Make up your mind do you want to speak of RV'rs or winter guests. Not the same ! According to what I have read and seen RV tourism is down by about 50% compared to other years. And yes RV'rs make up a very small portion of the tourism in Mexico. All tourism is down by way more than 50% in Acapulco. In December El Imparcial did a story on how 5000 service employees in hotels and Restaurants were laid off. Another 4000 were only working when there was a fiesta or a puente. Unless something changes I think that all of Mexico is going to suffer. So far the Maquiladoras have not closed any plants due to the violence. Foreign investment in Mexico is way up. But will that continue with increasing violence? Quien sabe!

Moisheh

DavidHF

Mar 22, 2011, 2:54 PM

Post #28 of 66 (1188 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I've said nothing about RVers and don't intend too. My comments concerned only the number of seasonal visitors, primarily Canadians, to the Lake Chapala area. The Tourism Secretariat recently announced that tourism for the entire country is up substantially over the previous two years. I don't know about RVers. I suspect that many folks, like Chinagringo, have chosen to fly rather than drive. Never the less, the major tourism magnets such as Puerto Vallarta and the Riviera Maya seem to be doing rather well.

robt65

Mar 22, 2011, 4:54 PM

Post #29 of 66 (1164 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello DavidHF,

I have been following this interesting post as I believe it provides some good insight into a certainly an apparently contentious subject. I think you would have to admit David, that (as everyone living there would have us believe) Lake Chapala is a rather unique neighborhood (area if you will) along with SMA. I don't believe though that one could make a valid argument that Lake Chapala could be called "representative" of all of Mexico either . . . . . . . a part of the equation, . . . . . yes certainly, . . . . . but not what any statistician would call representative of all of Mexico. Let’s face it a great amount of money is spent in advertising telling the world just how different Lake Chapala is and let’s face it . . . . . from what I have read here and then again on other posts, the freshly washed (previously dirty) laundry of Lake Chapala is certainly never “air dried” outside on the line so to speak for all to see. From what I have read on this and other posts, there have been murders and intimidation regarding real-estate transactions in Lake Chapala . . . . . God forbid that ever gets out (for example in Real Estate Advertising) on a grand scale.(smiling)

I think the author of this post has certainly started a good controversial post with some interesting answers. It will be interesting to see how this post proceeds. While the original posting was “How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region.” I think that Zacatecas would probably be considered a “different region, than Lake Chapala, would it not? I think that while the Lake Chapala area would indeed probably be considered a different region, so are the areas that Moisheh travels in as well. I follow his posts and he certainly has a recent comprehensive viewpoint of many regions that maybe most of us do not as his frequency of travel shows. He is an RV’er and that again is one different set of economic possibilities than is General Tourism as a whole, but none the less still a factor and a large one at that. Similarly Lake Chapala offers yet a different set of factors to the general “tourism” (original question) still an equally if not different as a factor to be considered.
So let the posting run it’s course and after all the different factors are in, maybe a realistic summation of tourism as a whole in Mexico will show itself. Thanks Jerezano for the posting. I for one will wait to form an opinion.

robt65

chinagringo


Mar 22, 2011, 6:10 PM

Post #30 of 66 (1148 views)

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Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Since David brought up our change in travel methods, I think many have made modifications to their norm and maybe some might define us as worry-worts. I do know that David and his wife have attended the LPGA Golf Tournament in Morelia in years past. Because of security concerns, that event will not be held this year. I would speculate that this cancellation has had a negative impact on the tourist revenue in Morelia.

Robt65's point that both the San Miguel de Allende and Lake Chapala areas are somewhat unique microcosms is well taken and very valid! However, when one does some digging below the "smokescreen", they haven't been without problems and there is certainly no evidence that they are immune from possible future problems on a larger scale. At this point, it would be pure speculation to predict either way.

Going back to the point being made about RV's, I would have to say it makes perfect sense to me that the RV'ers with large expensive motorhomes or those with fifth wheels might just be hesitant to take them into problematic areas. Large target with trouble getting out of the way. Should the spiraling energy costs keep heading upwards NOB, Mexico may become more attractive with their controlled fuel costs.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM


Reefhound


Mar 22, 2011, 6:13 PM

Post #31 of 66 (1147 views)

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Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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There seem to be sectors that have been devastated and sectors that are booming. It seems to be that any "driving" destination is hurting. The RV industry is hurting. Another sector that is hurting is the day crossings along the border. Those cities that are now war zones and nearly devoid of visitors and night life were once bustling shopping zones.

robt65

Mar 22, 2011, 7:15 PM

Post #32 of 66 (1129 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello reefhound,

Another excellent point and excellent demographic. "Border towns" Of course, why didn't I think of that? Probably the same reason that David HF didn't relate to "RV'ers", but did to "snowbirds" . . . . . . . I didn't relate to that factor personally (except to get through the government hoops) coming into Mexico and getting through there unscathed. That for sure is another whole and large region. Reason why it is a factor notwithstanding . . . . . . still a very valid factor. It seems that there is not one single factor, but that many factors are intertwined along with the basic, (as this post stated) Narco factor. At least that's the way I am starting to see it . . . . . certainly a different view than I originally thought I would. I do know that every trip I take one way or the other . . . . . the "Black Bean" theory comes to my mind, prayers are more frequent and other personal changes occur during that trip, until 1. either I am safely home with my family or 2. I am safely back across NOB.

Travel well

robt65

DavidHF

Mar 22, 2011, 7:19 PM

Post #33 of 66 (1125 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The Reef's point is good and he made it more succinctly than my attempt; folks who normally would drive to Mexico have backed off. The question posited by the OP was, "How the narco violence is affecting tourism in MY region." My reply was based on my observance of "snowbird" activity in MY region, Lake Chapala, and it's up. I also cited comments made by the Secretariat of Tourism concerning tourism in general, it's up too. Whether or not Lake Chapala, SMA, or any other region are in any way "unique" is beside the point, every area is unique but all areas are not tourist destinations.

Bennie García

Mar 22, 2011, 8:19 PM

Post #34 of 66 (1110 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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I'd love to see a cite for the tourist figures you are quoting. Having a home on the Jalisco coast and knowing many involved in the tourist industry from Manzanillo to PV, I know for a fact that tourism was worse this year than last.

I have made 5 trips to the coast since the first of the year and there is no way I will believe a Secretary's stats. I detect "spin" to deflect the heavily negative publicity the country has been getting recently.

Reefhound


Mar 22, 2011, 9:02 PM

Post #35 of 66 (1098 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Not sure what the point in providing references is when you say upfront you aren't going to believe the stats from the Secretariat. Anyway, best I could find, for whatever it's worth, is this PDF document where the numbers for 2010 are not complete but through 3 quarters the Year To Date shows Mexico (number 10 on the chart) up 7.2% over 2009, with third quarter up 15% over 2009 Q3.

When you say "worse this year" do you mean so far in 2011 or the totals for 2010?

tashby


Mar 22, 2011, 9:44 PM

Post #36 of 66 (1090 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Quote
The question posited by the OP was, "How the narco violence is affecting tourism in MY region." My reply was based on my observance of "snowbird" activity in MY region, Lake Chapala, and it's up.

Seems the opposite to me, but I've only lived here three years, so what do I know. Just about everybody I talk to in the Lake Chapala area says tourism is down, and that this year there are somewhat fewer Canadians than normal, and a LOT fewer from the U.S., even compared to last year. (Wasn't there that "Swine Flu" thing last year.....so year-over-year statistics would be kinda meaningless?)

Anyway, my guess is it has a less to do with the NarcoViolenceVoodoo, and a lot more to do with the crap economic environment in the U.S.


(This post was edited by tashby on Mar 22, 2011, 9:48 PM)

Bennie García

Mar 22, 2011, 9:47 PM

Post #37 of 66 (1085 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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T-H-I-S year. As in not last year or any other year.

robt65

Mar 22, 2011, 10:34 PM

Post #38 of 66 (1070 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Hello reefhound,

I think that you are quite correct. Traditionally "this year" as in regards to tourism or RV'ing, includes both the fourth quarter of one year and the first quarter of the following year. Now that maybe pretty high tech for some people to understand, but it all has to do with weather (snowbirds escaping snow and cold from the North), winter holidays, spring breaks and times of tourist influx. Since the fourth quarter of T-H-I-S year has not arrived yet some people may have only a half %$# answer.

robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on Mar 22, 2011, 10:40 PM)

Moisheh

Mar 23, 2011, 5:57 AM

Post #39 of 66 (1055 views)

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Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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The Mexican Government has always published statistics that are innacurate. Sometimes it is because they do not have correct data and sometimes it is because they do not want the truth to be published. Even bad statistics are hard to find. Try to find the number of bus accidents in a given year. Better yet try to find he number of people killed in bus accidents in a given year. Just 3 months ago El Imparcial had one article with quotes from the Federal Tourism Secretary stating that tourism is up all over Mexico. On the opposing page 3 State Governors were asking the Feds to stop spending $$ on advertising tourism in MEXICO. They felt that using the word Mexico was the cause of the lack of tourism ( bad reputation). Rather they wanted the Feds to use the names of the states, regions or cities. Reading these articles who do you believe? Is tourism up or down? It is probable that tourism by Mexicans is up. The middle class is doing quite well and they are able to travel and have a good time. But are Americans and Canadians flocking to Mexico as before? I doubt it. Cruise ships have canceled stops in Maz. due to violence ( or the fear of violence). This has been on again and off again. If you were Calderon would you admit that the vioilence has affected tourism when you are also stating that you have won the war on drugs? Calderon even asked newspapers to focus on something other than violence as it has affected the image of Mexico. Very little of what is happening is ever published. Perhpas due to fear of the cartels or maybe fear of the Gov.? Without a proper press the truth is suppresed. Without these truths how can statistics be trusted?

Moisheh


(This post was edited by Moisheh on Mar 23, 2011, 6:13 AM)

Bennie García

Mar 23, 2011, 6:08 AM

Post #40 of 66 (1048 views)

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Re: [robt65] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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 The OP asked how tourism is being affected in your area. Do you have an opinion based on present reality to post or are you just attempting a lame dig?

And regardless, tourism last December (2010, if that makes you happy), usually one of the busiest months of the year, was way down in this part of Mexico.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 23, 2011, 6:11 AM)

Moisheh

Mar 23, 2011, 6:16 AM

Post #41 of 66 (1042 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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GEE Bennie: What is your problem? When people posted opinions you wanted statistics. Now you are asking for opinions???

Moisheh

Bennie García

Mar 23, 2011, 6:27 AM

Post #42 of 66 (1036 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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What is your problem? He hasn't offered either, has he?

And I didn't ask David (not reefer or robt) for the stats as some sort of proof of present tourism levels but just to see what BS the Tourism Secretary is trying to fool people with.

Stats or no stats, I think you'll be hard pressed to find many people saying tourism is up this year.

chinagringo


Mar 23, 2011, 7:26 AM

Post #43 of 66 (1026 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Not saying that I am or am not buying into this story but I thought it is relative to this current discussion:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...med-by-violence.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM


chinagringo


Mar 23, 2011, 7:56 AM

Post #44 of 66 (1018 views)

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Re: [Rolly] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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An article on the General from today's Borderland Beat:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...chief-of-public.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM


Moisheh

Mar 23, 2011, 8:22 AM

Post #45 of 66 (1008 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Bennie: I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were doubting that tourism had dropped.

Moisheh

Reefhound


Mar 23, 2011, 9:04 AM

Post #46 of 66 (981 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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"It is probable that tourism by Mexicans is up."

I think it's just the opposite. It's the destinations mainly visited by foreigners (i.e. Cancun, Coz, Cabo) that are reportedly booming and the destinations mainly visited by nationals (i.e. Acapulco) that are suffering.

Seeing as we have not even reached the end of Q1 in 2011 and few stats have been compiled, it seems premature to be drawing conclusions about 2011. I would never put all my faith into stats by the Mexican (or U.S.) government, I simply tossed out what I had found for people to do with as they please. I think swine flu was in 2009, not last year.

Bennie García

Mar 23, 2011, 11:13 AM

Post #47 of 66 (950 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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[reply
It's the destinations mainly visited by foreigners (i.e. Cancun, Coz, Cabo) that are reportedly booming .......

How about showing us some of these reports on the "booming" tourist numbers?

tonyburton


Mar 23, 2011, 11:17 AM

Post #48 of 66 (944 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Everything is relative.
The main reason tourism has been up in 2010 and the start of 2001 is because it was so far down in 2008-9.

Bennie García

Mar 23, 2011, 11:26 AM

Post #49 of 66 (938 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Who says it is up? This article certainly doesn't.

http://www.noticaribe.com.mx/...akers-en-mexico.html


"Ludwig Estrada, director de Turismo de la Secretaría de Turismo de Jalisco, reconoció que este año sí se ha resentido una baja en la llegada de viajeros estadounidenses."

robt65

Mar 23, 2011, 11:51 AM

Post #50 of 66 (932 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] How the narco violence is affecting tourism in my region

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Bennie .
It is very difficult if not impossible at times to follow your train of thought and expression. In your post of Mar 23, 2011 - 6:27 AM - Post #42 of 46, you state “What is your problem? He hasn't offered either, has he?” I think but I am not sure if you are referring to the previous post to yours #42 of 46 of if you are referring to the OP post # 1 in which I believe that Jerezano clearly states in his OP a stat regarding hotel occupancy backed up by a link . Of course it was also clearly stated in the OP’s post that it was a hotel stat and nothing else.
If you are referring to my posting of an opinion, I clearly stated Mar 22, 2011, 4:54 PM - Post #29 of 46 (207 views)
“So let the posting run its course and after all the different factors are in, maybe a realistic summation of tourism as a whole in Mexico will show itself. Thanks Jerezano for the posting. I for one will wait to form an educated opinion.”
I for one believe there are too many personal opinions and not enough fact either backed up by links or the fact that as others I believe the “facts” as reported by the various Mexican government departments are not creditable. To see television live photos during Spring Breaks that actually show hotel and restaurant staff waiting around with their hands in their pockets during lunch and dinner times and empty guest parking lots empty at night say a lot. When you actually hear the restaurant employees and owners state they are very low in attendance of not only American and Canadian tourists but also of Mexican tourists . . . . . well a picture is worth a thousand words. The OP gave a select example of Hotel stats.
Many on this post have given their opinions based upon more than only hotel stats. Some are generalizing and some are listing NOB tourists and some Mexican tourists. I have my personal thoughts that I think it is probable that tourism is way down but I certainly have no facts of any kind to back up those personal thoughts.
“Unsubstantiated personal thoughts” in my opinion, do not form a valid opinion and can only serve to continue to frighten away people or potential tourists. I think that we all need to better our own reply's and present more qualified answers WITH appropriate links to be taken seriously. There are many different "reports and he said she said going on here with out reliable links it is impossible to form a valid opinion.

Robt65
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