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T

Mar 12, 2011, 2:57 PM

Post #1 of 27 (2757 views)

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Bagels and butter milk

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Love bagels and know what they are, as I lived in a Jewish area for many years. Nothing better than a bagel with cream cheese, smoked salmon and a few capers tossed on top. Where can I get real bagels in lakeside? So far, I have found nothing other than bread, shaped like bagels.

May I toss buttermilk into the equation? Being a southern US boy, I love buttermilk and can drink it by the gallon as well as using it in recipes. Super Lake stopped carrying it about a year and a half ago. Guess they found out I was their only customer. Any help will be appreciated. T



Camille

Mar 15, 2011, 11:29 PM

Post #2 of 27 (2614 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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Best sub I know is Alpura Natural yogurt, sin azucar, diluted with water. My cornbread can't tell the difference. If you're more interested in drinking it, I'd fiddle around with a yogurt/milk/crema acicificada mix. In fact, I think I'll play with that a bit... a cold glass of buttermilk sounds great right now! Served in a cobalt blue glass just like my Grandma Nini's.....


T

Mar 16, 2011, 1:56 PM

Post #3 of 27 (2557 views)

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Re: [Camille] Bagels and butter milk

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  I love white cornbread made with buttermilk, but all I can find is yellow cornmeal down here. Mom used to make white cornbread with buttermilk in a cast iron skillet with bacon grease, and then slathered with butter while warm. A mental orgasm just thinking about it. I will try your suggestion, as I have seen that yoghurt. Many thanks. T


RickS


Mar 16, 2011, 8:17 PM

Post #4 of 27 (2527 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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" Mom used to make white cornbread with buttermilk in a cast iron skillet with bacon grease, and then slathered with butter while warm."

That being said, I'd suspect that "Mom" was from the south like my Mom!


Anonimo

Mar 17, 2011, 5:16 AM

Post #5 of 27 (2493 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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I'd be thrilled and satisfied to find yellow cornmeal here in Michoacán. Then I wouldn't have to haul it down here over the border.

Similarly, we buy SACO Powdered Cultured Buttermilk NOB. It's fine for baking, but not for drinking.

Saludos,
Anonimo


Zardoz

Mar 17, 2011, 7:49 AM

Post #6 of 27 (2470 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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Best bagels I have found down here are frozen at Wal Mart. They are a little bit bready but not nearly as
bready as the other bagels down here. Brand is New York deli and bagel. They have english muffins also.
I keep both frozen and thaw in the microwave and toast. Watch the cream cheese down here. I think
some of it is old or frozen improperly. I buy the philly never never trust the wal mart brand. It is not
eatable. Tried it twice threw it away after one taste. Some of the italian/spanish ham goes quite well
with a bagel and cream cheese. You can find a good choice of potential toppings next to the bakery
in Wal Mart. Yep it is still not quite like a fresh proper bagel but you know it ain't bad. Now if only I
could find someone to split a sunday new york times with.


T

Mar 17, 2011, 1:41 PM

Post #7 of 27 (2431 views)

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Re: [RickS] Bagels and butter milk

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Rural Kentucky. Spent many a wonderful summer with her aunts and cousins. Boy, could those folks cook. Their fried chicken was incredible. I had a great aunt who lived in Winchester, Ky. She ran a tourist home out of her large house. Nowadays it would be called a B and B. She had the first home in Winchester to have indoor plumbing and indoor bathroom. You had to duck to get into the bathroom,as it was built under the staircase to the second floor. The heating was provided by fireplaces in every single room, although they had been converted to gas when I was a kid. We had to close the doors to rooms that were not being used and only heat the rooms that we were using. Ahhh, memories. T.


chinagringo


Mar 17, 2011, 2:22 PM

Post #8 of 27 (2419 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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Is this turning into Facebook?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



RickS


Mar 17, 2011, 3:28 PM

Post #9 of 27 (2405 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Bagels and butter milk

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"Is this turning into Facebook"

Yes, but we aren't going to 'friend' you! ;>)


chinagringo


Mar 17, 2011, 5:55 PM

Post #10 of 27 (2387 views)

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Re: [RickS] Bagels and butter milk

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OOPS! My mistake since I failed to realize that there was a Kentucky State in Mexico.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



jckottler

Mar 19, 2011, 7:38 AM

Post #11 of 27 (2274 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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       I'm Jewish and love bagels, but to tell you the truth, real bagels disappeared decades ago, even in New York City. As an adult, I wondered why it was harder and harder to find a good bagel. When I visited a friend in New Jersey, I found out the answer. The bagel shop near him had wonderful bagels like I ate as a child. The reason they were so good was that they were hand rolled. When machine rolled bagels came in, it saved the bagel shops a lot of money. Unfortunately, machine rolled bagels are very tough compared to tender, hand rolled bagels. Today, I'd guess there are only a few hand rolled bagel stores in all of the U. S. It's too bad that bagels never became popular in Mexico. Labor is so cheap here that they'd never have switched to the machines.
By the way, the reason supermarket bagels are so lousy is that they are steamed, not boiled, before baking. At least modern NOB bagel shops boil their bagels. You can also make your own bagels, but make sure to boil them before you bake them. And when you cut them, don't cut them flat on a cutting board, cut them while holding with one hand while cutting with the other.


La Isla


Mar 19, 2011, 10:20 AM

Post #12 of 27 (2247 views)

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Re: [jckottler] Bagels and butter milk

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I'm Jewish too and a real bagel maven. In my opinion, if it isn't boiled before it's baked, it's not a real bagel. I find it amusing that there is a bread product for sale here at Superama called "pan bagel", which is no doubt a doughnut shaped piece of dough baked but not boiled. You can still find decent bagels in the States - there's even a real bagel place near where I grew up in Bristol, PA, outside of Philly.


Zardoz

Mar 19, 2011, 11:25 AM

Post #13 of 27 (2229 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Bagels and butter milk

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OK

So now I know it is the boiling that gives it that whatever that makes a real bagel. Sooooo
how do we make a bagel down here?? What is the dough made of? Maybe we can make our
own????

Z


lamur

Mar 19, 2011, 12:46 PM

Post #14 of 27 (2209 views)

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Re: [Zardoz] Bagels and butter milk

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I tried that...ARGH!!!!! I'm a great bread baker but bagels are a whooooole different ball game. All I got for the effort was ...frustrated! Bummer...I really wanted to make all of the different varieties that I can't buy...oh well....


La Isla


Mar 19, 2011, 1:11 PM

Post #15 of 27 (2203 views)

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Re: [Zardoz] Bagels and butter milk

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I'm not much of a cook and definitely not a maker of bread and bagels, so I can't help you. I'm just a great consumer of bagels, with or without cream cheese and lox.


T

Mar 19, 2011, 1:32 PM

Post #16 of 27 (2195 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Bagels and butter milk

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None of your responses are encouraging. Just going to buy some bollios with cream cheese and lox. Lots cheaper than paying for fake bagels in lakeside. T


T

Mar 19, 2011, 1:34 PM

Post #17 of 27 (2193 views)

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Re: [RickS] Bagels and butter milk

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LMAO. T.


Musicman

Mar 19, 2011, 3:53 PM

Post #18 of 27 (2157 views)

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Re: [T] Bagels and butter milk

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I just buy double-stuffed Oreos!


Anonimo

Mar 19, 2011, 4:31 PM

Post #19 of 27 (2151 views)

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Re: [lamur] Bagels and butter milk

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I'm a retired baker, and I won't make bagels at home.

Saludos,
Anonimo


jckottler

Mar 19, 2011, 4:57 PM

Post #20 of 27 (2135 views)

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Re: [Zardoz] Bagels and butter milk

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 Plain Bagels
Published September 1, 1997.
Why this recipe works:
For a bagel recipe that produced bagels good enough to eat unadorned, with a complex, yeasty aroma, a golden crust stubbled with the crispy fermentation bubbles that bakers call "fish eyes," and a tenaciously chewy interior, we tried high-gluten flour, which is the flour of choice at most professional bagel bakeries and pizza shops. It was easy to see why this flour is so popular with professionals. The bagels produced with this bagel recipe had a satiny smooth (as opposed to lumpy) and elastic (as opposed to brittle) dough. The bagels rose higher and the crust was smoother and more attractive. The interior structure was also improved; these bagels were lighter and chewier than previous batches. (less)
For a bagel recipe that produced bagels good enough to eat unadorned, with a complex, yeasty aroma, a golden crust stubbled with the crispy fermentation bubbles that bakers call "fish eyes," and a tenaciously chewy interior, we tried high-glut...(more) Makes 8 bagels
Because bagel dough is much drier and stiffer than bread dough, it takes longer for the ingredients to cohere during mixing. For this same reason, we recommend that you neither double the recipe nor try to knead the dough by hand. Most good natural foods stores carry barley malt syrup. High-gluten flour might be more difficult to find. You can order both the syrup and the flour from the King Arthur Flour Baker's Catalogue. Ingredients 4 cups high-gluten flour 2 teaspoons table salt 1 tablespoon barley malt syrup or powder 1 1/2 teaspoons dry active yeast 1 1/4 cups water (lukewarm, 80 degrees) 3 tablespoons cornmeal , for dusting baking sheet 1/2 cup topping ingredients (optional), see step 7 for suggestions Instructions

  1. 1. Mix flour, salt, and malt in bowl of standing mixer fitted with dough hook. Add yeast and water; mix at lowest speed until dough looks scrappy, like shreds just beginning to come together, about 4 minutes. Increase to speed 2; continue mixing until dough is cohesive, smooth, and stiff, 8 to 10 minutes.

  2. 2. Turn dough on to work surface; divide into eight portions, about 4 ounces each. Roll pieces into smooth balls and cover with towel or plastic wrap to rest for 5 minutes, (see illustration 1, below).

  3. 3. Form dough balls into dough rings (illustrations 2 through 4), place on cornmeal-dusted baking sheet, cover tightly with plastic wrap, and refrigerate overnight (12 to 18 hours).

  4. 4. About 20 minutes before baking, remove dough rings from refrigerator. Adjust oven rack to center position and heat oven to 450 degrees. Fill large soup kettle with 3-inch depth of water; bring to rapid boil. To test the proofing of the dough rings, fill large bowl with cool water. Drop dough ring into bowl; it should float immediately to surface (if not, retest every 5 minutes).


  5. 5. Working four at a time, drop dough rings into boiling water, stirring and submerging loops with Chinese skimmer or slotted spoon (illustration 5), until very slightly puffed, 30 to 35 seconds. Remove rings from water; transfer to wire rack, bottom side down, to drain.

  6. 6. Transfer boiled rings, rough side down, to parchment paper--lined baking sheet or baking stone. Bake until deep golden brown and crisp, about 14 minutes. Use tongs to transfer to wire rack to cool. Serve warm or at room temperature.

  7. 7. To Top: Topping ingredients stick to the bagels best when applied to the dough rings just as they come out of the boiling water, while still wet and sticky from boiling, (illustration 6). Options include:
    raw sesame seeds, poppy or caraway seeds, dehydrated onion or garlic flakes, or sea or kosher salt.

    You can also combine toppings. For example, use 2 tablespoons each of sesame and poppy seeds and 1 tablespoon each of caraway seeds, sea or kosher salt, dehydrated onion flakes, and dehydrated garlic flakes.
Step-by-Step
Forming and Cooking Bagels
  • 1. Divide the dough into eight even-sized pieces. Roll each piece into a smooth ball and cover the balls with a towel or a piece of plastic wrap for 5 minutes to rest them.
  • 2. Form each dough ball into a rope 11 inches long by rolling it under your outstretched palms. Do not taper the ends of the rope.
  • 3. Overlap the ends of the rope about 1 1/2 inches and pinch the entire overlapped area firmly together. If the ends of the rope do not want to stick together, you can dampen them slightly.
  • 4. Place the loop of dough around the base of your fingers and, with the overlap under your palm, roll the rope several times, applying firm pressure to seal the seem. The bagel should be roughly the same thickness all the way around.
  • 5. While boiling the bagels, press them down with the back of a slotted spoon or Chinese skimmer to keep them submerged.
  • 6. To top the bagels, dunk them into a small bowl of desired topping.



mexicobuff

Mar 19, 2011, 7:03 PM

Post #21 of 27 (2107 views)

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Re: [jckottler] Bagels and butter milk

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I have made bagels. The recipe up-thread is good as far as it goes, but once the bagels are boiled, they have to be baked. To bake them, do the following:

Preheat oven to 190°C (375°F). Put the boiled bagels on a baking sheet and bake for 30-35 minutes.


jckottler

Mar 19, 2011, 7:21 PM

Post #22 of 27 (2102 views)

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Re: [mexicobuff] Bagels and butter milk

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If you look at step 6 in the top half of the recipe, you'll see the baking part. The pictures at the bottom don't show this part. Easy to miss - don't worry.


mexicobuff

Mar 19, 2011, 7:52 PM

Post #23 of 27 (2089 views)

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Re: [jckottler] Bagels and butter milk

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Thanks! I did miss it.


T

Mar 20, 2011, 1:28 PM

Post #24 of 27 (2012 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Bagels and butter milk

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Great pic. What is your release date? No wonder you do not make bagels at home. Sorry, could not resist. T.


T

Mar 20, 2011, 1:34 PM

Post #25 of 27 (2010 views)

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Re: [Zardoz] Bagels and butter milk

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You sound like a single guy, like me. I have tried every brand of cream cheese here, also and have stuck with philly, also. If we shared the week end edition of the New York Times, would it be divided equally? Five pounds for each of us? T.
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