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Bennie García

Feb 25, 2011, 7:56 AM

Post #1 of 13 (2435 views)

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Masonry construction and earthquakes

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The poor people of New Zealand were victims of a 6.1 magnitude quake several days ago as I'm sure you all know. If one looks at the pictures you will notice that buildings constructed of masonry suffered heavy damage.

In 1995 I was in the final stages of building our house Barra de Navidad when an earthquake that was 2 full points, 8.1, stronger than that of NZ ,struck the coasts of Colima and southern Jalisco. It lasted 1 minute and 36 seconds. For those who have experienced quakes they will recognize this as being an eternity. I was to later find out from geologists that a huge area of the Jalisco coast moved over 1 meter into the Pacific Ocean! I watched my 2400 sq ft house bounce like a rubber ball for over a minute. Damage was incredibly light and nonstructural.

Recently there have been posts made on this board criticizing the what they claim to be inferior Mexican building techniques and quality. I would just like to say that given the magnitude of the Barra quake and the relatively little structural damage that occurred, the posters that so base their opinions on obvious ethnocentric and borderline racist attitudes of superiority have not a clue of which they speak.

Problems of poor quality construction and unethical builders are universal. Not something that can be attributed solely to this country by questionable perceptions of inherent inferiority of Mexican workmanship and materials.



bournemouth

Feb 25, 2011, 8:48 AM

Post #2 of 13 (2421 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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The biggest problem in NZ was the shallowness of the quake and the closeness of the epicenter to Christchurch. I'm not putting you down, please understand that, but a quake at far greater depth does less damage.


Bennie García

Feb 25, 2011, 11:12 AM

Post #3 of 13 (2408 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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Certainly, as does soil liquefaction and duration of the quake.


sparks


Feb 25, 2011, 5:50 PM

Post #4 of 13 (2383 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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Interesting .... just got done with a conversation with my workers today about the '95 quake. One was not here but the other was 16 years and helped with a lot of rescue work in Jaluco. Lot of damage and a few died ... I think the school collapsed. Most of the Internet info on that was about the tsunami damage

15+ years ago I doubt there were the building requirements there are today. At least the plans are required ... but inspections? Mine has not been inspected ... only checking for permits.

Also interesting is that my brick walls moved. First noticed it when metal gates were installed and the welder was a 220 machine. I only had 110 so a big guy stood on top of my wall to connect across the two incoming wires for 220. Later noticed that my side walls swayed when the 3rd meter of brick was being laid. I installed a second castillo for ever other (each 5 meters)

My workers just shrugged and said walls are supposed to move.

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre


chinagringo


Feb 25, 2011, 6:23 PM

Post #5 of 13 (2374 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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I do not see the purpose of directing all this animosity towards robt65 just because he is choosing to build to his own personal construction standards! After all, it is his money and his family that he is trying to provide properly for. Granted there have been some generalizations made by he and others that would seem to indicate that they were not personally satisfied by the norm for construction techniques. It is a somewhat lame justification when techniques are justified by stating things have always been done this way. Using that line of thinking would have put a halt to improvements & advancements made throughout the building industry over the years. Some of the traditional methods were developed because the materials available were limited and not because it was the ideal answer.

Having just gone through a complete study of ICF (insulated concrete form) homes, I learned that this construction technique resulted in a super energy efficient home with superior sound proofing, one of the highest energy ratings for all construction techniques, a home of superior strength against earthquakes and hurricanes and a superior rating for insurance rates. While it does vary from one manufacturer to the next, the basic concept is that you have a concrete core wall (with rebar) anywhere from 8 inches to 12 inches thick surrounded inside and out with foam. The reason I bring this up is that in many ways, you end up with a wall that is somewhat similar to walls in Mexico. You also have many of the same issues with wiring. Since many states do not require that wiring be encased with conduit (including New Mexico), you have two options: 1) running conduit for all wiring inside of the concrete core OR 2) you cut channels for all wiring throughout the interior foam wall. Running all wiring through a well planned matrix of conduit in the interior core does offer certain benefits but also takes away the flexibility of adding circuits after the fact. When people offer up the "superiority" of NOB standards, I would point out that romex is typically run in these channels and in this state, they do not require that the romex in the channel is protected with a metal sheet or some other material to prevent screws from compromising the electric circuit. After studying this situation and the various options, it was my plan to really calculate a well planned matrix of internal conduit and if I found that my planning wasn't adequate, I would resort to the channel technique with a metal sheet covering to minimize the opportunity for sheet rock screws or other fasteners to penetrate the electric circuits. These same issues could conceivably come into play with plumbing lines and it was also my plan to protect any vulnerable areas. By the way, my contractor thought I was crazy and over-thinking something with a low percentage of occurrence! Then again, it was my way or the highway.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



sparks


Feb 25, 2011, 7:16 PM

Post #6 of 13 (2365 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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>>>> a well planned matrix

Sounds like 90 degree corners and not good for feeding wire thru conduit.

>>>> cutting foam

Just melt it with a torch ... assuming you are using panel MG (or not)

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre


chinagringo


Feb 26, 2011, 5:58 PM

Post #7 of 13 (2333 views)

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Re: [sparks] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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A well planned matrix would not have 90 degree corners! Using a torch would be my definition of a "Hindu rig". Typically a hot knife or a router with a wide blade would have been the preferred methods.

But, that wasn't my point! I was attempting to point out the similarity between the typical methodology used in Mexican construction as opposed to one of the more advanced methods of building a green home. Some things advance while others stay stagnant!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



sparks


Feb 26, 2011, 6:19 PM

Post #8 of 13 (2331 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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Any foam use here that I know of is panel MG and has a wire frame. The frame is the strength so why cut the frame. Just melt out a section to slip your conduit thru. Basically the same as cutting channels

As far as planned circuits so you and everyone else knows where not to hang pictures ... good luck. Wide curves are best for wire feed

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre


chinagringo


Feb 26, 2011, 6:55 PM

Post #9 of 13 (2321 views)

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Re: [sparks] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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What I was referring to was a NOB building technique/system. These systems are not simply a matter of slapping some foam board up and pouring concrete in between. They can be somewhat complex forms with either plastic or metal connector grids between the inner and outer walls such as:
http://www.rewardwalls.com/getting-started/
or:
http://www.techblock.com/

When one goes through a study of this entire process and analyzes the cost of concrete in MX, I would think this would be an ideal construction method in MX given the cost of concrete. Naturally, you would have to be in an area serviced by concrete pumper trucks!

If one reviews the thermal characteristics of this construction method, you would find that the thermal variables would be minimized in homes that typically do not have heat or air conditioning sources.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Sculptari

Mar 6, 2011, 12:06 PM

Post #10 of 13 (2244 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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ICF construction is not limited to the Norte. I can think of three companies in Mexico. One in Baja (a pioneer in this industry), another building low cost housing (infonavit type projects) and another big one in Southern Mexicro. I think the US leaader in this field - TRI-D, has a plant in Mexico. The biggest problem is transporting styrofoam - it is mostly air, but shipping costs relate to volume, more than weight. The solution is to form the foam at the construction site, and there are many people working on this, foamed concrete for example. After all, air is free and already predelivered to any construction site!

As an artisan, it saddens me to see the lack of design or character in these ICF homes and commercial buildings. There is such freedom in Mexico, for now anyways, why not use it?


Sculptari

Mar 6, 2011, 12:38 PM

Post #11 of 13 (2234 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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As far as finding live wires, most modern ´stud finders´ have the function to find live electrical wires, and are also laser levels too.


sparks


Mar 6, 2011, 4:01 PM

Post #12 of 13 (2210 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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Live wires would have to be using electricity .... so I guess you just mean a metal finder. Have to get one at Home Depot and see how well they work on 14 gauge in cement.

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre


Reefhound


Mar 7, 2011, 7:38 AM

Post #13 of 13 (2173 views)

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Re: [sparks] Masonry construction and earthquakes

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They are just density meters. Don't expect the cheapie models to work for concrete though high end contractor models can do it.
 
 
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