MexConnect.com Forums: General: Traveling Mexico: First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey: Page 2

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chinagringo

Feb 20, 2011, 7:20 AM

Post #26 of 47 (5912 views)

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Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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While I don't personally care for all of the gory reality photos on this site, it seems that they do have lots of sources. I have always used GOOGLE translate to assist me with the Spanish but they recently added a translate option in many languages located in the upper left corner to assist those of us who are Spanish challenged.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

surebought

Feb 21, 2011, 9:32 AM

Post #27 of 47 (5796 views)

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Re: [jerezano] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Some of us with long experience with doing business in Mexico, have had to learn one lesson (sometimes) many times. You don't hire Mexican Americans to work for you within Mexico. Maybe the government should take this under advisement. There are some real cultural problems with putting Mexican Americans in positions of authority within the republica. I don't say this out of racism. My wife is Mexican. Why would the public sector be any different. And they are also putting every diplomatic employee of the US Consuls in jeopardy by having them work out of the embassy with diplomatic plates. This isn't the cold war. There are no rules. And they are not going to get guns whatever happens, so why bother. The President only has about 15 months left in his term. They should expect a weakening resolve until the next President takes over.

Altahabana

Feb 21, 2011, 10:49 AM

Post #28 of 47 (5777 views)

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Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Regardless of the validity of your observation about the use of Mexican Americans in the private business sector, I think it is a real stretch to suggest that Zapata and Avila's ethnicity may in some way explain the incident on Hwy 57 in San Luis Potisi. Nearly all victims of narco reténes are Mexican nationals, not US citizens so cultural differences is not a very compelling argument. A more likely explanation for the outcome is that Zapata felt his diplomatic status was some degree of protection and refused to comply, assuming he and his partner were not targeted for assassination.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Feb 21, 2011, 10:52 AM)

Reefhound

Feb 21, 2011, 12:04 PM

Post #29 of 47 (5755 views)

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Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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However, it's beneficial that the employees the U.S. sends to Mexico be able to speak Spanish and that makes Mexican Americans the most likely choice, given that learning a second language has not been a high priority within the American educational system.

Reefhound

Feb 21, 2011, 12:14 PM

Post #30 of 47 (5753 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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By all accounts I've seen, the outcome was due to them stopping and rolling down the window to talk to them. The vehicle did it's job and withstood lots of rounds. The only rounds to enter the cabin were through the open window. They were able to get the window back up and take off which is why one agent is alive.

panama john

Feb 21, 2011, 4:21 PM

Post #31 of 47 (5713 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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The incident on Hwy 57 didn't have anything to do with the ethnicity of the two agents. It was about stealing the black bullet-proof SUV. Like Altahabana said they (the ICE agents) thought they could slide through by showing their US Gov. ID. Plain and simple, they(narcos) wanted the car.

chinagringo

Feb 23, 2011, 3:48 PM

Post #32 of 47 (5586 views)

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Re: [surebought] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Apparently there has been an arrest of one person suspected of being involved but no name has been released as yet since they are transporting the prisoner to Mexico City. One of the many Mexican media reports stated that he was a Zeta but that may be pure speculation at this point.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...to-back-in-news.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Reefhound

Feb 23, 2011, 5:02 PM

Post #33 of 47 (5577 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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While I had little doubt that they would "find" who did it, whether he did it or not, the real justice in these kinds of incidents is all the corollary intelligence gathered from the hunt.

I wonder how many Mexican citizens, especially those with personal ties to victims, are wondering why they can't get such results?

Altahabana

Feb 24, 2011, 5:34 AM

Post #34 of 47 (5509 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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They arrrested a group of Zetas. Julián Zapata Espinoza, a/k/a El Piolín (Tweety Bird), the leader, was arrested by the army in December 2009 but released on "bail." There are also reports that the group mistook the agent's vehicle for one driven by a Gulf cartel leader and that is what precipitated the incident.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/747333.html

I too think it is interesting that the government made arrests so quickly. They still haven't caught the individuals responsible for the murder of Rodolfo Torre Cantú, the PRI candidate for governor of Tamaulipas who was assassinated a week before he would have won the election last year.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Feb 24, 2011, 6:36 AM)

Reefhound

Feb 24, 2011, 5:58 AM

Post #35 of 47 (5505 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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I have no basis to either doubt or trust the "reasons" given. Maybe it was as confessed. Maybe they feel they have a better chance if people believe they meant to hurt other bad people not government agents. Maybe they are covering for a higher boss whom they fear more than the government.

The important thing now, the part that I feel least secure with Mexico, is the follow through. The prosecution, the conviction, the sentence, and then secure detention. Arrests become pretty meaningless without the follow through.

chinagringo

Feb 24, 2011, 8:39 AM

Post #36 of 47 (5464 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a developing pattern of the Zetas claiming mistakes when an incident causes international concern? Seems to me that the Falcon Lake incident was also termed a case of mistaken identity.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Casa

Feb 24, 2011, 10:11 AM

Post #37 of 47 (5444 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Sure is good that they were able to "find the guilty" parties before Calderon goes to visit Obama next week. (especially considering the statements made by Calderon in his recent interview)

Altahabana

Feb 24, 2011, 11:46 AM

Post #38 of 47 (5425 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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These days the Zetas are a far cry from the original ex-military special forces core who were recruited by the Gulf cartel to act as their enforcers. Most of the rank/file are garden variety street thugs and their immediate bosses are simply older thugs that have been on the street a little longer. They lack experience,discipline and training and consequently make poor decisions. The massacre of the migrants, the murder of the jet skier on Falcon Lake and this incident are the result. I seriously doubt the two top guys, Lazcano and Trevino, would have sanctioned the killing of an ICE field officer. To me this has all the earmarks of a mistake and very few of a planned event.

chinagringo

Mar 3, 2011, 6:54 AM

Post #39 of 47 (5224 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Seems that everyone is being pretty quiet about the fact that the weapon used to kill the ICE agent and wound the other agent has now been traced to a gun show sale in TX. Also shoots holes in the common rationalization that a weapon was manufactured in some other foreign country and therefore couldn't have come from the US. In this case, the weapon was manufactured in Romania.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nt-in-mexico_01.html
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

donemry

Mar 3, 2011, 7:23 AM

Post #40 of 47 (5220 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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From the article:

Osorio and a neighbor, Kelvin Leon Morrison, also of Lancaster, had cases against them put off until Friday. They were arrested in Lancaster Monday during a raid.

Morrison is charged with illegally dealing firearms and lying about buying them; he’s believed to have sold them to drug dealers.

Court documents say Osorio and his older brother, Ranferi, possessed dozens of guns with serial numbers filed off that were destined for the violent Zetas drug cartel in Mexico.

These guys bought the guns, illegally modified them and then illegally sold them to someone who then illegally imported them into Mexico. What does the criminal activity of a bunch of criminals suggest to you, what is your point?

Reefhound

Mar 3, 2011, 8:18 AM

Post #41 of 47 (5207 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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If you really want to go down that road, it also shoots holes in the 90% claim. The gun was one of three weapons used in the attack, not to mention weapons and grenades seized in subsequent arrests of the bosses of the SLP group believed responsible. With such a high profile case you can bet dollars to donuts that the investigation has been thorough and all these weapons have been traced. And yet we have ONE traced to the U.S.

panama john

Mar 3, 2011, 9:48 AM

Post #42 of 47 (5187 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Who did the balistics investigation?

chinagringo

Mar 3, 2011, 11:04 AM

Post #43 of 47 (5162 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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"With such a high profile case you can bet dollars to donuts that the investigation has been thorough and all these weapons have been traced. And yet we have ONE traced to the U.S."

Since I have not seen any reports indicating that all the weapons used in this event have been recovered at this point, can you provide us with such? If not, your comment about the "ONE traced to the US" doesn't hold much water! Secondly, have you ever read a post of mine where I professed an absolute belief in the "90%" figure being tossed around? I am ashamed by the shear numbers of weapons that do move from the border states into Mexico - no matter what the percentages are!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Reefhound

Mar 3, 2011, 11:55 AM

Post #44 of 47 (5150 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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Well if we are going to parse words, I don't recall anyone ever saying that it was not possible for a weapon manufactured in another country to have come from the USA. So whose rationalization does it shoot holes in?

None of us have all the facts or ever will with regards to what evidence they have recovered or the details to their investigation. What is known is that they have only stated one gun was traced to the U.S. and that it was one of three used in the attack.

I will agree with you that too many guns flow south across the border. I will agree with you that we need to find ways to reduce this. I will not agree to banning legal sales of handguns to qualified citizens. I will not agree to restrictions on handguns that encumber honest citizens and have little or no effect on criminals.

Edit: One has to reply to someone unless starting a new thread. I made a general statement in a reply to you. I never said *you* backed the 90% claim. In your reply to Altahabana, were you making a similar general statement or were you saying he is one of those claiming guns manufactured elsewhere couldn't have come from the U.S.?

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Mar 3, 2011, 12:01 PM)

chinagringo

Mar 3, 2011, 12:36 PM

Post #45 of 47 (5131 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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"One has to reply to someone unless starting a new thread. I made a general statement in a reply to you. I never said *you* backed the 90% claim. In your reply to Altahabana, were you making a similar general statement or were you saying he is one of those claiming guns manufactured elsewhere couldn't have come from the U.S.? "

I was merely tagging on the the end of the thread and did not mean to imply in any way that Althahabana was involved.

Now going back to your post, by omitting how how many of the weapons had been recovered and traced, you contend that it was only ONE. If only ONE had been recovered and traced, then the figure is 100%! If you use the one out of three figure or 33.333%, I still say this number is too high.

Using your word: "handguns" - I don't believe these are the premier weapons of choice for the cartels. If they were, the Mexican military and the police might have fewer problems but assault style weapons do seem to be preferred. As you probably remember the US had a ban on this style weapon for a number of years. With no solid rationale or reasonably thinking, that ban was allowed to expire. I have never seen one argument that passes my acid test that can justify why the US public needs access to this style weapon.

Meanwhile attempts are being made to reduce amounts in the budget allocated to border security. What is wrong with this picture?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Reefhound

Mar 3, 2011, 1:29 PM

Post #46 of 47 (5125 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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The assault weapons ban was allowed to expire because it was fatally flawed and ineffective. I don't think it would have made one iota of difference today if it never expired. Here's why.

1. The definition of "assault weapon" was confusing and based on having more than two specific features, such as magazines holding more than 10 rounds, folding stock, threaded barrels, etc. Manufacturers simply made minor modifications and pretty much sold the same weapons as before, such as the XR15 for the AR15, which were easily modified back by the user. If in effect today, the cartels would simply be buying up XR15's and modifying them as needed.

2. It expired before this cartel warfare exploded in Mexico. Assault weapons account for 2% of illegal use of guns in the U.S. I don't recall any of the big shootings - Ft Hood, Virginia Tech, Columbine - involving an AR15 or AK47. In short, within the U.S. it was a solution in search of a problem.

Rolly

Mar 3, 2011, 2:01 PM

Post #47 of 47 (5115 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] First reported incident on Hwy 57 North of SLP on way to Monterrey

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This thread has strayed far from the original subject, and it has pretty exhausted the know facts in the matter, so it's time to move on.

Rolly Pirate

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