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Casa

Feb 22, 2011, 11:23 PM

Post #1 of 21 (9588 views)

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Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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It will be interesting to see in what way many of us will be affected and the changes at INM if the new law is approved and publish in the Diario Oficial.

Versión mexicana de la ley Arizona
Aprueban en lo general Ley de Migración



stevebrtx

Feb 23, 2011, 5:09 AM

Post #2 of 21 (9562 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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It will have exactly the same affect on law abiding citizens as the 1070 AZ law has on law abiding citizens - nada.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


Bennie García

Feb 23, 2011, 5:37 AM

Post #3 of 21 (9550 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Tell that to the Chiapanecos that will be hassled on a daily basis. Mr black and white. Time for you to get a clue.


stevebrtx

Feb 23, 2011, 5:46 AM

Post #4 of 21 (9547 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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And you imagine somehow gringos aren't hassled here? - looks like it's you who are out of touch.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


Gringal

Feb 23, 2011, 8:11 AM

Post #5 of 21 (9488 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Aside from all the friendly banter that this has generated, could you please suggest a source of this information in English for those of us who are Spanish-impaired? Thanks. Or just tell what this is about in general? Thank you.


RickS


Feb 23, 2011, 8:25 AM

Post #6 of 21 (9481 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Google has a pretty decent text or webpage translate these days. For webpages, just cut'n-paste the URL of what you want translated. Check it out at:

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=EN


Disclaimer: "I don't own nor do I work for Google; hell, I don't even own any of their stock!"


Casa

Feb 23, 2011, 11:20 AM

Post #7 of 21 (9431 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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In Reply To
It will have exactly the same affect on law abiding citizens as the 1070 AZ law has on law abiding citizens - nada.

Actually I was referring to “law abiding residents (not citizens)” Last year as many people are aware there was reform in Mexican immigration procedures. What we are talking about now is a reform in the Mexican Immigration LAW. Theoretically there could be many more changes than the procedural changes we saw implemented last year.
I have not been able to find a text of the complete proposal currently being discussed by Mexican elected officials. There is some division mostly along party lines concerning various articles of the proposed law. This may change everything at INM or it may change nothing, or may just change a few things. We will have to wait and see.


Bennie García

Feb 23, 2011, 12:18 PM

Post #8 of 21 (9415 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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And you imagine somehow gringos aren't hassled here? - looks like it's you who are out of touch.


When was the last time you were asked for your immigration papers?

Besides, I was talking about your moronic statement that people who aren't breaking laws have nothing to fear as it applies to citizens of Mexico.

This law would give the federal cops new excuses for hassling their own citizens who happen to be indigenous. And if the ones being hassled aren't carrying proper documentation (something that is NOT required by law and many may not even possess) that proves their Mexican citizenship, then they will definitely have something to fear.

Get your head out of the USA for a change.


mazbook1


Feb 23, 2011, 12:28 PM

Post #9 of 21 (9410 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Thank you Bennie for saying it MUCH more diplomatically than I would have.


stevebrtx

Feb 23, 2011, 1:05 PM

Post #10 of 21 (9399 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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When was the last time? - about 2 months ago as I was leaving the airport. I've been stopped, singled out a number of times and only once for a traffic violation. The other times it was simply because I'm an old gringo in MX. I produce papers, they read them and we part friends. The traffic infraction was armed robbery on the couta at San Luis Potosi, that one cost me $500p and we parted real good friends. I know many people who have been stopped for no reason and BTW, the AZ law you're so incensed about doesn't allow stopping for no reason, nor does it allow profiling - that's why we fondle 80 year old grandmothers at the airports rather than ones more likely to be terrorists.

If it's an "AZ" style law it's aimed at illegals, not indigenous citizens of MX. So, citizens, residents it's all the same answer - nada.

Now, if they have time to waste on this, I'd highly recommend the senator's get busy and save this country from going over the edge before it's too late, or there won't be any reason for an "AZ" style law because there will be NO visitors, they'll all go home dragging their money bags behind them - ever consider that possibility?

By your surname I assume you're proud of this country - don't be; be proud of what this country can be if it would grow up, assume some responsibility, and stop pointing fingers like my grandchildren.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


Rolly


Feb 23, 2011, 1:47 PM

Post #11 of 21 (9380 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Mexico's illegal immigration problem does not much come from NoB, rather the big part of the problem comes from south of México. A handful of college-age kids working in bars in Cancun is nothing compared with the tens of thousands crossing over from the south.

Rolly Pirate


Rolly


Feb 23, 2011, 1:55 PM

Post #12 of 21 (9370 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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If you have trouble believing that, read this.

Rolly Pirate


mazbook1


Feb 23, 2011, 1:57 PM

Post #13 of 21 (9365 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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How arrogant! Unbelievable.

Sorry, this was aimed at stevebrtx, NOT Rolly!


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Feb 23, 2011, 1:59 PM)


Bennie García

Feb 23, 2011, 2:41 PM

Post #14 of 21 (9343 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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By your surname I assume you're proud of this country - don't be; be proud of what this country can be if it would grow up, assume some responsibility, and stop pointing fingers like my grandchildren.


I assume from the stupidity shown in your posts that you form your opinions based on typical right wing bullshit from sources such as WorldNet daily.


chinagringo


Feb 23, 2011, 3:31 PM

Post #15 of 21 (9327 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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While we have been down this road before, let me try a couple ofscenarios out for size:
1) Two drivers with New Mexico Drivers Licenses driving New Mexico single rear plate vehicles.
2) Both drivers are legal US Citizens BUT one is obviously a Gringo with fair skin and light hair color and the other is Hispanic with black hair and olive skin color.
3) The obvious Gringo has a last name, of say Smith, but isn't a US Citizen by virtue of having been born in the US but rather born in China of US Citizen parents. (You got it - that would be me) The Hispanic appearance driver with say a last name of Chavez is US born and both of his parents were also legal citizens.

Note: New Mexico is one of two States that does not require legal status to obtain a drivers license.

Mexico Scenario:
I don't think it would be a stretch for me to speculate that myself as a Gringo driver stands a better chance of being pulled over because of my skin color. Since I am a foreigner visiting Mexico, it is only natural for me to expect to have to show documents proving that I was in the country legally and I am certainly not put out by having to do so! As for the Hispanic driver, I would speculate that he may not even be pulled over in the first place because of his appearance. If he is pulled over and his immediate command of the Spanish language comes into play, I would again speculate that there may be a 50/50 chance that they will even ask for documents. Either way, no harm no foul in my book!

Arizona Scenario:
For the sake of discussion, both drivers are cruising the AZ freeway but doing 6 mph over the speed limit. Since it is mandatory for the Arizona Highway Patrol to get up on the wrong side of bed, both drivers are pulled over for the infraction. Since it is common knowledge that NM doesn't require legal status and they do not list one's place of birth, the AZ Trooper is within their rights to quiz about citizenship according to their law. Probably two chances that I would be asked - slim and none! But being the type person that I am, if given the opportunity to bait them, I would try to interject my place of birth. Furthermore, since it isn't a requirement in my home state, I wouldn't be carrying my US Passport or State Department issued Birth Certificate to prove citizenship. As for Mr Chavez, I would again speculate that he stands at least a 70% or 80% chance of being asked about his citizenship. And should he not be in possession of some sort of citizenship document, he would probably be in for a long day. Unlike Mexico, there is a foul should either of be treated any different!

US Border Patrol Check Station:
Since we enjoy one permanent station and one part time station between here and El Paso, we have been through these many times. More than half the time, they do not even bother to ask me anything and the rest of the time, they might say: "citizenship?" with nothing further. On the other hand, I have seen numerous Hispanics raked over the coals even when they have produced drivers licenses and whatever other documents being requested. As I see it, there is a major difference between the AZ scenario and the Border Patrol scenario - they are the Feds and the ones designated by Federal Laws to enforce the laws of the Country!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Casa

Feb 23, 2011, 9:56 PM

Post #16 of 21 (9236 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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This may change everything at INM or it may change nothing, or may just change a few things. We will have to wait and see.

The Informador is reporting that:
“Con la nueva legislación —cuyo objetivo es facilitar y garantizar la movilidad de los inmigrantes en México, con respeto a la vida y la dignidad— se crearían tres grandes grupos de condiciones de estancia: visitante, residente temporal y residente permanente.” Actualmente hay más de 30 calidades y características migratorias.

With the new legislation, which aims to facilitate and ensure the mobility of migrants in Mexico, with respect for life and dignity, would create three groups of conditions of stay: visitor, temporary resident and permanent resident. Currently there are more than 30 different immigration classifications for non citizens.

Maybe we will see an end to the FMM FM2 FM3 and Inmigrado status…or the NonInmigrante Inmigrante and Inmigrado


jerezano

Feb 24, 2011, 7:51 AM

Post #17 of 21 (9175 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Hello All,

Somebody here speculated:>>>>>>>>>>>>>Maybe we will see an end to the FMM FM2 FM3 and Inmigrado status…<<< the Visitante, Inmigrante (includes Inmigrado) and Noinmigrante residente

Unless there are major changes to the proposed law before it is passed, I see absolutely no change for us gringos who are here legally in Mexico. We are now classified as Visitante, noinmigrante residente, and inmnigrado. The old Tourist, FM3, and FM2 (including inmigrado) classifications. Where is the change? None that I can see.

However, it is quite clear that we will all need to carry our identification papers with us, just as in any Foreign Country we are supposed to carry our USA or other passport with the proper visas. Since Mexico does not require the visa stamp in our passport, the tourist, noinmigrante residente and inmigrado documents are equivalent to the visa stamp in the passport.

Why does it become necessary to carry identification documents if the new law passes? Just because the Federal Police will then have the authority to ask for them even if no infractions of law have been observed. At the present time, they do not have that right.

True, in the USA we do not have to carry such identification documents at all times. But remember México is a foreign country, even if we don't like to think of it that way.

I personally always carry copies of my identification documents in my car and now that the old FM3 is on a wallet card, I carry that as well. Wallets are easily stolen, while cars are just a bit more difficult. I have other copies at home just in case and I usually leave my Passport at home and carry a Passport Card in my wallet.

The indocumented person in Mexico is an entirely different matter. I will not address that here.

As ever, jerezano


(This post was edited by jerezano on Feb 24, 2011, 7:58 AM)


Casa

Feb 24, 2011, 10:08 AM

Post #18 of 21 (9132 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Unless there are major changes to the proposed law before it is passed, I see absolutely no change for us gringos who are here legally in Mexico.

It sounds like you have seen the proposed law in its entirety. Could you please share the link where you found the newly proposed law?



In Reply To
We are now classified as Visitante, noinmigrante residente, and inmnigrado. The old Tourist, FM3, and FM2 (including inmigrado) classifications. Where is the change? None that I can see.

It seems you do not understand the current Mexican Immigration Calidades and Características (classifications) as your statement is incorrect.


jerezano

Feb 24, 2011, 6:54 PM

Post #19 of 21 (9058 views)

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Re: [Casa] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Hello Casa and others,

Quote:...........It seems you do not understand the current Mexican Immigration Calidades and Características (classifications) as your statement is incorrect.................

Casa, you are no doubt right. My wording has been a bit loose. I am now looking at my "No Inmigrante Rentista No Lucrativa" card which replaced my FM3. It clearly states No inmigrante. Also Rentista which gives me the right to residence in Mexico for a year living on income derived from Non-Mexico sources and it then clearly states that I can't work (No lucrativa) in Mexico. So my wording on the other cards is no doubt loose too. But isn't the idea correct? In what way do I not understand the qualities and characteristics (classifications) of the now existing regulations? I would be happy to be corrected as this is a very important subject for a foreigner living in Mexico.

Thank you for your comment.

As ever, jerezano


jerezano

Feb 24, 2011, 8:18 PM

Post #20 of 21 (9041 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Hello all,

Somewhere above in this thread Casa has posted for us the following article from the Informador. I have written an English summary of each paragraph (Translation is my own, NOT Google)

http://www.informador.com.mx/...ley-de-migracion.htm

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Senado da luz verde a ley de migración>>>>>Senate gives a green light to the new Immigration Law
Nota
Senado
|
Poder Legislativo
|w
Migración
[Senado da luz verde a ley de migración]

La iniciativa incluye elevar a ley el INM para que el organismo ejecute la política migratoria. ARCHIVO>>>>>This inicitiave elevates the INM in status and gives the organizm the power to execute and control the new law

* Con la medida tendrán acceso a servicios de seguridad, salud y justicia *>>>>>> With this measure [immigrants] will have access to services of security, health and justice.

La nueva legislación prevé garantizar la movilidad de los inmigrantes en México con respeto a su vida>>>>>>>The new legislation will foresee the guarantee of immigrants in Mexico with respect to their lives.
CIUDAD DE MÉXICO (23/FEB/2011).- El Senado dio un paso clave en la defensa de las garantías individuales de los migrantes ilegales que atraviesen el territorio de México, al aprobar ayer en lo general la ley de migración con 84 votos a favor y 15 en contra.>>>>>The Senate made a key decision in the defense of individual guarantees of ILLEGAL immigrants passing through Mexico by approving in general the Immigration law with 84 votes in favor and 15 against.

Actualmente México no cuenta con una norma en la materia, y los temas migratorios forman parte de la Ley General de Población. >>>>>Presently Mexico does not have an immigration law and immigation is part of the General Law of the Population.

Con la nueva legislación —cuyo objetivo es facilitar y garantizar la movilidad de los inmigrantes en México, con respeto a la vida y la dignidad— se crearían tres grandes grupos de condiciones de estancia: visitante, residente temporal y residente permanente. >>>>>>>The new legislation--whose objective is to facilitate and guaranteehe movement of immigrants in Mexico with respect to life and dignity--would create three large groups of conditions of passage through Mexico; Visitor, Temporary Resident and Permanent Resident

Actualmente hay más de 30 calidades y características migratorias.>>>>Presently there are more than 30 types and characteristics of immigration [documents].

Senadores presentaron 126 reservas a diversos artículos de esta iniciativa, así como de la Ley General de Población y del Código Federal de Procedimientos Penales que serán discutidas mañana.>>>>Senators presented 126 reservations [questions] etc.

La iniciativa está integrada por ocho títulos y 21 capítulos, entre los que se incluye elevar a rango de ley al Instituto Nacional de Migración (INM), para que este organismo sea el encargado de ejecutar la política migratoria, facultad que actualmente tiene la Secretaría de Gobernación. También plantea la creación de un Centro de Evaluación y Control de Confianza para certificar a empleados del INM.>>>>The iniciative is composed of 8 titles and 21 chapters among which is included the elevation to the rank of law the National Institute of Migracion (INM) so that this organism will be charged with executing the immigration policy, which presently is controlled by the Secretary of Governmnent. It will also create a Confidential? Center of Evaluation and Control to certify employees of INM.

El dictamen refiere que los inmigrantes tendrán acceso a servicios educativos, de salud, procuración e impartición de justicia, información y reconocimiento de su personalidad jurídica, independientemente de si son o no indocumentados.>>>>The law will require that immigrants will have access to educationsal services, health, justice, recognition of their personal rights whether or not they are LEGAL or ILLEGAL.

El senador panista Humberto Andrade afirmó que la ley permitirá evitar situaciones trágicas como la muerte de 72 migrantes ocurrida en agosto del año pasado en Tamaulipas>>>>>>>>>This will supposedly prevent such tragic situations as that of the 72 assenations in Tamaulipas last year.

Esa tragedia, sumada a los dos secuestros de 59 indocumentados en Oaxaca, acontecidos en diciembre, provocó que Honduras, El Salvador y Guatemala exigieran al Gobierno mexicano garantizar la seguridad de sus ciudadanos en México.
CRÉDITOS: Informador Redacción / GJD Feb-23 05:05 hrs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In sum this article says basically that the new law will create three large groups of legal immigrant: tourist or visitor, temporary resident, and permanent resident. It recognizes that within these groups there will be different categories (presently more than 30) and that some will be transient or passing through. It also will guarantee rights to ILLEGAL
immigrants whether transient or wanabe permanents.

Now this article unlike the first articles posted by Casa to start this thread does not mention the Arizona Immigrant Law and its big brother aspects such as that of granting to the Federal Police the right to inspect immigration documents at any time.

Is there anything here, other than the Big Brother Aspects not mentioned, which changes for the three present groups of Visitante, No Inmigrante, or Inmigrado or whatever they are called?

Like Casa, I too, would really like to see a copy of the initiative. But like Casa , I agree that we must wait. But in my opinion, the new law will be passed. It is time.

As ever, jerezano


(This post was edited by Rolly on Feb 24, 2011, 10:01 PM)


jerezano

Feb 24, 2011, 8:42 PM

Post #21 of 21 (9029 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexico to pass “Arizona style” immigration laws in new immigration bill?

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Hello All,

The Washington Post has reported here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2011022407609.html

that The Mexican Senate has now passed the new immigration initiative. It remains for the House to do the same.

The Big Brother aspects (Arizona Law) have all been stripped out of the Senate version.

To me this is good news.

As ever, jerezano


(This post was edited by Rolly on Feb 24, 2011, 10:05 PM)
 
 
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