Graduate School? Grades?

Graduate School? Grades?

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I was working on a writeup for my ESL students on the US vs. Mexican School systems, and tried to look up "Graduate School" in Spanish on the web, and did not get anything useful. I want to say "estudios avanzados", but I am not sure that is correct.

Here is what I have written up so far:

Years USA Mexico
1-6 Grade school Primeria
7-9 Junior high school Secondaria
10-12 High School Preparatoria o Colegio
13-16 University or College Universidad
17+ Graduate School

In English, when we say grades we might mean levels in school (First, Second, etc.), or we might mean marks, A, B, C. For the marks, I would say calificaciones, but not sure how to say grade levels.

Gracias de antemano.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

Dec 24, 2010, 11:57 AM

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Re: [raferguson] Graduate School? Grades?

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"Graduate school" could be "estudios de posgrado" or "programa de posgrado". To talk about grade levels, "sixth grade" would be "sexto" as in "sexto curso", for example, "Está en sexto (curso)". Don't forget to tell your students that "bachillerato" and "bachelor's degree" are not the same thing!

Let's tighten up your Spanish spelling a bit: Primaria Secundaria .

Dec 24, 2010, 12:56 PM

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Re: [La Isla] Graduate School? Grades?

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And university should be 13 - 16 (or 17), as many courses of study in México require 5 years for the licenciatura (Bachlor's degree).

Personally, I would refer to grade levels in this manner: sixth grade - sexto grado de primaria, eighth grade - segundo grado de secundaria, tenth grade - primero grado de preparatoria, etc. I double checked this with my daughter who is in her primero grado de universidad, and she said this was the way to refer to grade levels in México. Since only primaria goes to the sexto level, La Isla's, "Está en sexto." would be perfectly understood as inferring the missing "grado de primaria". She was fairly adamant that "grado" should be used rather than "curso", or, as I used to use, "nivel", although both would be understood.

Since I have not known anyone at the post graduate level (yet!) but have heard the term posgrado used in conversation, I do believe it is correct as La Isla says.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 24, 2010, 12:58 PM)

Dec 24, 2010, 1:41 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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I wonder if using "grado" for "grade" is an example of the influence of American English on Mexican Spanish. After reading mazbook's post, I did a little googling and found a SEP website that uses "grado" for year in school, so I stand corrected.

Rolly

Dec 24, 2010, 3:29 PM

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Re: [raferguson] Graduate School? Grades?

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My three English students, all college kids, came to my house bringing pizza and cake for a little patio party.
I ask them your questions. They said for years 1 - 12, both grade and year are used.
In college, time is marked by the number of quarters or semesters completed.
A four-year program would have 8 semesters, or 12 quarters, etc.
Nery is in a 3 year program that has 12 quarters because his school operates the year round.
They had never heard the terms we use -- freshman, sophomore, junior and senior.
Graduate degrees are called the same as in English - Master and Doctor. PhD is not used.

Rolly Pirate

gpkgto

Dec 24, 2010, 3:33 PM

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Re: [Rolly] Graduate School? Grades?

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My experience is the same as Rolly's--my university students talk in terms of the semester/semestre of study they are in--not the year of study.

eyePad

Dec 24, 2010, 3:50 PM

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Re: [raferguson] Graduate School? Grades?

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Richard, great topic which is also very confusing.
In vernacular spanish (in Mexico anyway) it is simply "posgrado" and nothing more.
The different courses of study, duration in years, and titles bestowed are not universal across Spanish speaking countries. I think what you have is about as accurate as possible for Mexico. What about an "Associate's" two year degree (I think that's what they are called in the US)? Rolly sounds like his area is influenced by USA because Maestria and Doctorado is commonly heard in the republic. "Master" means something totally different in Spain.
apáñatelas como puedas

(This post was edited by eyePad on Dec 24, 2010, 3:53 PM)

Dec 24, 2010, 3:54 PM

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Re: [eyePad] Graduate School? Grades?

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I doubt that two-year or "associate degrees" exist in Mexico, but I could be wrong.

Dec 24, 2010, 4:39 PM

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Re: [Rolly] Graduate School? Grades?

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In Reply To

My three English students, all college kids, came to my house bringing pizza and cake for a little patio party.
I ask them your questions. They said for years 1 - 12, both grade and year are used.

So for second grade, you could say "Estoy en segundo grado de primaria" or " . . . segundo año . . ."

Dec 24, 2010, 4:42 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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I just checked with my language informant in Spain, and it looks like the use of "curso" for year or grade in school is Peninsular, not Mexican, Spanish. I wonder which word or words are used in other Spanish-speaking countries.

Rolly

Dec 24, 2010, 4:59 PM

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Re: [eyePad] Graduate School? Grades?

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Rolly sounds like his area is influenced by USA because Maestria and Doctorado is commonly heard in the republic.

Maestria and Doctorado are the words they used. I simply posted in English.

Rolly Pirate

Maesonna

Dec 30, 2010, 8:47 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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I'm in Mexico City, and my kids have gone through the system from primaria to posgrado. Primary grades are referred to as años, as in ¿En qué año vas? En quinto. The word for class is grupo, as in el grupo de tercer año; the third-grade class. The 3 years of secundaria are called primero, segundo y tercero de secundaria. The 3 years of prepa are numbered following on from secundaria; that is, they are called cuarto, quinto and sexto. I don't know how general the undergraduate terminology is, but UNAM students, at least, say facultad; i.e. Cuando estuve en la facultad... means "When I was an undergraduate." The word for program (major) is carrera; i.e. "What is your major?" is expressed as "¿En qué carerra vas?" And graduate studies is posgrado, or, if being specific, estudios de maestría or estudios de doctorado, as the case may be. An expression that was new to me was "recibirse" for receive a degree; e.g. me recibí de ingeniero; I got my engineering degree (not me; that was a hypothetical example).

Another word connected with university studies, which has a unique meaning in Mexico, is pasante. This is an almost-graduate who has finished their coursework, but still has some requirements to fulfill before they can get their degree, usually finishing their thesis and/or doing their social service requirement.

(This post was edited by Maesonna on Dec 30, 2010, 8:58 PM)

Rolly

Dec 30, 2010, 10:11 PM

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Re: [Maesonna] Graduate School? Grades?

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pasante. When I was in graduate school we called it "all but." All but the thesis. All but the orals. etc.

Rolly Pirate

Dec 30, 2010, 10:45 PM

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Re: [Maesonna] Graduate School? Grades?

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Thanks for the highly-informative post, Maesonna. I'm going to save it in my Learning Spanish file.

Dec 31, 2010, 3:46 PM

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Re: [Maesonna] Graduate School? Grades?

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And the regional differences in Mexican Spanish strike again. Años in Mexico City, grados here in the noroeste. Also the use of continuously numbered grados for secundaria and prepa, which is a throwback to the time when government schools only went to the sexto grado (año) de primaria and all the subsequent pre-university levels were numbered together as "higher education" (sorry, I've forgotten the term in Spanish). Now that government schools everywhere go to the 9th grade, tercero grado de secundaria and in most states in México (slowly evolving into ALL - by law) prepa is separate, the prepa levels have now been renumbered (in the common usage in the noroeste - at the very least) to primaro, segundo y tercero grado de prepa.

In any primarily monolingual country like México, these sorts of regional differences exist all over the world. When discussing Mexican Spanish it's important to always say just what region you're familiar with, as there will undoubtedly be differences from some other region. Maesonna correctly did just this when her post started out by saying she was in Mexico City.

jerezano

Jan 1, 2011, 8:25 AM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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Hello all,

Here in Zacatecas in the magic town of Jerez I have found that the word nivel--level always works. Grado or año are both problematic.

Hasta luego. jerezano

(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jan 1, 2011, 11:44 AM)

Jan 3, 2011, 4:32 PM

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Re: [jerezano] Graduate School? Grades?

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jerezano, I used nivel for years until my kids started correcting me, and like you, I was always understood and only rarely misunderstood. I think it's interesting that my wife never corrected me, so at least she knew that nivel, grado and año were pretty much interchangable.

BTW - those three official levels of education that I couldn't remember the names for are educación básico (primaria — grades 1 thru 6), educación media superior (includes secundaria — grades 7 thru 9 or téchnica and preparatoria — grades 10 thru 12) and educación superior, which is all university levels including posgrado.

Originally, only primaria was mandatory (nationwide). Then, sometime after World War II, secundaria became mandatory (nationwide). Now preparatoria is mandatory in some states, but won't become mandatory nationwide until sometime around 2015 (not sure of the exact year). It will be interesting to see what changes in the Mexican culture come about when that happens.

jerezano

Jan 3, 2011, 8:34 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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Hello all,

God I'm getting old and my memory is weak.

I think secondary education (educación secundaria) became a Mexican federal requirement during the Fox regime, fairly recently.

I remember it happening quite vividly. I just can't remember exactly when. I have been here now for 21 years so I am a bit confused.

Unfortunately the requirement is not enforced. Or at least not here in Zacatecas which is still an agricultural state. In fact the educatión primaria requirement is not enforced either.

Hasta luego, jerezano

Jan 4, 2011, 5:14 PM

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Re: [jerezano] Graduate School? Grades?

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Unfortunately, "mandatory" just doesn't have the weight in México that it has in the NOB cultures—that goes for a LOT of things besides education. There is no real Mexican equivalent to the NOB truant officer, nor are parents brought to task for not at least trying to keep their kids in school.

As far as "mandatory" secundaria, I'm pretty certain that happened (at least in most states) quite a bit before the Fox administration. It was in the latter days of the Fox administration (or the very early days of the Calderón administration) that "mandatory prepa" was voted in (with a 10 year phase-in to allow states that didn't have any state funded preparatoria program to get up to speed). I'm fairly certain that that "mandatory" program will suffer from the lack of enforcement, just as the lower levels do.

Don't talk to ME about Zacatecas being an agricultural state! Remember, I live in Sinaloa, the most "agricultural" of all the states in México—especially if you count the crops grown almost solely for export - LOL. I KNOW that Sinaloa had mandatory, state funded secundaria by at least 1985, because that's when my wife began secundaria in Los Mochis. When she graduated from secundaria, she was unable to go to prepa as she wanted because there were no state funded preparatorias at the time and her folks couldn't afford a "particular", i.e., private, preparatoria. She had to wait until she was able to do her three years in prepa at her own expense before she could enter the university program that she wanted.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Jan 4, 2011, 5:23 PM)

Casa

Jan 4, 2011, 5:45 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Graduate School? Grades?

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In Reply To

As far as "mandatory" secundaria, I'm pretty certain that happened (at least in most states) quite a bit before the Fox administration.

Primary (primaria) education has been “mandatory, Free, and Secular” in Mexico since 1867 with the enactment of the Ley Orgánica de Instrucción Pública.

Secondary (secundaria) has been “mandatory” in Mexico since 1993

Jan 4, 2011, 5:54 PM

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Re: [Casa] Graduate School? Grades?

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Thanks for the clarification, Casa. I was pretty certain that it was about that time for mandatory secundaria (but not positive enough to give a year), although Sinaloa already had state funded secundarias by the early 80s. Sinaloa has quite a number of state funded preparatorias now and had even before the Federal law for the whole Republic was voted in, so I guess that even though we're the leader in some unsavory things, education is and always has been very important in this state.

And here is the actual NEW article 3 of the constitution:

“Artículo 3o. Todo individuo tiene derecho a recibir educación. El Estado –Federación, Estados, Distrito Federal y Municipios– impartirán educación preescolar, primaria, secundaria y media superior. La educación preescolar, la primaria y la secundaria conforman la educación básica; ésta y la media superior serán obligatorias.”

so obviously all levels of education from kinder (1 yr.), primaria (6 yrs.) secundaria (3) years - altogether called educación básica - and preparatoria – media superior – (3 yrs.) are now to be considered mandatory in the Republic - obligatorias

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Jan 4, 2011, 6:29 PM)

Casa

Jan 4, 2011, 6:34 PM

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