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Rolly


Dec 18, 2010, 5:57 PM

Post #1 of 30 (16321 views)

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2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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The Zone A basic minimum wage for 2011 will be $59.80 pesos per day.
This is the base for calculating many government charges including traffic fines and INM requirements.
The 2011 minimum income for an FM3 (No Inmigrante) will be $14,950 per month.
For an FM2 (Inmigrante), it will be $23,920.

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 18, 2010, 8:01 PM)



tonynico

Dec 18, 2010, 6:10 PM

Post #2 of 30 (16288 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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Hello Rolly
So how do they calculate the money required for an fm3? I know it is the minimum times what?

Tony


Rolly


Dec 18, 2010, 6:17 PM

Post #3 of 30 (16284 views)

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Re: [tonynico] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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FM3: min X 250
FM2: min X 400

Rolly Pirate


morgaine7


Dec 18, 2010, 6:19 PM

Post #4 of 30 (16278 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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Thank you, Rolly!

Kate


tonynico

Dec 18, 2010, 7:39 PM

Post #5 of 30 (16259 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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Rolly
Thanks for the reply
I know that the requirement used to be about $1000 u.s and 500 for the dependent
then it went to 1500 and 750 for the dependent.

But using your numbers and the current conversion
it is about 1,200 and change and 600 and change for the dependent.

Tony


Ustlach


Dec 27, 2010, 1:14 PM

Post #6 of 30 (15923 views)

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Re: [Rolly] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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This is going to make my next FM2 renewal an interesting experience. Just using a rounded 24,000 pesos per month and a sort of average exchange rate of 12 pesos to the dollar, this is almost US $2000 per month. (Sure shoots a hole in those arguments about living in Mexico on US $500 a month, doesn't it? [Rhetorical question].)

I don't make that much per month, so I wonder...what will happen to me and my house here?

Should I expect to be denied a visa renewal? Maybe the local INM would take into consideration that I own, outright, a house here. I really think these amounts are what they expect foreigners to spend in the economy, not a guideline of any sort, for what they think it will cost us per month to live here. Either way, I will not be in compliance.

Will I get deported when I go in to pick up my renewal and find I have been denied?

Will I have to go back to an FM3? Would they permit that?

Maybe it is time to get on the FMN (is that the right acronym for the so-called "Tourist Visa"?) bandwagon.

So, in less than three years I have gone from being told $1000 a month will be required, but it can be done on $500, to a new requirement close to $2000 per month. If the requirement is going to double every three, every five, even every ten years, I will soon run out of all possible options to live here legally.

Add to that the new realization that I would lose 32% of the equity in my house if I could ever find someone stupid enough to buy it, and soon the whole proposition (Retiring in Mexico on Social Security) becomes a real joke. Not that I ever believed it could be done on MY Social Security, alone, but I sure as hell didn't expect the requirement to double in three years. (I admit I switched from an FM3 to an FM2, so that accounts for part of the increase).

I hope some people out there thinking about retiring to Mexico will find these posts and be able to apply these facts and data to their decisions. That is why I am posting about this...I know I am going to catch hell from the usual apologist suspects among you for making these unhelpful remarks. But if I had known these things three years ago, I would still be working in California. Live and learn. Though I don't really have enough time left to be able to use this learning experience in any really directly applicable way.

Considering how many times I have been asked to show a visa of any kind in Mexico in the last five years, I might just become a reverse wetback...without involving any actual rivers.


RickS


Dec 27, 2010, 1:33 PM

Post #7 of 30 (15917 views)

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Re: [Ustlach] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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Ustlach, I'm sure you'll get a more formal answer than this, but it is my understanding that as an FM2 holder who owns their home in Mexico, you will be able to get a 50% deduction in those income requirements. Maybe that changed with the 'new' rules but I don't think so.

I'm sort of leery of my answer since I would have presumed that you already knew this..... like maybe it was one of the reasons you switched. And of course, an FM2 is on the path to Immigrante which has no income requirements (I think I have remembered this correctly, and if I have not it will spur someone on to give you the correct information!).

(This post was edited by RickS on Dec 27, 2010, 1:38 PM)


gpkgto

Dec 27, 2010, 2:44 PM

Post #8 of 30 (15891 views)

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Re: [Ustlach] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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While not exactly following the intent of the law, many foreign residents here transfer extra money (from savings for example) in and out of their account for the 3 months prior to a renewal. If you have an extra $2000 somewhere, move it into your account, withdraw it after a few days and then re-deposit it so it looks like you meet the income requirements. When my partner completed his 5 years of FM2 this year and applied for Inmigrado status, INM did not ask for any income information.


(This post was edited by gpkgto on Dec 27, 2010, 2:44 PM)


sioux4noff

Dec 27, 2010, 3:23 PM

Post #9 of 30 (15877 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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We know of several people who cycle money back and forth through accounts to show the required income. It is ultimatley easier for them that way, than trying to explain they have substantial savings, but not much cash flow.
I do beleive that with an FM2 you do still get the 50% reduction in income requirements if you provide proof of ownership. One friend had to bring a photocopy of their entire escritura for their proof. As they don't want to have to do that every year, they do the "money cycling" as mentioned above. Apparently the 50% reduction no longer applies to FM3 holders. The difference is apparently that of inmigrante vs no inmigrante status.
Excuse any mis-spellings above, and if I have used the old terms for the visas. I hope everyone could understand the post.


happycanuck

Dec 27, 2010, 3:41 PM

Post #10 of 30 (15867 views)

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Re: [tonynico] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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Hi

Here's hoping your estimate is correct...I am Canadian and hoping to be able to live on $1300. a month. Do you suppose it is still doable? Haven't picked a spot to settle yet...arriving Cancun on January 12th...will camp out at Hostal Zocalo and look for an apartment within that budget. But would love to know if you think that it is even possible given your insite into living in Mexico. Is there a location that is safe and yet understood to be less expensive?

Would appreciate your input.

Sharon (Happy Canuck
Skype wright416


Rolly


Dec 27, 2010, 4:53 PM

Post #11 of 30 (15857 views)

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Re: [Ustlach] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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Ustlach, under the new rules, you no longer have to show proof of income.
Instead you write a letter saying nothing has changed. Full details here.

Since there is a small chance that your INM office might ask for proof anyway,
recycling some funds might be worth the effort.
If for some reason you cannot qualify for an FM2 renewal, you can revert back to an FM3.

Rolly Pirate


tonynico

Dec 27, 2010, 6:12 PM

Post #12 of 30 (15834 views)

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Re: [happycanuck] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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To be honest I think it would be tough living on 1300 per month at least for me. Cancun is not a cheap place to live. Tourist areas are not cheap. I think you will be able to get a small place with no a.c. for maybe $500 or maybe a little less . It will be nothing to right home about That leave $800
Do you have you medical covered or electric,phone, food, transportation, taxes if you owe any,
entertainment, eating out once in awhile, and on and on. You can do I guess but where you are looking to live it might be a stretch.

I was talking about the legal requirement not what it might actually cost

Tony


(This post was edited by tonynico on Dec 27, 2010, 6:15 PM)


joaquinx


Dec 27, 2010, 7:40 PM

Post #13 of 30 (15808 views)

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Re: [happycanuck] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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It is possible no matter what others say. There are rentals from 2,000 to 4,000 pesos that would fit in your budget. Get a local paper and start searching. Remember, it will not be in the tourist area nor in el centro, but farther out from the center of town. Air conditioning will be the killer of the rent and now is the cool season and you might not be using the a/c until May - mas o menos.

Don't worry about writing home about your humble dwelling, but remember that you will be living in Cancun.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


Gringal

Dec 28, 2010, 8:26 AM

Post #14 of 30 (15751 views)

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Re: [Rolly] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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Rolly,
I read your link for the requirements, and it appears that if an individual needs an income of over 23,000pesos, then a wife would bring it to 35,000 pesos. So, the question is: does the ownership of property for an FM-2 renewal reduce that figure to half that, under the new rules? That's not clear to me, from what's been said so far.


Gringal

Dec 28, 2010, 8:30 AM

Post #15 of 30 (15750 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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IMO, Cancun is not the only nice beach town in Mexico, but is probably one of the most expensive, so if his goal is to live near the beach on a small income, he could probably check out some less tourist-centered areas and be better able to stretch his pesos to cover and leave a little for extras.


Rolly


Dec 28, 2010, 8:36 AM

Post #16 of 30 (15747 views)

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Re: [Gringal] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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At what point is the ownership discount applied?
Interesting question to which I don't have an answer.
But I'll venture a guess that the rule, what ever it is, is not uniformly applied.

Rolly Pirate


jerezano

Jan 1, 2011, 7:36 AM

Post #17 of 30 (15501 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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Hello Rolly,

Could you post the minimum wage for all zones? Some of us use that for calculating wage increases for domestic employees. For example, I am in zone C.

As ever, jerezano


Rolly


Jan 1, 2011, 8:08 AM

Post #18 of 30 (15492 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Basic Minimum Wage of 2011

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It is already posted, but here it is again.
http://www.conasami.gob.mx/.../2011/01_01_2011.pdf
Look at the top line.

Rolly Pirate


el profe

Jan 4, 2011, 10:20 AM

Post #19 of 30 (15233 views)

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Re: [Rolly] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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Hello all. Here is a historical list of minimum wage rates. I used this to try to trend out what future minimum salaries would be so I could estimate a possible minimum monthly income needed for FM2/3 visas.

Tom
Attachments: Salario _Minimo.doc (87.0 KB)


arbon

Jan 4, 2011, 10:59 AM

Post #20 of 30 (15223 views)

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Re: [el profe] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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I think you will find the annual increase to be the official Mexican inflation rate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



roni_smith


Jan 20, 2011, 7:39 PM

Post #21 of 30 (14679 views)

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Re: [Gringal] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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I am told that in the state of Yucatán, the 50% discount for home ownership is not being given, but a healthy amount in a savings account can make the income thing work - friends with an income of ~ $1100 a month have FM2's based, in part, on assets in savings/investment accounts
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog



rayitodeluna

Feb 10, 2011, 6:39 PM

Post #22 of 30 (13922 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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In Reply To
We know of several people who cycle money back and forth through accounts to show the required income. It is ultimatley easier for them that way, than trying to explain they have substantial savings, but not much cash flow.
I do beleive that with an FM2 you do still get the 50% reduction in income requirements if you provide proof of ownership. One friend had to bring a photocopy of their entire escritura for their proof. As they don't want to have to do that every year, they do the "money cycling" as mentioned above. Apparently the 50% reduction no longer applies to FM3 holders. The difference is apparently that of inmigrante vs no inmigrante status.
Excuse any mis-spellings above, and if I have used the old terms for the visas. I hope everyone could understand the post.




Does this tactic work, even for those that are newly applying for a FM3 visa from the States? My fiance (a Mexican national) and two children will be moving to MX in 8 month, and I work very little now and am also finishing my BA. So my "income" is almost nill, but we are living in the States without a problem because of my fiance's income. I also have some money that I just recently inherited with the passing of my father- so we have more than enough to make the move, we just don't make 1200+600+600 a month (for me and my children to all apply as one unit). We do have a savings acount that we can cylce that much money into and out of for the next 8 months though, will that work? Is that legal? Thanks for any help!

edited to fix typos

~~~~~~ Enjoying life in northern D.F. with our family of Americans and chilangos.
Family and expat blog here : http://threecurlygirlys.blogspot.mx/ ~~~~~~

(This post was edited by rallitodeluna on Feb 10, 2011, 6:53 PM)


sparks


Feb 11, 2011, 7:44 AM

Post #23 of 30 (13835 views)

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Re: [rallitodeluna] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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I don't think legal is an issue because they don't ask where the deposits come from. I did it before my Social Security started. Lately they haven't been asking for proof of income in many immigration offices but I wouldn't count on it.

Simply having a savings account that will cover the family for a year may be all you need and forget the monthly stream

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


tonynico

Feb 11, 2011, 10:01 AM

Post #24 of 30 (13780 views)

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Re: [Rolly] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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Date Sent:
Feb 11, 2011, 9:45 AM

In New York they want proof of income not just bank statements. They do not care if you have 3 million in the bank.

I have a quick question. All Mexican embassies in the U.S. no longer issue fm3, but instead attach visas to the passport. When you get to Mexico you get the fm3.
Why bother you can just go straight to Mexico and get the fm3 without going to the consulate in the U.S.
Since you no longer need a Casa Meneja why would you do this?


Rolly


Feb 11, 2011, 11:18 AM

Post #25 of 30 (13755 views)

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Re: [tonynico] 2011 Minimum Income Required for FM3 and FM2

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What is attached to the passport is not a visa; it's evidence that an FM3 has been applied for, all the paperwork done and the fees paid. That card is accepted by aduana as proof of an FM3 for the purpose of importing household belongings. While a menaje is no longer issued by the consulates, the customs broker still needs evidence of an FM3 (or FM2) in order to process the shipment duty free.

Once the card holder arrives in México, the rest of the paper work must be done at IMN office to get the actual FM3 card. That will involve filling out a Formato Básico. furnishing pictures and proof of address. This must be doen within 30 days of arrival.

Rolly Pirate
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