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Reefhound


Nov 24, 2010, 6:55 PM

Post #26 of 39 (6052 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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At the end of the day, it all comes down to what each of us feels willing to accept as a reasonable risk.

There are two parts to it, the part that you may be targeted and the part that you may happen to be next to the target. From my perspective, it doesn't matter which since the consequences can be the same.

I doubt anyone would disagree that the odds are highly in your favor that nothing will happen. Even if someone was killed every single day, that takes but an instant leaving the other 23 hours plus where no one is killed. But would you ride down such a road?


chinagringo


Nov 24, 2010, 7:32 PM

Post #27 of 39 (6045 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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I am apparently in the minority in that I do not differentiate between Mexican American citizens and those white full blooded citizens who can claim a lineage back to the DAR. An American citizen is just that without regard to their heritage!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Reefhound


Nov 24, 2010, 9:25 PM

Post #28 of 39 (6032 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Of course, the only point about them being Mexican American was that they had roots and relatives and friends in the area, that these weren't typical travelers passing through, not that they were any less victimized. Your chances of being a victim in an area have a lot to do with how long you are in the area and what you are doing in the area. Hang out in Juarez 5 days a week for most of the year and your risk is a bit higher than if passing through twice a year.


Altahabana


Nov 25, 2010, 3:41 AM

Post #29 of 39 (6019 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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[C]ould you elaborate as to what you think is the true risk on that stretch?

One of the others said it well. Chances are you will experience nothing out of the ordinary on any of these routes. Being caught in the crossfire of a balacera is probably the least of the risks although I don't know how one can possibly disprove that is a risk by subsequent personal experiences. I buy barbacoa a couple times of month at a stand 50 yards from the initial epicenter of the 7/16 balacera without incident. Two weeks ago the military chased down and killed a truck load of Zetas a couple of blocks away. All of this is in a colonia that historically has had a Zeta presence and a track record of past incidents. I'm starting to think maybe I'll buy my barbacoa somewhere else from now on even though the risk of anything happening at 9 am on a Sunday morning is extremely low.

The primary risk is robbery whether organized in a reten or spontaneous. The Zetas recruit/coerce people from a variety of backgrounds, including municipal police (the municipal police in NL are derisively callled "La Polizeta") to serve as halcones or lookouts to alert them to military movements and potential robbery victims. The demographics of the Zetas have changed and the rank and file are now mostly coked up 20-something street thugs which makes any contact potentially more volatile.

Again, I don't care what route people use. You can rationalize almost any choice by using statistics or past personal experience. Everyone has a different tolerance for risk based on their personality, experience or any number of other factors.


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Nov 25, 2010, 4:15 AM)


sally.bender

Nov 25, 2010, 7:56 AM

Post #30 of 39 (5991 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Since Rolly has so rudely dismissed me because of my four previous emails and announced to the forum that I will "not find a happy home" in Mexico, I must ask everyone to please re-read my posts. They have pertained to false information about my home country of Mexico, where I happily own a home and live with my husband. I will shout 'til my dying breath: if you are going to bad-mouth Mexico, at least have your facts straight.
Rolly, shame on you for shooting the messenger.
Now, to get back to topic. There are currently two people on this forum who have asked Altahabana, what are the problems with that 30 mile route that you stated will give the driver "first hand experience with narco insurgency?" We don't care about the rest of Mexico, nearby routes or areas with problems. Alta's post was about a specific 30 mile stretch. What are the issues there?
If moderators give passes to blanket statements about the horrors of Mexico and put-down the members who question the validity of those statements, this forum is in trouble.


chinagringo


Nov 25, 2010, 8:19 AM

Post #31 of 39 (5985 views)

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Re: [sally.bender] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Given the level of protest suggesting that "rose colored glasses" are in order -me thinks that there may be an ulterior motive? Commercial interests maybe?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Rolly


Nov 25, 2010, 8:49 AM

Post #32 of 39 (5981 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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I'm reminded of the old adage -- when you find yourself in a hole, it's best to stop digging.

Rolly Pirate


Altahabana


Nov 25, 2010, 9:09 AM

Post #33 of 39 (5974 views)

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Re: [sally.bender] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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There are currently two people on this forum who have asked Altahabana, what are the problems with that 30 mile route that you stated will give the driver "first hand experience with narco insurgency?"

What is it about this paragraph that you don't understand?

"The primary risk is robbery whether organized in a reten or spontaneous. The Zetas recruit/coerce people from a variety of backgrounds, including municipal police (the municipal police in NL are derisively callled "La Polizeta") to serve as halcones or lookouts to alert them to military movements and potential robbery victims. The demographics of the Zetas have changed and the rank and file are now mostly coked up 20-something street thugs which makes any contact potentially more volatile."

Perhaps I should write more simply if your level of reading comprehension is the norm for this board. I never said that Columbia WILL GIVE a passing motorist a narco experience. I said it is the route in the Laredo corridor . . . "more likely to give a motorist a first hand exprience with the narco insurgency, even if it is only a slight risk." Do you want me to explain or interpret that for you?

People have disagreed with me but I don't know that anyone has ever accused me of posting false information. Your arrogance is dumbfounding. I am finished responding to you.


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Nov 25, 2010, 9:16 AM)


Brian

Nov 25, 2010, 10:22 AM

Post #34 of 39 (5945 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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"People have disagreed with me but I don't know that anyone has ever accused me of posting false information. Your arrogance is dumbfounding. I am finished responding to you."

That will not be easy, Altahabana. SallyBender is just another of several usernames registered by the same individual here on MexConnect. A common trait of his is to accuse others of posting false information. He is very sensitive, however, to challenges of his own qualifications to post information and frequently complains about his posts being edited and has threatened to stop posting all together. When a fresh topic interests him, he rejoins with another username and says things like "I just joined but noticed that so-and-so is always doing such and such". You are in good company as a victim of his attacks. Recently, he was called out by the US Consul for SMA, Ed Clancy on the CivilSMA list. Ed wrote:
"Ray, have you noticed that you have responded to my emails (now and before) by
starting, "You are wrong about this, Ed" ? It makes me want to reserve my
comments for my office hours. Maybe that would be best anyway."

I hope Ed won't stop posting because of this person and hope you don't either.


dongringo_catemaco


Nov 25, 2010, 7:34 PM

Post #35 of 39 (5837 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Frankly, I have not travelled those roads, but thank you for avering that travel wherever is as safe as it can get. Even in Tamaulipas.
Visit Catemaco News



Altahabana


Nov 26, 2010, 7:30 AM

Post #36 of 39 (5794 views)

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Re: [dongringo_catemaco] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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In Reply To
Frankly, I have not travelled those roads, but thank you for avering that travel wherever is as safe as it can get. Even in Tamaulipas.


http://www.jornada.unam.mx/...amp;article=003n1pol

http://www.milenio.com/node/577372

http://www.bostonherald.com/...1298832&srvc=rss


(This post was edited by Altahabana on Nov 26, 2010, 7:35 AM)


robrt8

Nov 30, 2010, 10:30 AM

Post #37 of 39 (5669 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Altahabana
I understand there is a lot happening.
What I'd like to know is what specific knowledge you have about incidents involving US travelers. Maybe this should be extended to any of the routes travelers take through or around NL.
It would seem that the Consulate, or the press on either side of the border, would be aware of something as serious as a carjacking, for example.


Reefhound


Nov 30, 2010, 1:02 PM

Post #38 of 39 (5637 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Maybe they have. From what I've seen, the consulates almost never release details on any specific incident or provide access to the incidents reported to them.

As for the press, you know how that goes. What becomes a story depends on all kinds of variables. For every incident that gets turned into a big story there are hundreds of others that get casually mentioned in the closing paragraph of another story or not mentioned at all.


Altahabana


Nov 30, 2010, 3:45 PM

Post #39 of 39 (5617 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Return drive from Mexico and a scientific discovery

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Altahabana
I understand there is a lot happening.
What I'd like to know is what specific knowledge you have about incidents involving US travelers. Maybe this should be extended to any of the routes travelers take through or around NL.
It would seem that the Consulate, or the press on either side of the border, would be aware of something as serious as a carjacking, for example.


I am assuming you are not familiar with press coverage in the Mexican border cities. The 7/16 balacera that left at least twelve dead and sparked road blockades and mass hysteria received not one word of coverage in any Nuevo Laredo daily. Neither did the incident in October that shut down much of the city. Considering the scope of the criminal activities of the Zetas in this area, a single carjacking would not warrant coverage in the Laredo press. There was a news story and press coverage last year in Laredo following a rash of carjackings within NL itself. The incidents were reported to Laredo PD and the victims were trans-border residents or paisanos in transit.

At the volunteer warden meetings we are told about incidents, not names. As I stated before the incidents on Highway 2 relate to commercial and passenger vehicle hijackings, narco retenes and robbery. The other topics that are discussed concern areas where the Zetas are operating within the city, their patterns of movement in and out of Nuevo Laredo, general observations about military operations, how to avoid getting in the middle of something, places to avoid etc.

I am puzzled by the emphasis on this thread on US TRAVELERS. I get the impression that some people apparently believe that US/Canadian/non-Mexican travelers are somehow immune to the general risks or that the risks for them are substantially less. The risks are present for anyone who uses the highways.

What route people use is their business and if it is that important to them they should use Columbia. If someone wants to believe that highway is safe--for whatever reason--- they can believe that.
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