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Peter

Sep 18, 2010, 7:33 PM

Post #1 of 16 (10205 views)

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Industrial-quality Stove

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It looks like it's about time I get ready to outfit the new kitchen in my remodel. Before I design the counters and such I need to make my selection for a stove so I know just what dimensions to allow for it.

I am asking if anyone here has a preferrence for a particular brand or type of commercial stove available here in Mexico, some particular features they like or can't live without? I have seen in use, in stores, and online brands like San-Son and Coriat. Does anyone here have any preferrence among these brands or know of some others that deserve attention?

I am certain I want at least four burners, a large plancha, a large oven, and gratinador. I am debating the merits of having a freidor and/or asador or not due to extra grease or smoke, or just how much I would use them - I already have a gas grill for outside and for especially smoke-prone items but having the asador built-in would allow me to "finish" certain items without having to take them outdoors to the grill.

There is a model of the San-Son, SNGEM is their model designation, that has ALL those features and is a monster arount 6 feet wide, it dwarfs the Viking 48" I had in California. It is beautiful, it is tempting, but can anybody reason with me why it may not be a good one to purchase? Or more importantly, does anyone have a different brand or configuration they would recommend?

Esperanza, if we do our cook-off when my place is finished I would feel obligated to let you use the new kitchen while I prepared my dishes in the small apartment kitchen upstairs, so I ask your input as well. Thanks.

Bennie García

Sep 18, 2010, 7:57 PM

Post #2 of 16 (10201 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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The owner of Coriat was a former partner in San-Son. There is little difference between the 2 brands. They are decent stoves, probably a little less sophisticated than a Wolf or Vulcan but the price reflects that also. They are also easy to maintain and parts are easy to acquire.

You could also purchase a separate salamandra for gratinando and install it above the stove.

Peter

Sep 18, 2010, 8:26 PM

Post #3 of 16 (10200 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Industrial-quality Stove

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Thanks, I remember Wolf as a brand NOB but didn't know it might be available here. Seems to me I've run across Vulcan but didn't find information on them in a cursory glance. Sounds like I should do more shopping around just to be sure but if I settle on San-Son or Coriat I would not be doing too bad. I appreciate your input.

Peter

Sep 19, 2010, 6:40 AM

Post #4 of 16 (10179 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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I have some question about the layout of the kitchen as well. Tere has picked up magazines to get ideas about designing our kitchen and I would like to set it up according to her suggestions, though we will jointly hash out any final decisions.

One design feature that is eye-catching but I fail to find good purpose for is to have the stove in a separate island in middle. Since I do not see that as providing 360 degree access to stoves that are really designed to be operated from only the front side I believe we will just situate it against the wall in the customary fashion. Am I missing anything? Is there a good reason to that?

If our final design permits the space for it then I may favor an island that could be used for cutting/preparation or a serving/staging area. I think I would insist that it be movable even if its purpose is to remain mostly stationary.

About the only design element that makes absolute sense to me is to build the sink and counters in an "L" shape in the corner with more than adequate space on both sides for preparation areas for cutting/chopping or for appliances like a mixer or blender, and utilizing the less accessible corner for dish drainer space.

In the past I have had to made-do with whatever kitchen design that had been provided but now have an opportunity to design something better. Ventilation could be a concern. I have about a 3½ x 5m room that is closed on three sides but open on the other with floor to ceiling glass and a large opening window. I have made sure there are numerous electrical outlets available in all areas and my plumbing connections are by a rear corner.

I am fishing for ideas for something I have not thought of or something people might wish they had or couldn't live without. Very open to suggestions.

chinagringo

Sep 19, 2010, 7:10 AM

Post #5 of 16 (10173 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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Peter:

When conducting your study of kitchen designs, I would guess that you may have seen cooktops installed in islands but rarely full stoves. In our recent design of a kitchen, we did consider the island cooktop concept but finally decided on a mounting in cabinets along the kitchen wall. Two major considerations for our decision were: 1) the interruption of the kitchen "sight" lines with an overhead hood above an island. One option might have been a downdraft vent system but we were not satisfied with operational efficiency with this option. Island mounted vent systems typically require a larger vent fan that may produce more noise. 2) A wall mount cook surface with an overhead hood tends to confine fumes, etc into a smaller area and easier to keep clean.

In studying various manufacturers of cooktops/stoves, it came to our attention that upper end manufacturers such as WOLF, VIKING produce products with sex appeal, sizzle, high consumer recognition but for whatever reason require more service and maintenance. As a result, they do not rate highly.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Peter

Sep 19, 2010, 8:12 AM

Post #6 of 16 (10164 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Industrial-quality Stove

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Thanks, I have no first-hand experience with Wolf but did have a Viking 48" cooktop with griddle and grill, California is all about sex appeal. Always a vetilation problem with things on the grill unless it was just used to finish-off something already mostly cooked. And, yes, I believe you are absolutely right about island cooktops. This time I believe I want a full unit with oven and broiler, so no island.

A recent visit to Ajijic our hotel had San-Son stoves in their rooms' kitchens. That gave me a chance to get a good look at their units and I was favorably impressed. The only thing I didn't like was that it used a pilot light rather than a starter and that seemed to be the case for those I have seen in industrial kitchen appliance stores as well. Perhaps newer models may utilize manual starters or can be retrofitted. A pilot light can eat up a lot of gas and can be a danger.

Earlier poster Bennie Garcia indicates the Coriat is very similar to the San-Son and both are good brands with good serviceability and better priced than Wolf and such. It seems to me there is another commercial stove here in Mexico that may be worth looking at but I don't remember the name so can't get information on it just yet. Thanks.

Bennie García

Sep 19, 2010, 12:03 PM

Post #7 of 16 (10154 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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You say your kitchen measures 3.5m x 5m and you have 3 walls and one open side. What is the width of the open side?

Peter

Sep 19, 2010, 1:06 PM

Post #8 of 16 (10147 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Industrial-quality Stove

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Best to say the room is about 3.7m wide x 5m deep and the adjoining wall has its opening at the end so is about 4m in length. The open end I was initially speaking of is actually semi-closed off by floor to ceiling glass and metal bars with windows and part of a double-door arrangement that open to the courtyard - it is about 3.7m on that end, as is the back wall.

This part of the house is to the rear of the lot and for that reason completely closed on three sides, then open to the courtyard in the front of it. It seems to get more confusing as I try to describe it.

Vichil

Sep 20, 2010, 6:08 AM

Post #9 of 16 (10099 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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The Coriat is a great stove but has the same feature as other commercial stoves, the pilot is always on and if you disconnect them, you loose the security feature. The knobs are easily turned on which is great when pilots are on but dangerous when they are not. We had an old one in the kitchen when we bought the house and I ended up replacing it because of that feature. I sure mis it and in the years we had it , we never had any problems. It is a real workhorse.
You have to get the salamender if you want a broiler.

Peter

Sep 20, 2010, 8:24 AM

Post #10 of 16 (10086 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Industrial-quality Stove

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You have to get the salamender if you want a broiler.

Thanks. It seems that is another name for the feature most of the brochures are calling a gratinador and seems to be analogous to the broiler I am accustomed to having NOB except that these here seem to lack the door/cover that our broilers had and are not found in the usual place under the main oven.

That is a desireable feature I will want for the stove for any number of applications but right off I am thinking of melting and browning the cheese on top of an open-faced sandwich.

I think Coriat and San-Son are the two brands it will come down to. Perhaps price and availability of model and features will be the deciding factors.

Bennie García

Sep 20, 2010, 9:44 AM

Post #11 of 16 (10077 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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Peter, you have probably already discovered this in your research on kitchen design but just in case you haven't I will mention it. The guiding principal in kitchen layout is the work triangle, the 3 legs of which are the unimpeded distances between stove - sink - refer - stove. You want a triangle that doesn't exceed 26' when the 3 legas are added together. This keeps you from having to walk to far to access either of the 3 main appliances.

Make a list of every detail you have in mind (both functional and decorative) and a list of every appliance. Include mixers, microwave, coffee makers, toasters etc.

Standard kitchen cab sizes are 24" deep base cabinets and 12" deep wall cabs. Countertop height is 36". Space between counter and bottom of upper cabs is 18". There is no minimum or maximum height for wall cabs but 30" is the normal size. Will you be using over counter lighting recessed into the bottoms of the wall cabs? Allow for that.

Once you decide on the location of those then you need to design for minimum and maximum allowances. The first thing here is to gather the dimensions of ALL appliances. Your commercial stove will more than likely be deeper than a typical home model so it will protrude into the space between any parallel cabinet such as the island. The minimum recommended between an island and another run of cabinets is 42" but 60" is far better especially with a commercial range.

There are a lot of small details that make the difference in a well functioning kitchen and one that doesn't serve you well. Small things like make sure not to install a refer right up against a wall. The door may require opening to more than 90° to allow for clearance of pull out bins and drawers.

All of these dimensions are easily found on the web. Do a little research and plan carefully. Remember, in a kitchen form follows function.

Hound Dog

Sep 20, 2010, 1:34 PM

Post #12 of 16 (10056 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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Peter says:

California is all about sex appeal.

God, Peter, you are such an effete snob for a redneck living at Lake Pátzcuaro - the trailer-trash capital of the universe. It happens we had a Coriat stove in our house in Ajijic which we got rid of just because, well, one gets rid of things. It was a fine stove. We inherited the Coriat range but in about 2007 we bought a Coriat salamandre (broiler) that we hardly ever used. That sucker was expensive (say, 6,000 Pesos) but it is sitting in our house gathering dust so we´d sell it to you if you can hitch up the mule and find your way over here from sorry-assed Michoacan to pick it up. It never suited us as Brigitte was too short to reach the damn thing.

PM me if you are interested.

Dawg

Peter

Sep 20, 2010, 2:23 PM

Post #13 of 16 (10049 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Industrial-quality Stove

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Thanks, very useful information. I should have known there was a science around it but up until this effort I never had to design a kitchen but make do with what existed.

Not having those in mind at the start it does look like I will be within that 26' triangle, part from planning and part by accident. Thanks for mentioning the lighting, that was another area not entirely planned for. Two overhead lights and a front wall of glass should handle most of it and the range hood should put it directly over the work area. Despite my late start it already looks better planned than even my kitchen in Apple Valley along the Happy Trails Highway, California's biggest redneck haven outside of Bakersfield.

I was out shopping for a stove today and got more ideas and information. I'll detail some of that in my response to the Dawg, he seems to be asking for it.

Hound Dog

Sep 20, 2010, 6:14 PM

Post #14 of 16 (10036 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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I was out shopping for a stove today and got more ideas and information. I'll detail some of that in my response to the Dawg, he seems to be asking for it.

All joking aside, Peter, we do have the Coriat broiler we bought to compliment the Coriat range and it is a fine implement and broils meats beautifully. It is just taking up room here. The damn thing was expensive but Dawg will sell it to you at a highly reasonable price. PM me if you are interested. We are going to sell it to somebody.

Dawg

Peter

Sep 21, 2010, 1:15 AM

Post #15 of 16 (10011 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Industrial-quality Stove

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Thanks, Dawg, I will be PM'ing you for details. I could use that salamandre you speak of if not in the new kitchen I'm planning then elsewhere in this vast, brick mobile home I'm building. BTW, We'uns become big city folk an' livin' in Mo-Rel-Ya now.

I was going to answer lightheartedly and use that reply to detail my shopping experiences earlier but got smacked with a sudden toothache and spent all afternoon and evening dealing with pain and sleeping so now am up in middle of the night and that chord of humor escapes me at the moment. I'm thinking I had some clever thoughts lined-up but seem to have misplaced them for the time being.

Anywho, I stumbled upon a couple other brands worthy of mention along with the San-Son and Coriat. These would be Drago and Ryse, two more Mexican-made brands of high quality. The Coriat and Drago have many similar features and price-out about the same while the Ryse is the heavier and more expensive by a substantial margin. Since this is for a private home I think I can live comfortably with the bargain-brands which for their fully-loaded 72" everythingyoucouldwant vittle-cookin' lizard-scorcher model runs around $31k mx, then add another $10k for the Ryse of similar complexity. It appears I about found the limit to my extravagance.

All of these have gas pilots which may be OK for a restaurant but for in-home where I have to let Tere out of the kitchen for restroom breaks and sleep time those idle moments eat up a lot of gas fueling that pilot. Vichil tells me your Coriat stove did not have the safety catch on the burner controls, were easy to open by accident, so could be a hazard if used as we will do and light it manually. These newest models all have the safety control so need to be depressed in order to open the gas. If I want electronic igniters it would seem I'd have to revert back to the built-for-playboys Viking I had back in that hillbilly haven of Apple Valley. Tere can light the stove with that long-snouted lighter I use for torching my bong.

I'll contact you soon about that Coriat broiler. I'll be needing to hit Super Lake sometime soon to stock-up on some more grits, and it looks like I'm down to my last can of Hormel tamales also.

Peter

Sep 28, 2010, 8:12 AM

Post #16 of 16 (9859 views)

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Re: [Peter] Industrial-quality Stove

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At this point it looks like Delta is the purchase I will be making. All the stoves are good quality with some being lighter, heavier, or just having some different features. The Delta is our choice because of a couple features like pull-out catch pans below the burners and asador, and mainly our choice because of its arrangement of cooking areas which just happens to be better suited for our intended use and layout of our kitchen.

The Delta does not have a safety catch on its control knobs - which we deem important as we intend to use it without its gas pilots lit at all times. But the knobs are recessed where they will not be likely to be turned on by accident. Also its pilots can be controlled individually by screwdriver accessed control valves located in the are of the main control knobs and this wil give us the option of using only some of the more necessary pilots when we deem desireable.

We have the approximate measurements we need and an idea of prices and features we want, however the time to purchase is still some time away and we will continue our shopping.