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rondobs

Sep 17, 2010, 1:11 PM

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San Miguel de Allende Safety

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My wife and I are retired and spent one month (mid February-mid March) in San Miguel de Allende. We enjoyed our time there very much and would like to return for a longer period of time this year but are becoming increasingly concerned about the criminal activity being reported in local newspapers (most of it along the U.S./Mexico border.
Can anyone comment on these concerns or point us somewhere were me might be able to get some unbiased and accurate information.
Thanks.

Ron in Canada

chinagringo

Sep 17, 2010, 1:20 PM

Post #2 of 21 (9941 views)

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Re: [rondobs] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Ron:

You might send a PM to robt65 of this forum. He has driven those highways a number of times recently.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

RickS

Sep 17, 2010, 2:44 PM

Post #3 of 21 (9923 views)

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Re: [rondobs] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Ron, I see that you are a new member to the forum. Welcome aboard.

One of the best ways to get an answer to your question is to spend the next week(?) looking at old posts. There will be a ton of posts discussing, over time, how this problem is becoming not only a border issue. Another 'tool' is the Search Posts function at the top of any page.Click on it and enter something in the 'Search string' then submit. When you get some results pay attention to the date (right side) as you may have pulled up some posts from many years ago.

(Of course, none of the above should preclude anyone from responding to Ron directly about the subject!)

(This post was edited by RickS on Sep 17, 2010, 2:46 PM)

gpkgto

Sep 17, 2010, 3:02 PM

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Re: [rondobs] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Check out the San Miguel forum on yahoo groups--lots of crime issues lately: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Civil_SMA

Brian

Sep 17, 2010, 5:32 PM

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Re: [gpkgto] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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In Reply To

Check out the San Miguel forum on yahoo groups--lots of crime issues lately: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Civil_SMA

Yes and no. The moderator allows discussion of crime in SMA as long as the government (which is charged with protecting the residents) is not brought into the discussion. I don't think this is realistic. Police corruption is a fact of life in Mexico that many foreigners are unwilling, or unable, to grasp. An inordinate number of police have themselves been involved in major crimes. SMA is for the most part much safer than other mexican
towns of its size. But there is also a dark underbelly which many people do not want to acknowledge or even discuss. Rather than look to the civil list or Atencion for information about safety issues, I would suggest reading the Mexican newspapers such as Correo or El Sol del Bajio. San Miguel is not an island unto itself.

(This post was edited by Brian on Sep 17, 2010, 5:34 PM)

azheat

Sep 18, 2010, 8:01 AM

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Re: [Brian] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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In Reply To

But there is also a dark underbelly which many people do not want to acknowledge or even discuss. Rather than look to the civil list or Atencion for information about safety issues, I would suggest reading the Mexican newspapers such as Correo or El Sol del Bajio. San Miguel is not an island unto itself.

Exactly. And if you try to discuss this with most folks who
live in San Miguel, you may find yourself frozen out of future
social contact with them.

We lived in San Miguel part-time for two years. There is actually
quite a bit of "stuff" going on there for a town of it's size. And
we had no doubt about the existence of the "underbelly"--all you
have to do is befriend a few local tradesmen for example (plumbers,
electricians, etc.) and have some conversations with them--and
over time you will discover the Mexican population of San Miguel
has quite a different take on the "magic" than most expats.

When we left San Miguel we invited our electrician over to give
him a number of items that would be helpful for his family. He
stood with us literally crying over our departure, expressing his
sadness and anger about what is happening in San Miguel.

So do your homework--it's such a pretty town, but there's a good
reason there are so many homes for sale--and why there are even
active realtors there who do NOT own their own homes. They rent.

Hound Dog

Sep 18, 2010, 10:00 AM

Post #7 of 21 (9776 views)

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Re: [azheat] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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azheat writes:

We lived in San Miguel part-time for two years. There is actually
quite a bit of "stuff" going on there for a town of it's size. And
we had no doubt about the existence of the "underbelly"--all you
have to do is befriend a few local tradesmen for example (plumbers,
electricians, etc.) and have some conversations with them--and
over time you will discover the Mexican population of San Miguel
has quite a different take on the "magic" than most expats.

This situation is certainly not unique to San Miguel. This "underbelly" exists as well in the Chapala municipality where many foreign residents adamantly deny its existence for a couple of reasons. First, they don´t speak adequate Spanish and do not follow the local news on a daily basis as they should and, secondly, because they really don´t want to hear of the troll under the bridge endangering their little piece of paradise. Most of the bad news we receive comes, as azheat says, from locals and informal community word-of-mouth of which foreigners are not always a part. We were here for years before locals trusted us enough to cut us in on the local take on community events around us and our eyes were opened. Much of the news of local crime at "Lakeside" is not reported or is under-reported in the local media and the informal community pipeline is often at odds with local media.

What is interesting is that in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, where we also live, most of the news of local interest whether crime related or not is reported on local radio stations and through neighborhood word-of-mouth. As the expat community there is not particularly significant, this is not really an issue. So the stratification between the local Coleto community and the community of expats living in the Jovel Valley is not as significant just because there are so few expats and most of those speak Spanish. Still, if you are an expat living in San Cristóbal without a decent command of Spanish and local trusted acquaintances, you can be cut off from local news of interest to you for security or political reasons.

Whether in San Miguel, Chapala or Chiapas, you cannot depend on local law enforcement or the print media for local news on crime of interest to you. What the hell; if you were hispanic from Latin America living as an expat in small town U.S.A. and with little or no command of English, you would be cut off as well. That´s life.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Sep 18, 2010, 10:25 AM)

azheat

Sep 18, 2010, 1:32 PM

Post #8 of 21 (9729 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Yep, that's life, especially in Mexico!

The thing is--we still enjoy the heck out of San Miguel too.

You just need to understand you're pretty much on your
own and as the "Dawg" says--go to Mexico with your
eyes wide open and your "reality" thermostat set on high.

I think it comes down to the fact that you have to determine
for yourself how much risk you can tolerate, and whether it's
worth it to you.

Mexico is really a terrible sickness--once you've "caught the
bug" you may find the only cure is to keep going back
for more. :-)

rondobs

Sep 19, 2010, 3:34 AM

Post #9 of 21 (9646 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Thanks Neil. Contact made.

Ron

Goyo

Sep 19, 2010, 2:02 PM

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Hound Dog, Azheat and Brian, thank you for your honesty. You can add Sayulita to the list. Clueless gringo (vacation) homeowners and (temporary) ex-pats don't know what they don't know. Their thin skins and feathers get ruffled when their fantasy induced delusions are countered with facts or opinions about reality.

gene089

Sep 19, 2010, 7:20 PM

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Re: [Goyo] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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One of the reasons I follow and enjoy this forum, and several others, as well as several blogs, chat rooms, and Mexican news web sites, is an attempt to know and understand the safety risks of traveling into Mexico to help me make a decision on if I should travel to Mexico and if so, how and where. I am somewhat limited in my reading of Mexican news web sites as I cannot read Spanish so only English sites or those translated by Google or Bing are helpful to me. I understand the reluctance to be critical of the situation on a public forum as that may bring criticism or who knows what, but if anybody could be a little more specific about "stuff","underbelly", and "reality", I would appreciate it.

(This post was edited by gene089 on Sep 19, 2010, 7:28 PM)

DavidHF

Sep 20, 2010, 6:17 AM

Post #12 of 21 (9428 views)

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Re: [gene089] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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For daily news of Mexico in English: www.mexicotodayblog.com/

Brian

Sep 20, 2010, 7:07 AM

Post #13 of 21 (9415 views)

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Re: [gene089] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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In Reply To

I understand the reluctance to be critical of the situation on a public forum as that may bring criticism or who knows what, but if anybody could be a little more specific about "stuff","underbelly", and "reality", I would appreciate it.

At the risk of seeming esoteric to those with only a superficial understanding of dynamics influencing SMA, here is a recent example of an "off topic" and thus censored posting on the civil list. It was in response to someone who viewed a map of Mexico which purported to display areas controlled by specific drug cartels. He concluded that it appeared SMA was in dispute and I offered a reminder which, in my opinion demonstrates why SMA is tranquilo. There is peace but it comes with a cost:
"
> It was disputed for a time between La Familia and the Zetas. Then chief Trujillo was in a tight spot and had to make a decision when some of the latter paid him a visit and said they were going to set up business in competition with La Familia. He knew that SMA could not handle two cartels and would become a battleground like so many Mexican towns. In a bold move, he ran the Zetas out of town and, unlike other police chiefs, lived to tell the tale which was heavily publicized in the local press. Obviously, forces much more powerful than his local cadre of officers had his back. History tells us that the goverment and the major drug cartels can operate without violence but only when there is no competition."

robrt8

Sep 20, 2010, 7:36 PM

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Re: [rondobs] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Let me say that you've asked this question in the wrong place. You, having spent a month this year, have a hell of a lot more personal experience than the usual suspects here, who have no idea how "safe" San Miguel is. They're just sitting around, bored, somewhere in Texas or the Mexican equivalent of Barstow, CA, playing experts.

Brian

Sep 21, 2010, 7:40 AM

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Re: [robrt8] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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This is an example of superficial knowledge acquired by yearly summer vacations in contrast with that achieved by fulltime living in SMA and interacting with both the "movers and shakers" as well as the the Mexican neighbors as azheat has indicated. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it would be helpful if one documents the extent and duration of time spent in Mexico and involvement in the local community. That would offer more credibility than personal attacks on those who offer sincere opinions based upon their personal experience.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Brian

"

Brian

Sep 22, 2010, 4:11 AM

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Re: [Brian] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Security Update:

There has always been a problem of communication about public safety issues in the town. Expats have had to rely upon lists such as this for information and have been castigated for spreading rumors. Most recently someone on the Civil list asked about a deployment of police on Hidalgo and never got a straight answer. She received private emails telling her not to scare people who are already on edge. The "citizens security committee" promised to asked Chief Avila but so far there is nothing. Additionally, someone else inquired about police activity in Guadiana. Sadly, it is not a rumor. Three men burst into a woman's home and shot her to death. Duct tape was left behind indicating that the victim may have resisted being kidnapped.

http://correo-gto.com.mx/notas.asp?id=185087

(This post was edited by Brian on Sep 22, 2010, 5:49 AM)

robrt8

Sep 23, 2010, 1:20 PM

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Re: [azheat] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Now I remember you. You posted some worried questions about two years ago. You hadn't driven in Mexico and were worried about what to expect, about street crime in SMA, etc.
Now you're another expert on MexConnect.
Lady, don't divine too much from what a Mexican tells you casually. They're far better at saying what they know you want to hear than you can imagine.
And since you're passing on rumor about real estate agents, let me point out that I know quite a few. It's very difficult to come up with the cash to buy in SMA. Some agents own, some rent, but it has nothing to do with your underbelly.

azheat

Sep 23, 2010, 2:08 PM

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Re: [robrt8] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Don't know what your problem is robrt8 but I never
claimed to be an expert.

I shared my personal experience from two years
of driving back and forth multiple times and living
in San Miguel.

Period.

Find another ax to grind with somebody else.

Rolly

Sep 30, 2010, 5:49 PM

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Re: [robrt8] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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Robrt8, I remember when you were so angry with me that you said you would never post here again.
What changed your mind?

Rolly Pirate

Hound Dog

Sep 30, 2010, 8:17 PM

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Re: [rondobs] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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The "Lakeside" community extending roughly on the shores of Lake Chapala from the Poncitlan Municipality border on the east to the Jocotepec Municipality on the west with an incongruous extention north of the lake and east of Ixtlahuacan for no apparent reason, is also home to a large and naive foreign community with about the same influence as that extant at San Miguel and I would venture that the populations of the communities and the size of the foreign contingents are more or less the same. Many foreigners hereabouts (at the lake) take no real interest in the local Mexican community and reside in their insular cocoons oblivious to events around them but the fact is that crime at Lakeside is extraordinary at present as is the crime at San Miguel. The crap that is occurring at "Lakeside" right now is not to be taken lightly but it appears that many foreigners residing in these places are unaware that this criminal activity is taking place at all. I must say that, in Chiapas, where we also live, there is no question that locals not only know what is going on but will take the law into their own hands when the time comes to do so. Guess where I feel more secure?

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Oct 1, 2010, 6:51 AM)

hapicampr

Oct 4, 2010, 10:00 PM

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Miguel de Allende Safety

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I have not been to mexico for 5/6 years now...but drug cartels or not, I still recall windows with bars, walls with glass shards, roof tops with dogs.
There has always been crime in mexico...It probably started when the indigenous people saw the first conquistadors.
So if one is too attached to any possession, I guess that sets the barometer for their pending loss.

I used to travel with a 120 lbs dog, maybe I felt safer than others, yet I still used to tell Buck this when we entered mexico...If we leave the country walking with nothing but each others company...I'll still be happy.

I've since loss Buck...will I feel safe in mexico??? Yes, because when with him in my travels...I met many people, I learned some spanish (porque con un pero a lado que llame atencion, yo tenia oportunidades de practica) and became a well mannered traveler. I enjoy the people and interact with them. I might still be a target for certain random acts of theft or violence...I guess that is just the tourist tax that I expect some collector to visit upon me.