MexConnect.com Forums: General: General Forum: why not just legalize the stuff???: Page 3

Re: [tagman787] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Assuming this is normal consumer behavior, it basically means that U.S. marijuana legalization (and/or decrimininalization) won't materially affect Mexican gangsters as much as it will Mexican agriculture. It might even be a boon to Mexican gangsters, as more and more Mexican farmers lose their only profitable crop to U.S. industrialized agricultural corporations.

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tagman787

Aug 29, 2010, 6:38 PM

Post #52 of 81 (2182 views)

Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Peter, Colorado has required dispensaries to grow 70% of the product they sell which is intended to prevent large grow operations. We can also grow up to 12 plants each privately. Even local bootleg sellers have reduced buyers. Most product is now about 20% cheaper to buy in the shops and quality is pretty controlled. Clones of the type you like can be bought for home grow. I do see how this will hurt the Mexican farmer and the cartels will still move the chemicals. But at least I'm not the criminal anymore.

Aug 30, 2010, 8:56 PM

Post #53 of 81 (2122 views)

Re: [DavidMcL] why not just legalize the stuff???

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In Reply To

Hola Mensamia;
Thank-you for posting the links.
The other posters are correct about posting links for quoted or cited information. This both keeps the discussions focused and protects us all for issues of copyright.

Appreciated.

David

Hola David,

I agree it is a timely and useful idea. Must have come about while I was away. I left for a while because there were too many attacks and bullying from certain posters. Feels good to actually get supportive responses. Thanks, I appreciate that.

meemza

Sep 8, 2010, 3:54 AM

Post #54 of 81 (2019 views)

Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Oh I soooo agree, Ive been saying the same thing for years!

Sep 10, 2010, 12:58 PM

Post #55 of 81 (1875 views)

Re: [meemza] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I really don't have the time or patience to read all the entries in this thread, so if someone has already said this "I agree" - if not, then: legalizing it only shifts the problem to a much more serious level and populous - primarily us. You have large numbers of criminals involved in this enterprise, many do it simply to support their families and survive. If you legalize it, take away that source of income, guess what happens, they are forced to turn to other areas of income - gringos. Obviously they have no problem committing a crime, so theft, kidnapping and murder will explode, and what more likely targets than gringos. I have no money, so kidnapped no one will pay, a bullet doesn't cost much and move to the next gringo, maybe someone will pay for him or her.
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Sep 10, 2010, 6:31 PM

Post #56 of 81 (1825 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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...legalizing it only shifts the problem to a much more serious level and populous - primarily us. You have large numbers of criminals involved in this enterprise.... If you legalize it, take away that source of income, guess what happens, they are forced to turn to other areas of income - gringos.

Sure, let's give them a legitimate illegal activity to make a living from. As long as you don't do drugs you'll never be victimized, robbed, burglarized, or kidnapped by any drug user that is paying the huge black-market prices to feed a habit that in a regular market or backyard garden would only cost a few pesos.

But hey, that black-market helps fund the local constabulary whose regular salary needs the boost, pays the salaries of the cartel soldiers and officers who would have no other recourse than to kill gringos, not to mention feeding judges, lawyers, and politicians that have to keep the crime clean and safe.

We have got to keep enticing all the potential criminals into the drug game. It's the only way to keep our people, our streets, and our cities safe.

I see your point.

Sep 11, 2010, 6:30 AM

Post #57 of 81 (1777 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Sep 11, 2010, 6:40 AM

Post #58 of 81 (1774 views)

Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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so, in other words, you are suggesting that keeping drugs legal will supply the narco dealers with a living and they will not prey on the gringos. But what about the 28000 people who have been killed? Is that just collateral in your equation? Not as important as gringo lives?

No disrespect intended but you always sound more like a TV journalist conducting and interview rather than someone discussing their own opinions.

Let's hear your editorial.

Sep 11, 2010, 7:52 AM

Post #59 of 81 (1763 views)

Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Last night I was sleepy and couldn't figure out your post, so this morning before, during and after coffee I've gone back and read all your posts on this thread and I'm still not sure your position, although your admission of 45 years I suppose answers some questions.

Let's see if I have this right, you think we should legalize pot, you think alcohol is worse and is already legal - but, what is your solution to take the crime level down? I'm either not seeing it in your posts, or maybe it's so subtle I just don't get it.

The group of criminals in this situation are out of hand and are much like the reasons we remember today, 911. They have destabilized Mexico, compromised the judicial and law enforcement establishments and threaten the entire State of Mexico. Just like Gitmo there are two ways you take these types of people down, you either permanently lock them up or kill them. It begins to appear like the more permanent solution is being employed. Brutal? - sure, but sure is killing 28,000 people including 72 who wouldn't work for them.

So, if you have a solution as to how to eliminate this criminal element, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it because your esoteric opinions about pot vs. alcohol are just that, esoteric, they don't address the real problem or solve anything.
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norteño

Sep 11, 2010, 8:30 AM

Post #60 of 81 (1753 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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For my part, I wonder how anyone is hearing an "Alcohol good, everything else bad" message. I don't think I have ever read of a study on drug abuse in the United States that did not make the point that alcoholism is the most widespread addiction in the U. S., the most costly to society and one of the hardest to conquer.

Sep 11, 2010, 9:19 AM

Post #61 of 81 (1746 views)

Re: [norteño] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Reefhound

Sep 11, 2010, 11:58 AM

Post #62 of 81 (1723 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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True, but the discussion here is on the legalization of drugs and I'm still waiting to hear exactly how that is going to stop the cartels and criminal activity in MX - not to mention NOB. If you take an extreme example and legalize murder, what would be the result, more or less?

But just think... you would have much fewer people in jail for murder. So everything is fine, right? And murderers would be able to confess their acts and get the psychological help they need without the fear of prosecution and incarceration. Who knows? Maybe the thrill of killing would be diminished without the risk of getting caught and sent to prison.

Sep 11, 2010, 2:14 PM

Post #63 of 81 (1707 views)

Re: [Reefhound] why not just legalize the stuff???

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A pretty flippant response to a serious subject, or don't you consider this serious?
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Reefhound

Sep 11, 2010, 2:26 PM

Post #64 of 81 (1705 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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What would be the Spanish word for flippant?

Sep 11, 2010, 2:30 PM

Post #65 of 81 (1703 views)

Re: [Reefhound] why not just legalize the stuff???

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As you are not a resident of a Spanish speaking country, try FLIPPANT! You live in Texas, you understand the connotation and the meaning.
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Sep 11, 2010, 2:50 PM

Post #66 of 81 (1696 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] why not just legalize the stuff???

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if we don't stick to the subject at hand, this thread will be closed by the moderators. So lets all try, okay, Reefhound also.

Does the status quo work? No.

Did prohibition work? No

Are 28000 people dead because of this 'war' on drugs. Yes.

RickS

Sep 11, 2010, 3:27 PM

Post #67 of 81 (1690 views)

Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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If one looks at the length of this thread, what more could one want to say.

Altahabana

Sep 11, 2010, 3:49 PM

Post #68 of 81 (1680 views)

Re: [RickS] why not just legalize the stuff???

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If one looks at the length of this thread, what more could one want to say.

Only this, and someone may have already said it. How will legalization of marijuana in the US stop the cartel violence in Mexico? The cartel wars and the escalating violence were precipitated when the marketing and distribution schemes for Columbian cocaine changed about 10 years ago. Violence was also exacerbated by the development of the crystal meth industry in Mexico. Neither one of those drugs is going to be legalized in the US.

chinagringo

Sep 11, 2010, 3:59 PM

Post #69 of 81 (1674 views)

Re: [Altahabana] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Finally someone with a grasp of reality and clear thinking!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Sep 11, 2010, 4:24 PM

Post #70 of 81 (1670 views)

Re: [Altahabana] why not just legalize the stuff???

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In Reply To

Yes, and there is the problem. It is like saying beer and wine should be legal but not Jack Daniels. I am for the legalization of all drugs. Now drug addicts are criminalized instead of being treated as the sick people they are. Being illegal, drugs retain the allure of the forbidden.

Do you really think that legalization is going to convince non-drug users to mess up their lives? I think the same self destructive portion of society will continue to self-destruct but they will have more of a chance of healing if they do not have to hide their problem. And it would put the criminals out of the illicit drug business and perhaps another 28000 people will not have to die.

The money that the government will make from drugs could be used to educate preteens of the devastation that drugs will do to their bodies and souls. The same education program they use in detoxification centres should be given to all pre-teens instead of waiting for peer pressure to influence them in another way. Why wait for them to try it, why not give them the information to make an informed decision. I am sure the anti-tobacco programs have stopped a lot of teens from beginning that disgusting habit. Anti-drug progams at an early age can do the same thing. Instead of drugs being mystified and alluring, they will be seen as the harmful chemicals they are.

Sep 11, 2010, 4:37 PM

Post #71 of 81 (1666 views)

Re: [RickS] why not just legalize the stuff???

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In Reply To

If one looks at the length of this thread, what more could one want to say.

Before Mensomnia closes the thread on us for not sticking to her interview questions I just wanted to answer Steve.

I was being flippant (ligero, frivolo, poco serio) and applying a little reductio ad absurdum. Many agree with you and give similar reasoning but I'm a little leery of that logic and had to take a stab at it.

The drug trade is a worldwide problem and once the US, or a good number of other countries, take a different approach and decriminalize to some extent then others will likely follow. I'll give some of my reply from the other day to a different but related statement on another thread:

Legalizing pot 40 years ago might have been the answer to today's problem but I don't know that that would be enough today. A couple of the most dangerous drugs are among the most popular today, meth and alcohol come to mind.

It looks like legalization of pot will soon happen. We will find out then if that will be enough but the people are more drug-savvy today and there are a couple others that deserve a chance in legitimate medicine, like Ecstasy for PTSD cases.

I don't favor across the board decriminalization but that may ultimately be in our best interest. I do not think the government should make the ultimate decision what we put into our bodies. Legitimate drug education and a policy of leave them alone if they keep it at home I feel may be the best policy now that Pandora's Box has been opened.

Geez, if I had some really good answers to all this I would come out of retirement lay it on the world, but as it is I just like to stay at home and use a little medical mj a couple times a week to ease my apprehensions to the idea of aging.

I did kind of get into your idea of keeping the criminal element busy with drug operations and making the users pay the price but too often in the past I have seen people become addicted to opiates and resort to burglary, robbery, and assorted other offences and violence to family, friends, and strangers on the street to maintain extremely costly habits that in a real world would actually cost pennies or could be maintained by backyard gardening projects if only they could do that openly.

I firmly believe the consequences of the black market of drugs outweigh the dangers of the drugs themselves. However it seems governments themselves have taken advantage of that market's economics and dynamics to fund and facilitate their international political agendas for a very long time now.

What would potential criminals do without the allure of the illicit profits of the drug trade? Maybe get a real job. Some see their role in the drug trade as freedom fighters against the oppression of prohibitionists. Their savvy of the nature of drugs and of why prohibition exists and the actual motives behind it promotes a lack of respect for the law and its institutions. Drugs are taking us down but it is not their use that is the biggest danger.

Sep 11, 2010, 4:56 PM

Post #72 of 81 (1662 views)

Re: [norteño] why not just legalize the stuff???

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The "alcohol good" part is usually unwritten but in your face just the same. It is available in the stores, on the shelves, at the games, promoted at family-oriented activities (through beer gardens at the fairs in the US or just in stands at the innumerable activities around Mexico, at Six Flags parks, etc.), in night clubs, at restaurants, on billboard signs, cantinas, etc. Shall I go on? I was refused service at an exclusive restaurant and lounge in the Portales of Morelia when I asked the bartender for a Coke - until he found out I was friends with the owner.

Alcohol good unspokenly speaks for itself, you named the downside. I think pot is a safer alternative but you can see I am outnumbered by the strict prohibitionists that insist it should never be legalized along with the innumerable other drugs the categorize it with. The attitude is "I got mine. You want yours, screw you! We don' wan' no mo' stinkin' drogas."

Sep 11, 2010, 5:01 PM

Post #73 of 81 (1661 views)

Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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" Maybe get a real job." Ok, that's it for me, I'm out of here, I don't have the patience, tolerance or time to deal with nativity, stupidity and inanity, you go imagine whatever your 45 years of inhaling makes you feel fuzzy, I'll be sure to recommend you to any drug dealer in Houston that needs an "honest" job - just in case that ever happens in this millennium.
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chinagringo

Sep 11, 2010, 5:02 PM

Post #74 of 81 (1660 views)

Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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When it comes to the pre-teen aspect - take a look at just how well the Abstinence from Sex Programs worked! Just who is trying to fool who here? Hell, the US cannot even get their faulty educational system under control! Secondly, take a hard look at the number of highly educated doctors, who should certainly know better, that have fallen into the clutches of drug addiction.

I have to wonder just how a Canadian feels qualified in attempting to tell the US what they should do? I would have the same question for the US to be attempting to tell either Canada or Mexico just what they should be doing! Each Country is a sovereign nation and they each have to make decisions based upon what works best and in the best interests of their citizens. The inherent problem is that each of the exampled governments have their own failures. Mexico, under the present administration is attempting to do just that but there exists so many systemic ills that it is taking many more resources and a larger commitment than originally envisioned. Sure the tragedy of this entire situation is the 28,000+ loss of lives in Mexico but what is the loss of lives NOB caused by drugs? Maybe not actual "loss of life through death" but one has to include those in prison and those that have little or no value to society.

This problem is so monumental and there are so many drugs involved that one cannot be selective in making one or two legal under the definition of them being soft drugs as the money makers would still be out there and the beat goes on!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Sep 11, 2010, 5:25 PM

Post #75 of 81 (1650 views)