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Bert

Oct 13, 2002, 10:47 PM

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An experience entering Mexico by car - a long story!

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The general situation is this: On April 07, 2002, late in the evening, my wife and I entered Mexico at the International Gateway in Matamoros, Tamaulipas. Generally when entering Mexico I get a permission for 180 days as tourist, which I asked for but was only given 60 days. We took the names of the persons attending us for follow-up. They identified themselves as "Eduardo Rodriguez" and Sr. "Contreras". Eduardo Rodriguez is the person who insisted on limiting my permit to only 60 days. He was intoxicated. Perhaps he was looking for a "mordida" but I'm not a person cooperating in this way, as I rather do everything correctly. As a consequence, the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto issued by Banjercito was also limited to 60 days. Okay! We paid $300 USD cash as a guarantee, as at that moment we had no credit card available. As we were ready to leave, Eduardo Rodriguez, I imagine, in fear of being reported or reprimanded as we had his name, came to me and said he would now give me the 180 days. He changed my document to "180 days - Autorizado Migracion". Great!
Then I went back to Banjercito to have my car permit cancelled and reissued for 180 days, but by error of the personnel attending me, C. Hedros and Maria Antonio Martinez, who said the permit could not be cancelled. We have now verified that this was an error on the part of Banjercito in that the permit is cancelable without cost. Instead they said we had to buy a new permit for $25 USD. As I don't support those kind of activities we left this as it was. It was late at night and we had spent two hours already and it was difficult to contact some one this hour of the night for help. Additionally they erred in not obligating me to sign the rear side of the Temporary Importation Permit.
In Puebla, a few days before our Temporary Importation Permit for our auto was to expire, we contacted Aduana for an extension. This was on May 30th. An appropriate request was thus addressed by them to the Administrador Local de la Aduana, Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez at Puente Matamoros III, Gral.Ignacio Zaragoza, Tamaulipas on June 6th, 2002 from the Administrator lic. Fernando Francisco Toriello Beltran, at Servicio de Aministracion Tributaria, Aduana de Puebla.
In the meantime it is also important to mention that on April 29, 2002, I began my application for a FM-3 visa, File Number: N 682/02, at Migracion here in Puebla. My plan, as soon as I had my FM-3, (Number 1316131, expiring on October 05, 2003), was to renew the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto for a longer period. In the office of Migracion it is stated it takes 35 days to get an FM-3 but instead it took more than 105 days. Migracion said I was covered and there was no problem, having initiated the application for the FM-3. As it was, I had my 180 days as a tourist anyway, and the Temporary Importation Permit for our the auto was extended. Everybody assured us there was no problem to get the $300 USD returned.
Driving and arriving at the Aduana in Matamoros, Tamaulipas on October 02, 2002, at 14.45 hours, approximately 3 days before the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto expired to comply with the requirement of said permit for our auto we were having everything in order. It took a little while for the offices to locate the Temporary Importation Permit extension for our auto. We had to call long distance to Aduana in Puebla a couple of times etc. Then we got the attention of CP. Hector Ramon Rodriguez Maya, who now had the post that previously was held by Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez, and his department, specifically lic. Sandra Gomez, all at the Aduana in Matamoros. Also we got the attention of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, el subdelegado, at Instituto de Migracion to clear up any questions relating to the change made to my Tourist Permit from 60 to 180 days. Specifically the head of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, Sr.
Rogelio Rodulfo Villareal, Delegado local de I.N.M., wrote a letter to clarify any doubts to Aduana as Eduardo Rodriguez had not changed the file copy, which we didn't know anything about. Also here we found out that the person calling himself Eduardo Rodriguez was not Eduardo Rodriguez but a "Madrina" or substitute. This became apparent as Migracion was trying to see what had happened back in April. Copies of this letter was sent to the Administrador Central de Planeacion Aduanera, Mexico D.F. and to the Gerente de Banjercito en H. Matamoros, Tamaulipas.
The people helping us did an outstanding job in trying to help us negotiate with Banjercito for the return of the $300 USD that everyone says we were entitled to. Specifically we were in contact with lic. Ana Maria Velasco, nivel central at Banjercito in Mexico City, but for some reason she was opposed to returning our money and we don't understand why. As a team we cleared up all objections correctly. Everybody involved were shocked and very disappointed that no result came out of this.
After 3 days of trying to resolve this problem, time ran out, we returned the auto, and now have a new Temporary Importation Permit for our auto, good for a year. This has been a very costly and bad experience for us so far.
Now we have filed a complaint in Mexico City in the offices of Secretaria de Contraloria y Desarollo Administrativo and it sounds like this problem will be resolved. We are waiting to see.

Linda

Oct 13, 2002, 11:55 PM

Post #2 of 20 (5001 views)

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An experience entering Mexico by car - a long story!

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: The general situation is this: On April 07, 2002, late in the evening, my wife and I entered Mexico at the International Gateway in Matamoros, Tamaulipas. Generally when entering Mexico I get a permission for 180 days as tourist, which I asked for but was only given 60 days. We took the names of the persons attending us for follow-up. They identified themselves as "Eduardo Rodriguez" and Sr. "Contreras". Eduardo Rodriguez is the person who insisted on limiting my permit to only 60 days. He was intoxicated. Perhaps he was looking for a "mordida" but I'm not a person cooperating in this way, as I rather do everything correctly. As a consequence, the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto issued by Banjercito was also limited to 60 days. Okay! We paid $300 USD cash as a guarantee, as at that moment we had no credit card available. As we were ready to leave, Eduardo Rodriguez, I imagine, in fear of being reported or reprimanded as we had his name, came to me and said he would now give me the 180 days. He changed my document to "180 days - Autorizado Migracion". Great!
: Then I went back to Banjercito to have my car permit cancelled and reissued for 180 days, but by error of the personnel attending me, C. Hedros and Maria Antonio Martinez, who said the permit could not be cancelled. We have now verified that this was an error on the part of Banjercito in that the permit is cancelable without cost. Instead they said we had to buy a new permit for $25 USD. As I don't support those kind of activities we left this as it was. It was late at night and we had spent two hours already and it was difficult to contact some one this hour of the night for help. Additionally they erred in not obligating me to sign the rear side of the Temporary Importation Permit.
: In Puebla, a few days before our Temporary Importation Permit for our auto was to expire, we contacted Aduana for an extension. This was on May 30th. An appropriate request was thus addressed by them to the Administrador Local de la Aduana, Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez at Puente Matamoros III, Gral.Ignacio Zaragoza, Tamaulipas on June 6th, 2002 from the Administrator lic. Fernando Francisco Toriello Beltran, at Servicio de Aministracion Tributaria, Aduana de Puebla.
: In the meantime it is also important to mention that on April 29, 2002, I began my application for a FM-3 visa, File Number: N 682/02, at Migracion here in Puebla. My plan, as soon as I had my FM-3, (Number 1316131, expiring on October 05, 2003), was to renew the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto for a longer period. In the office of Migracion it is stated it takes 35 days to get an FM-3 but instead it took more than 105 days. Migracion said I was covered and there was no problem, having initiated the application for the FM-3. As it was, I had my 180 days as a tourist anyway, and the Temporary Importation Permit for our the auto was extended. Everybody assured us there was no problem to get the $300 USD returned.
: Driving and arriving at the Aduana in Matamoros, Tamaulipas on October 02, 2002, at 14.45 hours, approximately 3 days before the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto expired to comply with the requirement of said permit for our auto we were having everything in order. It took a little while for the offices to locate the Temporary Importation Permit extension for our auto. We had to call long distance to Aduana in Puebla a couple of times etc. Then we got the attention of CP. Hector Ramon Rodriguez Maya, who now had the post that previously was held by Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez, and his department, specifically lic. Sandra Gomez, all at the Aduana in Matamoros. Also we got the attention of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, el subdelegado, at Instituto de Migracion to clear up any questions relating to the change made to my Tourist Permit from 60 to 180 days. Specifically the head of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, Sr.
: Rogelio Rodulfo Villareal, Delegado local de I.N.M., wrote a letter to clarify any doubts to Aduana as Eduardo Rodriguez had not changed the file copy, which we didn't know anything about. Also here we found out that the person calling himself Eduardo Rodriguez was not Eduardo Rodriguez but a "Madrina" or substitute. This became apparent as Migracion was trying to see what had happened back in April. Copies of this letter was sent to the Administrador Central de Planeacion Aduanera, Mexico D.F. and to the Gerente de Banjercito en H. Matamoros, Tamaulipas.
: The people helping us did an outstanding job in trying to help us negotiate with Banjercito for the return of the $300 USD that everyone says we were entitled to. Specifically we were in contact with lic. Ana Maria Velasco, nivel central at Banjercito in Mexico City, but for some reason she was opposed to returning our money and we don't understand why. As a team we cleared up all objections correctly. Everybody involved were shocked and very disappointed that no result came out of this.
: After 3 days of trying to resolve this problem, time ran out, we returned the auto, and now have a new Temporary Importation Permit for our auto, good for a year. This has been a very costly and bad experience for us so far.
: Now we have filed a complaint in Mexico City in the offices of Secretaria de Contraloria y Desarollo Administrativo and it sounds like this problem will be resolved. We are waiting to see.
_____________________________________________________________________Lets see here? you entered Mexico as a guest and solicited your permits, the aduanale would not grant you 180 days without paying a mordida, you dont believe in such things as a mordida so you took it upon yourself to walk around the aduana and question and write down the names of each official??? What big balls you have!! You are lucky to had received anything at all with that attitude!! I agree that the behaviour of the aduanale was wrong, however your behaviour was much worse!! For Ten bucks, Ten minutes of respect, and a smile, you could have avoided all of this agravation! So now your fighting to get your 300 bucks back!! oh well, you get what you pay for!!

keith

Oct 14, 2002, 5:10 AM

Post #3 of 20 (4982 views)

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good for you, Bert, and thank you

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I very much disagree with Linda. Hijole! Her smug and cynical attitude is as big a part of the problem as corrupt officials are. You did exactly the right thing. Corruption won't stop until we stop putting up with it. I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a beer. If you should ever want to visit Urique, please let me know, e-mail me, remind me who you are, and we will put you up for a week for free.

Jim en Cancún

Oct 14, 2002, 7:00 AM

Post #4 of 20 (4983 views)

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To mordida or not to mordida--that is the question

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Judy in KC

Oct 14, 2002, 8:41 AM

Post #5 of 20 (4980 views)

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You left cash?

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I guess I just can't imagine having left cash in the first place.

Esteban

Oct 14, 2002, 8:53 AM

Post #6 of 20 (4980 views)

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You missed something in your report.

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You could have avoided most of your hassles by understanding Mexican law. You didn't have to return to the border to renew your temporary car permit. The permit is good as long as your FM-3 was good.

Bob

Oct 14, 2002, 12:12 PM

Post #7 of 20 (4985 views)

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good for you, Bert, and thank you

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Hi Bert:You sure get my vote on this. Never mind what the
other folks say. Mexico needs the tourist $
and when officials don`t follow the rules they are not doing their country a favor.Bob: I very much disagree with Linda. Hijole! Her smug and cynical attitude is as big a part of the problem as corrupt officials are. You did exactly the right thing. Corruption won't stop until we stop putting up with it. I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a beer. If you should ever want to visit Urique, please let me know, e-mail me, remind me who you are, and we will put you up for a week for free.

Bert

Oct 14, 2002, 12:39 PM

Post #8 of 20 (4978 views)

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You left cash?

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We didn't have a credit card available. This time when we reentered we used a card of coarse. The good thing about a card is that apparently they don't make the guarantee good by charging it, which I didn't know. Therefore I thought at that time it was just as bad to use a card.
: I guess I just can't imagine having left cash in the first place.

Bert

Oct 14, 2002, 12:55 PM

Post #9 of 20 (4983 views)

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We were not only thinking about ourselves........

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: : The general situation is this: On April 07, 2002, late in the evening, my wife and I entered Mexico at the International Gateway in Matamoros, Tamaulipas. Generally when entering Mexico I get a permission for 180 days as tourist, which I asked for but was only given 60 days. We took the names of the persons attending us for follow-up. They identified themselves as "Eduardo Rodriguez" and Sr. "Contreras". Eduardo Rodriguez is the person who insisted on limiting my permit to only 60 days. He was intoxicated. Perhaps he was looking for a "mordida" but I'm not a person cooperating in this way, as I rather do everything correctly. As a consequence, the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto issued by Banjercito was also limited to 60 days. Okay! We paid $300 USD cash as a guarantee, as at that moment we had no credit card available. As we were ready to leave, Eduardo Rodriguez, I imagine, in fear of being reported or reprimanded as we had his name, came to me and said he would now give me the 180 days. He changed my document to "180 days - Autorizado Migracion". Great!
: : Then I went back to Banjercito to have my car permit cancelled and reissued for 180 days, but by error of the personnel attending me, C. Hedros and Maria Antonio Martinez, who said the permit could not be cancelled. We have now verified that this was an error on the part of Banjercito in that the permit is cancelable without cost. Instead they said we had to buy a new permit for $25 USD. As I don't support those kind of activities we left this as it was. It was late at night and we had spent two hours already and it was difficult to contact some one this hour of the night for help. Additionally they erred in not obligating me to sign the rear side of the Temporary Importation Permit.
: : In Puebla, a few days before our Temporary Importation Permit for our auto was to expire, we contacted Aduana for an extension. This was on May 30th. An appropriate request was thus addressed by them to the Administrador Local de la Aduana, Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez at Puente Matamoros III, Gral.Ignacio Zaragoza, Tamaulipas on June 6th, 2002 from the Administrator lic. Fernando Francisco Toriello Beltran, at Servicio de Aministracion Tributaria, Aduana de Puebla.
: : In the meantime it is also important to mention that on April 29, 2002, I began my application for a FM-3 visa, File Number: N 682/02, at Migracion here in Puebla. My plan, as soon as I had my FM-3, (Number 1316131, expiring on October 05, 2003), was to renew the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto for a longer period. In the office of Migracion it is stated it takes 35 days to get an FM-3 but instead it took more than 105 days. Migracion said I was covered and there was no problem, having initiated the application for the FM-3. As it was, I had my 180 days as a tourist anyway, and the Temporary Importation Permit for our the auto was extended. Everybody assured us there was no problem to get the $300 USD returned.
: : Driving and arriving at the Aduana in Matamoros, Tamaulipas on October 02, 2002, at 14.45 hours, approximately 3 days before the Temporary Importation Permit for our auto expired to comply with the requirement of said permit for our auto we were having everything in order. It took a little while for the offices to locate the Temporary Importation Permit extension for our auto. We had to call long distance to Aduana in Puebla a couple of times etc. Then we got the attention of CP. Hector Ramon Rodriguez Maya, who now had the post that previously was held by Contador Jose Maria Gonzalez Gonzalez, and his department, specifically lic. Sandra Gomez, all at the Aduana in Matamoros. Also we got the attention of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, el subdelegado, at Instituto de Migracion to clear up any questions relating to the change made to my Tourist Permit from 60 to 180 days. Specifically the head of lic. J. Alfredo Guillen Villatoro, Sr.
: : Rogelio Rodulfo Villareal, Delegado local de I.N.M., wrote a letter to clarify any doubts to Aduana as Eduardo Rodriguez had not changed the file copy, which we didn't know anything about. Also here we found out that the person calling himself Eduardo Rodriguez was not Eduardo Rodriguez but a "Madrina" or substitute. This became apparent as Migracion was trying to see what had happened back in April. Copies of this letter was sent to the Administrador Central de Planeacion Aduanera, Mexico D.F. and to the Gerente de Banjercito en H. Matamoros, Tamaulipas.
: : The people helping us did an outstanding job in trying to help us negotiate with Banjercito for the return of the $300 USD that everyone says we were entitled to. Specifically we were in contact with lic. Ana Maria Velasco, nivel central at Banjercito in Mexico City, but for some reason she was opposed to returning our money and we don't understand why. As a team we cleared up all objections correctly. Everybody involved were shocked and very disappointed that no result came out of this.
: : After 3 days of trying to resolve this problem, time ran out, we returned the auto, and now have a new Temporary Importation Permit for our auto, good for a year. This has been a very costly and bad experience for us so far.
: : Now we have filed a complaint in Mexico City in the offices of Secretaria de Contraloria y Desarollo Administrativo and it sounds like this problem will be resolved. We are waiting to see.
: _____________________________________________________________________: Lets see here? you entered Mexico as a guest and solicited your permits, the aduanale would not grant you 180 days without paying a mordida, you dont believe in such things as a mordida so you took it upon yourself to walk around the aduana and question and write down the names of each official??? What big balls you have!! You are lucky to had received anything at all with that attitude!! I agree that the behaviour of the aduanale was wrong, however your behaviour was much worse!! For Ten bucks, Ten minutes of respect, and a smile, you could have avoided all of this agravation! So now your fighting to get your 300 bucks back!! oh well, you get what you pay for!! Dear Linda, we were not only thinking about ourselves, we were thinking about all those people entering and not complaining. We are sure that this will help, during years to come, many tourists and Mexicans returning home, especially as many don't possess a credit card. There will be some people fired at the border you know. Our report was well received.

Bert

Oct 14, 2002, 1:06 PM

Post #10 of 20 (4980 views)

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good for you, Bert, and thank you. You are welcome Keith - Bert

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Thanks Keith, that makes me feel better. See my response to Linda. Now the next important question is: Where is Urique located, in case I take you up on this? Have a great day!
Bert
: I very much disagree with Linda. Hijole! Her smug and cynical attitude is as big a part of the problem as corrupt officials are. You did exactly the right thing. Corruption won't stop until we stop putting up with it. I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a beer. If you should ever want to visit Urique, please let me know, e-mail me, remind me who you are, and we will put you up for a week for free.

jack swift

Oct 14, 2002, 1:36 PM

Post #11 of 20 (4980 views)

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An experience entering Mexico by car - a long story!

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i'm not sure whether you abided by mexican laws - but I most certainly appreciate your effort to document what happend on your border crossingToo many of us take the easy "mordida" way - Mexico is trying to get its problems in order, and I'd say government obstinacy is probably at its lowest level ever. The jerk around assignment of how many days to provide a visa is unfortunately still one of the gravytrains for inspectors.I wish I had your guts and time to go through that hassle, but I do believe your obstinacy will filter through to higher levels, and possibly make it easier on the next tourist

brad

Oct 14, 2002, 1:38 PM

Post #12 of 20 (4983 views)

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good for you, Bert, and thank you

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I too say bravo Bert. Those madrinas were supposed to be a thing of the past. All they were there for was to support the con game. When there was a problem they just take off with the blame and the aduana official would get off scot free.

DST

Oct 14, 2002, 4:18 PM

Post #13 of 20 (4975 views)

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good for you, Bert, and thank you- I agree!

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Hey man, you absolutely did the right thing! The steps you took would be normal in the USA as well. If someone is drunk and trying to rip you off, of course you get their name, and of course you try to go over their head if possible. Many people are spooked by authority figures, even incompetent ones- you have been reasonable and you have obviously kept good records. I have personally been in situations where someone was trying to rip me off in the USA (housing and work related.) I stood my ground, found out my rights, and i came out on top. It took awhile but for forty two thousand dollars, it was worth it!!!(and no, I never sued anyone- i just stood up for my legal rights as an employee and a renter in a rent-controlled zone)Keep up the fight and thanks for sharing.
: I very much disagree with Linda. Hijole! Her smug and cynical attitude is as big a part of the problem as corrupt officials are. You did exactly the right thing. Corruption won't stop until we stop putting up with it. I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a beer. If you should ever want to visit Urique, please let me know, e-mail me, remind me who you are, and we will put you up for a week for free.

keith

Oct 14, 2002, 8:00 PM

Post #14 of 20 (4986 views)

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here it is

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Esteban

Oct 15, 2002, 7:20 AM

Post #15 of 20 (4978 views)

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It doesn't matter if you entered as a tourist or not. No Message

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no message here get it :-)

alex

Oct 15, 2002, 7:55 AM

Post #16 of 20 (4982 views)

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neat photo

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I set that photo as my wallpaper, hope thats OK !
Alex

keith

Oct 15, 2002, 12:08 PM

Post #17 of 20 (4978 views)

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sure! and here's another one:

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Liz

Oct 15, 2002, 12:45 PM

Post #18 of 20 (4976 views)

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Thanks for your sacrifice

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Mexico is trying very hard to clean up and will not be able to if no one reports bad behavior. We have not had any trouble and since we are here with children would not be willing to make the sacrifice of standing up to government officials.

brad

Oct 16, 2002, 4:35 AM

Post #19 of 20 (4976 views)

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Thanks for your sacrifice

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Just curious as to why you feel having children here changes the equation?: We have not had any trouble and since we are here with children would not be willing to make the sacrifice of standing up to government officials.

Liz

Oct 19, 2002, 6:37 AM

Post #20 of 20 (4984 views)

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I was a whistleblower once

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I was 17 and turned the bums in at the company I worked for. There was retaliation, but in the investigation a bunch of people with families who were not able to risk their jobs were benefitted. The guy would hire people at one price over teh phone, then once they were there, pay them less. The job market was very tight, this was the early 80s, so people did not say anything. With children I would not risk the possiblity of any jail time or retaliation of any kind. This is not my country and I have few if any rights here. Rule of Law is a joke. I have great hope for the future of teh criminal justice system here long-term, but not short-term.