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chinagringo


Jul 31, 2010, 1:09 PM

Post #26 of 81 (9316 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Even trying to have a sane discussion with you reminds me of discussing religion with a bible thumping zealot! For every zogby poll or your repeating of the leap site is just like having the bible thrown in one's face. Time to get a grip on reality?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



mensamia


Jul 31, 2010, 2:23 PM

Post #27 of 81 (9305 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Taking an opium den and saying that is representative of the country of China is like taking a crack house and saying that represents the U.S. And I am sure all of us have lost loved ones to illegal drugs. There will always be a segment of society that self-destructs and they will always find a way to do that.

One of the points of the legalization is to make the drugs accessible to hard core addicts without them having to commit the necessary crimes to support their habits. Also for quality control so those that have to use drugs will use a pure product and not something watered down with strychnine. Instead of spending all that energy paying for and hiding their addiction perhaps addicts will have the luxury of time to confront and overcome their addiction with more money directed towards treatment centres.


chinagringo


Jul 31, 2010, 2:46 PM

Post #28 of 81 (9299 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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As Mr. Rogers used to say: "It is a beautiful day in the neighborhood". Neighborhood = Land of Make-Believe
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Reefhound


Jul 31, 2010, 2:52 PM

Post #29 of 81 (9298 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Well, that "point of legalization" hasn't been tried in Holland or anywhere else. And it's unlikely that any legalization or decriminalization (which itself is unlikely) is going to be accompanied with state manufacture and distribution of hard drugs.


mensamia


Jul 31, 2010, 3:56 PM

Post #30 of 81 (9280 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] why not just legalize the stuff???

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it certainly won't happen as long as taxpayers are satisfied with the status quo.


Peter


Jul 31, 2010, 8:00 PM

Post #31 of 81 (9243 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I have been smoking pot for some 45 years. I have a pretty good idea about its effects, what effects its use has on people, what benefit they can derive from its use, and what long-term effects it has. I know that around 99% of what is being spewed by the "anti's" is largely BS and propaganda. I also know I have a real attitude problem with anyone that advocates for a loss of my freedoms and liberties for discreetly exercising my choices in that matter.


(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 31, 2010, 8:06 PM)


DavidHF

Aug 1, 2010, 6:38 AM

Post #32 of 81 (9196 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Well, that "point of legalization" hasn't been tried in Holland or anywhere else. And it's unlikely that any legalization or decriminalization (which itself is unlikely) is going to be accompanied with state manufacture and distribution of hard drugs.

We'll see about that soon. The ballot initiative in CA has a good chance of passing in November.


chinagringo


Aug 1, 2010, 8:46 AM

Post #33 of 81 (9173 views)

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Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Quoting Peter:
"I have been smoking pot for some 45 years. I have a pretty good idea about its effects, what effects its use has on people, what benefit they can derive from its use, and what long-term effects it has. I know that around 99% of what is being spewed by the "anti's" is largely BS and propaganda. I also know I have a real attitude problem with anyone that advocates for a loss of my freedoms and liberties for discreetly exercising my choices in that matter. "

Can the same not be said by "level headed individuals" with respect to alcohol? The problem that crops up in any discussion about the legalization of drugs is that we are not discussing just one drug but an entire spectrum that has numerous drugs that cannot qualify under your statement above.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Gringal

Aug 1, 2010, 8:54 AM

Post #34 of 81 (9169 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Level headed people don't do hard drugs, whether they are available at the corner drugstore or from the neighborhood pusher. They know better: ergo, are called "level headed".


chinagringo


Aug 1, 2010, 9:06 AM

Post #35 of 81 (9161 views)

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Re: [Gringal] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I guess that evolves into a discussion of just what constitutes level headed and what percentage can actually meet the definition. How many anecdotal stories have we read or heard about high powered businessmen (doctors, stock brokers, company presidents, lawyers, etc) who have resorted to cocaine, prescription drugs or even meth?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



mensamia


Aug 1, 2010, 9:57 AM

Post #36 of 81 (9148 views)

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Re: [Gringal] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I totally agree, Gringal, whether the drugs come from the pharmacy, the pusher or the liqueur store. Its all drugs, some are legal, others are not.


And drug abuse can be found in any profession, it is a health problem, and not unique to any job description. There will always be a portion of society that is self-destructive.

I think we could also add this statement: A level headed person probably knows what 'level-headed' means. LOL


Gringal

Aug 1, 2010, 10:05 AM

Post #37 of 81 (9143 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] why not just legalize the stuff???

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....and look what a mess those folks created ! Some of those hedge funds were snow powered, and I suspect some of it fell in the halls of congress, in corporate offices and in medical enclaves as well. Obviously, a drug habit requires some serious money in the pocket, but not necessarily good sense in the brain. It probably doesn't make any difference whether drugs are legal or not in terms of those who want to take them. They either have the money or do what they need to, to get it.

As for the legal drugs, the sale of mood altering ones has been keeping a large proportion of the U.S. population "stoned" for years.

About all we do know is that Prohibition did not produce the desired result for its adherents...a sober America. The fact that drugs are illegal has not resulted in a drug free America, either.

It has resulted in a Mexican nightmare.


chinagringo


Aug 1, 2010, 10:29 AM

Post #38 of 81 (9134 views)

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Re: [Gringal] why not just legalize the stuff???

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"It has resulted in a Mexican nightmare."

No argument from this end on that statement! However, a news story from this past week illustrates just how profound the reach of the cartels is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...ot-bus_n_664108.html

And this involves only the activities in three counties of your former home state! Even if one rightly assumes that the $1.7B figure is a "marketing number", the shear quantities are a wake up call. Another article that I read estimated that the damaged or affected area from a one acre plot of pot growing is ten acres. Since these grow operations were all in National Forests, not only the people of CA will feel the damage but the entire population.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



richmx2


Aug 1, 2010, 10:31 AM

Post #39 of 81 (9133 views)

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Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Tallulah Bankhead said something similar about cocaine: "It's not addictive, darling... I've used it for years."

I don't really care what the United States does about legalizing one or another form of self-medication, but I don't expect the effects on Mexico enter into U.S. thinking. Something I read over the weekend, in Aldous Huxley's "Beyond Mexique Bay" -- written during the Great Depression -- about Guatemalan coffee production stood out:

Our afternoon tea and our after-dinner coffee depend on the existence of a huge reserve of sweatable coloured labour. An unpleasant thought. And if the labor is no longer sweated, then tea and coffee at once become luxuries beyond the reach of all by millionaires. In an economically equitable world we shall have to depend for our stimulants on the chemists rather than the farmer.

Of course, our chemical stimulant industry workers (think meth labs) are also exploited labor but labor issues -- along with fair trade and economic parity and asking questions about monoculture ag industry (coca leaches the soil, an has been devastating to Andean agriculture, without good crop rotation) is in the best interest of the farmers growing the crops... are OUR issues, not whatever some user of the crop thinks.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


Peter


Aug 1, 2010, 10:59 AM

Post #40 of 81 (9122 views)

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Re: [Gringal] why not just legalize the stuff???

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About all we do know is that Prohibition did not produce the desired result for its adherents...a sober America. The fact that drugs are illegal has not resulted in a drug free America, either.


Mexico does have more than its share of problems due to the US War on Drugs. US Prohibition of alcohol helped build Tijuana and other border cities. Since Mexico is playing the US game in this round of prohibition those same border cities are being destroyed in the process. They could have remained a safe haven for pot smokers but everything is now way out of proportion some 40-odd years after Nixon started the War on Drugs and Mexico jumped on-board.

From day-one we are conditioned to accept use of recreational drugs as a way of life. The liquor industry says recreational drug use is a good thing so sponsors our favorite pasttimes while promoting its products. There are some popular drugs that are relatively mild when placed alongside alcohol, which gives a legitimate gripe to open some other doors, but honest and truthful information about drugs and their dangers is scant. Alcohol good, everything else bad is not useful information, it is insulting.

In general, people do not tolerate double standards.


mensamia


Aug 21, 2010, 6:17 PM

Post #41 of 81 (8893 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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well... it looks like Calderon is coming to his senses, wonder when the leaders of the other countries will wake up?


Peter


Aug 21, 2010, 11:17 PM

Post #42 of 81 (8846 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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well... it looks like Calderon is coming to his senses, wonder when the leaders of the other countries will wake up?

Have you seen or read something recently that prompts that comment? Do you have a link or reference? Or are you just sayin'...?


mensamia


Aug 22, 2010, 9:01 AM

Post #43 of 81 (8812 views)

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Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I read in bloomberg.com that Calderon is opening a debate on the legalization of marijuana and elsewhere I read other members of his cabinet or other parties are calling for the legalization of all drugs. Do a google search with Calderon and marijuana.

That is a huge step in the right direction. The biggest problem I foresee is the drug cartels, NOB and SOB will do everything they can to keep the stuff illegal.

California also has proposition 19 coming up which is for the legalization of marijuana. There is a 50/50 chance that will pass.


robt65

Aug 22, 2010, 6:15 PM

Post #44 of 81 (8749 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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"I read in bloomberg.com that Calderon is opening a debate on the legalization of marijuana and elsewhere I read other members of his cabinet or other parties are calling for the legalization of all drugs. Do a google search with Calderon and marijuana."

"California also has proposition 19 coming up which is for the legalization of marijuana. There is a 50/50 chance that will pass."

I was under the impression that the rules on this forum were to apply to all persons using the forum. In the case of quoting such sources, I think it is time that you provide links like the rest of us have been asked to do, and have done or we have had our threads possibly removed. If I am not correct about this supposition then I stand corrected.

I for one would appreciate it if you played by the rules. I know that it is extra work and I also used to do it the way you are doing it. I was asked not to post another source without a link. I thought about that for a while and then understood that maybe the Mexconnect forum could possibly get into some kind of unnecessary trouble for posting sources without giving credit for the information. I can now readily agree with that request. If it is a personal opinion, I think it should be so stated especially when it comes to "facts" and "figures"

Robt65


mensamia


Aug 22, 2010, 7:54 PM

Post #45 of 81 (8733 views)

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Re: [robt65] why not just legalize the stuff???

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perdon, was offline for a while, did not realize that had become a rule.

here is the link for Calderon proposing a debate and 3 former presidents agreeing to the concept of legalization of pot.
http://www.google.com/...WWr2xjRYpOgD9HCE3380

here is the link for proposition 19
http://www.rollingstone.com/...92121?RS_show_page=2



mensamia


Aug 22, 2010, 9:50 PM

Post #46 of 81 (8717 views)

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Re: [robt65] why not just legalize the stuff???

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I had to google the other sources and then I remembered where I read it, page 28 of this weeks economist.

here is the link:
http://www.economist.com/node/16791730
http://www.economist.com/.../08/mexicos_drug_war
also map of gang influence
http://web.stratfor.com/...anufacturing_800.jpg


Peter


Aug 22, 2010, 10:04 PM

Post #47 of 81 (8715 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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It is good that world leaders are considering debate. Powerful forces are at work to keep marijuana illegal and profitable. But the subject needs to be confronted. Pot is the number two drug in terms of popularity and is almost beyond argument the mildest and least harmful of all the popular drugs.

With government blessing the liquor industry promotes recreational drug use as a way of life. People are aware of the dangers of alcohol consumption so its advertising is meant to make it appear natural and necessary to enhance life by promoting family-oriented activities and encourage use of its products.

With the conditioning people receive to make recreational drug use appear smart and fashionable a safer alternative choice to alcohol must be permitted.


DavidMcL


Aug 23, 2010, 11:06 AM

Post #48 of 81 (8672 views)

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Re: [mensamia] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Hola Mensamia;
Thank-you for posting the links.
The other posters are correct about posting links for quoted or cited information. This both keeps the discussions focused and protects us all for issues of copyright.

Appreciated.

David
David McL
WebJefe


tagman787

Aug 29, 2010, 4:57 PM

Post #49 of 81 (8550 views)

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Re: [Peter] why not just legalize the stuff???

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Here in Colo I never see Mexican Pot for sale since Med Marijuana came into effect, nor is there a current market for it. We are doing our part.


Peter


Aug 29, 2010, 5:56 PM

Post #50 of 81 (8534 views)

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Re: [tagman787] why not just legalize the stuff???

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California has complained (or bragged) about finding an uunusually high number of pot plantations in the forest areas. It has been Mexican personnel they found attending the crops. With medical marijuana in California people are allowed to grow a certain amount at home but most is being purchased through co-ops that have no sanctioned source for the pot. It has been suggested the cartels have moved some operations NOB to fill the niche.
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