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robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 8:47 AM

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Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Earlier today I responded to a thread to Med Evac . . . . . . which got me to thinking (OH OH) But serously, how many of us actually have a plan for after life in Mexico? Who says were all going to, or for that matter want to be out of Mexico for our final resting place.

What are the costs associated for burial in Mexico? What is the cost of the "family plot?" Is there such a thing as the Family plat or is it just first come first serve in Mexico? What are the cultural norms for burial in Mexico?

I have seen many times here in Mexico when family's actually make a day or at least an afternoon of gathering at the grave site of a family member or friend and actually having (what appears to be) a picnic. Placing flowers, taking photos with family or friends almost like an after wake (if you will). I am not criticizing this, I think it is rather heart warming that friends and or family will make the time to visit and commiserate with the departed member. All of this seems far more loving than what happens (usually) NOB in such circumstances.

Another question begs to be answered. For example if you are retired and a single person, no family to speak of, at least none who are going to pay the bill for shipping the box NOB, what happens to you? How does one prepare for this (without question) final and certainty of loss of life?

Are there insurance plans solely for such an event? What are the costs involved. It appears that unless one is pretty wealthy in Mexico, there is no such thing as a family plot (consisting of 3, 4 or more burial spaces). I have tried to speak to my wife about such an event as I do not wish for this to be a financial burden on her or our other family members. All she wants to do is to NOT speak about it. Don't Mexicans plan for such an event? Is this a cultural thing? Are last wishes by the deceased complied with in Mexico? What if I want (for example) a New Orleans style Jazz Funeral procession from the church to the grave site . . . is that culturally accepted, can I have that?

What about real property left behind? Sure I know about wills and all in Mexico but what if (for example) a retired person has no one? How is a disposition of personal goods carried out? , and who throws the first cup of dirt?

Just wondering.

Robt65

Demonio

Jul 23, 2010, 9:58 AM

Post #2 of 48 (6711 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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You're DEAD - who cares?
.

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

(This post was edited by Demonio on Jul 23, 2010, 9:59 AM)

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 10:08 AM

Post #3 of 48 (6699 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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I care . . . . . . The music still might reach me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robt65

Rolly

Jul 23, 2010, 10:44 AM

Post #4 of 48 (6679 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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I'll try some of your questions as they apply to my part of México.

What are the costs associated for burial in Mexico? Bodies are not usually embalmed, so burial happens very quickly -- typically the next day, so there is usually no funeral home expense. Sometimes there is a church service, other times it's a grave side service.

My friend Doña Martha lost one of her sons last week. She elected not to have a church service. In addition to the grave side service, her fanily, friends and neighbors will assemble in her home for a rosary service on each of the following 9 days.

What is the cost of the "family plot?" Is there such a thing as the Family plat or is it just first come first serve in Mexico?
There is no universal answer to that. In my city, one can buy a family plot for around $300 pesos. In other places bodies are buried one after the other with no family plots. In Lerdo opening and closing a grave costs $300 pesos for a simple one body grave. Special graves designed for the addition of a second body later will cost more.

The grave markers will vary from none to very elaborate. Visit my cemetery to see the variety of markers.

I plan to stay here, so I have already bought my plot. Shipping a body back to the old country is expensive, so cremation before shipping might be a wise plan.

Rolly Pirate

Gringal

Jul 23, 2010, 11:01 AM

Post #5 of 48 (6664 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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In the Lake Chapala Area:
The Lake Chapala Society has a form you can fill out and have it kept on file. This details who should be notified, etc., and what you want done with your body (burial, cremation). You need to make your own arrangements with the funeral home.
As I understand it, the law is that bodies must be disposed of (buried, cremated) within 24 hours.

Remember: September is coming soon. Wills month; with a discount. Don't know if that's all over Mexico, but it is so in Guanajuato and Jalisco. If you don't have a Mexican will and you own anything here, the distribution laws are very different than in the States.

Taxes in Mexico are low.......but death is unavoidable here, too.

I know I won't care........but my heirs will, for sure.

Demonio

Jul 23, 2010, 11:10 AM

Post #6 of 48 (6662 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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In Reply To

I care . . . . . . The music still might reach me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In that case here's The Music you may be hearing.
.

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

(This post was edited by Demonio on Jul 23, 2010, 11:17 AM)

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #7 of 48 (6643 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Thanks for the answers in your part of Mexico Rolly,

This is really educational. Certainly for me I also have no reason to head back NOB after I am gone. I know that none of my Mexican family have a plot anywhere. I would have thought being Catholic family and mostly catholic country that most families would have what we NOB call a "Family Plat". I guess the cultural differences as well as the Catholic differences are throughout Mexico even in death.

Sorry to hear about your friends son. I was totally unaware of the no embalming n Mexico. Hadn't really thought about that either, just took it for granted. I think the nine days after the burial service for a rosary in the home would probably be the same as a novena.

Now in your city you say a family plot is about #300 pesos. Is this only for one body or more? Then you say in some cities that bodies are buried one after the other with no family plots. Does this mean there is a section of ground that is for a singular family, or that simply it is for one body of one family and hen the next for another body of another family? I think you mean the second one (no relation required). "In Lerdo opening and closing a grave costs $300 pesos for a simple one body grave. Special graves designed for the addition of a second body later will cost more" What do you mean Opening and closing a grave? How many times is it opened and closed and what for? Thought you just closed it one time.

When you say special graves for the addition of a second body, I guess that would be more like our NOB family plot, correct? So then you could also buy a plot, for say four or six family members and it would always be reserved for your family, correct? Then it would cost (in your area) $300 times four or six, correct?

Robt65

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 12:23 PM

Post #8 of 48 (6636 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Thanks Demonio,

I started laughing as soon as I read this . . . . . . and then I thought . . . . . . ait a minute! Do I dare open this up? (smiling) That's a good one but not my style. I was thinking more on the Black spiritual line with the umbrellas and the whole mishbooka! (sp)

Now were going to get a whole line of DJ's spinning some requests!!!!! LOL

robt65

wendy devlin

Jul 23, 2010, 12:46 PM

Post #9 of 48 (6626 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Robt65,

You might enjoy a little visit to Las Momias de Guanjuanto, some day.

Thanks to many people dying over the centuries, a lack of cemetary space, plus an interesting mineral calcification process in the area...
AND a number of families being unable to pay for continued cemetary space for their ancestors.

There's an entire, quite unusual Museo, dedicated to our mortal remains:)

richmx2

Jul 23, 2010, 1:09 PM

Post #10 of 48 (6618 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Not that it's going to matter much, but gravesites are usually "rent to own" as they are in European countries -- if no one is paying for upkeep, the remains are eventually exhumed and normally cremated. It sounds somewhat gruesome, but I knew someone who spent a holiday weekend with the family digging up their relations ("gee, grandma... you've lost a lot of weight since I saw you last!") to make room for the future generations of .... er... tenants. The old dead were bundled off into a crypt.

Ernest Hemingway actually wrote a short story ("Mother of the Queen") about Mexican burial practices. The narrator is a (presumably gringo) business manager for a gay Mexican matador in Spain who won't sign the check for his mother' "perpetual care" -- wanting her dug up for very Mexican (but gringo-confusing) reasons. I used to know the location of Joan Vollmer's ashes -- William S. Burroughs' wife whom he shot in 1951 and was initially buried in the Panteon Americano in Mexico City. Burroughs never paid for the upkeep, but that cemetery places cremated remains in the wall, and happens to keep records of their disposition.

Markers are generally the survivors' responsibility. Unless someone wants to build me an Aztec temple, and endow the thing for the next several millenia, I suppose I'll just be one of the anonymous dead at some point... not that I'm in any hurry, mind you.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Rolly

Jul 23, 2010, 1:24 PM

Post #11 of 48 (6606 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Here is a large plot. It belongs to my friend Enrique and me. His first wife is buried under the concrete slap at the far end of the plot. The grave is designed for two bodies. When he dies, he will be buried on top of his wife. i will be buried at the near end of the plot. In between is room for his children if they chose to be buried here.

Opening the grave = digging the hole or removing the cover of an existing grave.
Closing the grave = for a single grave, shoveling in the dirt and removing the excess dirt or replacing the cover of a two tier grave.

A two tier grave has concrete walls to make it easy to add the second body. In the picture below, on the left is the grave of Doña Martha's mother and father. One the right is the grave of her brother that also can accommodate his wife when the time comes.

Rolly

(This post was edited by Rolly on Jul 23, 2010, 1:46 PM)

Rolly

Jul 23, 2010, 1:45 PM

Post #12 of 48 (6599 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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I see that I have been a little unclear about land costs. A single grave plot is $300 pesos. Plots are available in larger sizes for larger prices.

Remember, this is in Lerdo. Prices and policies are going to be different in other places.

Rolly Pirate

Hound Dog

Jul 23, 2010, 2:00 PM

Post #13 of 48 (6591 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Are last wishes by the deceased complied with in Mexico? What if I want (for example) a New Orleans style Jazz Funeral procession from the church to the grave site . . . is that culturally accepted, can I have that?

As our home in Ajijic is on the usual route down Ocampo to the municipal panteon, we get many funeral processions that pass near our house. Processions often consist of locals walking behind the vehicle carrying the coffin and sometimes, depending on the popularity of the deceased, these can be very large crowds. There is often a band playing either upbeat or sorrowful music depending, probably,on the wishes of the family of the deceased or friends and family. Sometimes procession members are in costume and the procession/parade is quite colorful and entertaining.

We seem to have this unintended propensity to live in areas where festive funerals are the norm. Before retiring to the lake, we lived above Chinatown in San Francisco for years and impressive Chinese funeral processions down the main thoroughfare of Broadway which skirts Chinatown complete with the local "funeral" band were commonplace there. If the deceased had been sufficiently important within his/her community or family in this life, the deceased´ enlarged photograph often lead the parade.

Years ago, when we were visiting Hong Kong, we were on an Island day trip when, in the middle of the island town´s main market, we came upon a wake taking place right there for all passers-by to observe and there was the deceased, a middle aged matron, lying in an open coffin in state surrounded by mourners all dressed in white with the town´s citizens crowded about. She was dutifully in possession of her "Hell Money" needed to buy her way out of hell upon her arrival in the underworld. The chinese are very much money oriented even in death.

If you have the money Robert; you can have all the festivities you wish in Mexico if you pay the right people in advance.

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 3:37 PM

Post #14 of 48 (6569 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Hi Wendy,

LAMO . . . . . been there and done that! NO thanks! You're terrible!(smiling) I suppose you would also recommend taking my Wendy mattress with me! LOL

Robt65

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 3:42 PM

Post #15 of 48 (6566 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Thanks RichMX2,

Yeah, I can picture that one now. Friends and family come for a visit and to pay respects and there are two other separate families there doing the same thing! WOW wouldn't that be fun! Let's have a party! This keeps more and more grotesque!

Robt65

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 3:47 PM

Post #16 of 48 (6560 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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OK Rolly,

Thanks. Getting a better picture (pardon the pun) of all of this now. So that whole enclosed concrete curbed square cost approximately how much? And no I am not even going to ask who gets on top! I guess it is first come first served for husband and wife . . . correct?

Thanks again for good information.

Robt65

robt65

Jul 23, 2010, 4:04 PM

Post #17 of 48 (6548 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Thanks Hound Dog,

I do remember San Francisco myself from many years ago. Very splendid affairs these Chinese had. I am happy to know about the music. I will want a Mexican / Irish Wake with a Catholic / New Orelans procession with Mexican, Irish and New Orleans Jazz Music! Your invited if you want. Tullamore Dew 10 Year Blended Irish Whiskey and Baileys Original for all! In fact just had a shot of Baileys over ice myself! Another thing my mother-in-law and wife thank me for . . . introducing them to the finest Irish drink around.

Thanks again,

Robt65

mcm

Jul 23, 2010, 4:28 PM

Post #18 of 48 (6540 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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I live in Merida, Yucatan. Here, cremation is fairly common, at least among those who can afford it.

When my US citizen mother, who was living here with us, died a couple of years ago, the cost for cremation, including picking up the remains, transporting them into Merida (we live just outside the city), and a simple wooden box for the ashes was about 10,000 MXP. Also included was a room for the velada at the funeral home, with coffee & refrescos. The body was (temporarily) placed in a casket, for transport.

As for cemetery plots -- in the public cemeteries, one has use of a burial spot for three years. After that, the remains (bones) are removed (at least this is the case in the comisaria --village -- where I live. Apparently some people do pay a yearly fee to keep the vaults for family use (burials are in above-ground vaults or structures in Yucatan).

Some churches and some private cemeteries also have areas for deposit of ashes.

For the recent death of a local friend, his burial costs were covered by IMSS -- they provided a hearse and casket to carry the body to the local cemetery, and some vases and other decorative stuff for the velada.

Regarding the legal registration of deaths -- here in Yucatan (and I imagine elsewhere), all deaths must be registered with the Registro Civil -- in the case of my mother, her local doctor provided a death certificate form, which I took the Registro Civil. I took the original and a copy of the Mexican death certificate to the US consulate, who provided me with multiple certified copies of a death-of-US Citizen abroad form, for use with insurance companies, or whatever.

morgaine7

Jul 23, 2010, 7:12 PM

Post #19 of 48 (6493 views)

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Re: [mcm] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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In Reply To

in the case of my mother, her local doctor provided a death certificate form, which I took the Registro Civil. I took the original and a copy of the Mexican death certificate to the US consulate, who provided me with multiple certified copies of a death-of-US Citizen abroad form, for use with insurance companies, or whatever.

I'm in La Paz, BCS, and I gather that's how things work here, too. Mexican friends have told me that it's important to have a local GP for the death certificate, though I don't have one yet because I feel silly visiting a doctor just for that. (As in, "Hi, nothing's wrong with me, but I need a doctor in case I die.")

Thanks also for the info about the role of the US consulate. Despite the fact that I've lived outside the US for 30+ years, it wouldn't have occurred to me that they'd need to be informed. I'll pass the info on to my Dearly Beloveds.

Kate

Demonio

Jul 24, 2010, 6:40 AM

Post #20 of 48 (6443 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Here is a large plot. It belongs to my friend Enrique and me. His first wife is buried under the concrete slap at the far end of the plot. The grave is designed for two bodies. When he dies, he will be buried on top of his wife. i will be buried at the near end of the plot. In between is room for his children if they chose to be buried here.

Rolly,

Will you be buried alive, or will they kill you first?

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

(This post was edited by Demonio on Jul 24, 2010, 6:41 AM)

mensamia

Jul 25, 2010, 9:33 AM

Post #21 of 48 (6291 views)

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Re: [robt65] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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Great title and topic. For once I agree with Demonio... you're dead.. who cares? I thought death was supposed to be rather carefree.

The idea of planning a funeral with music etc seems like a feeble attempt to control from above... or below. An attempt of the ego to direct. Does one imagine looking down ... or up, at the throngs reminiscing and saying Gee, so and so chose good music?. Here is one of my feeble attempts :) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiMJ2bC65A

Would your spirit get a rush of pride... or is there a spirit... or is pride an earthly thing?

Wouldn't it be more exciting to go into the paupers plot and maybe supply sustenance to some hungry pack of dogs, rather than feeding only worms?

The egoism of those that pay thousands for the comfort of having their body (which they are no longer residing in) sent back to another part of the planet to feed a nostalgic emotion from their living time... Hmm.

The quick burial times leaves little time to notify... therefore the attendance might be very sparse. Imagine paying for a musical funeral and having 2 or 3 show up... would the funeral directors reimburse... and how would you get your money anyway?

Anyway, I am still hoping that death will be carefree. :)

mensamia

Jul 25, 2010, 9:52 AM

Post #22 of 48 (6285 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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And then, after the 1 or 2 people who actually showed up, or were lost and found the funeral ceremony, had sufficiently purged their grief with KD's dirge, I would have the entertainment committee play this and the funeral ceremony would be over:

http://www.youtube.com/...I&feature=avmsc2

Gringal

Jul 25, 2010, 10:21 AM

Post #23 of 48 (6273 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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There's a great scene in Tom Sawyer where Tom is thinking about how he'd like to see the effect of his funeral on his Aunt Polly. Point being, you don't get to go to that party, or even watch.

Have your great times right now.

mensamia

Jul 25, 2010, 10:33 AM

Post #24 of 48 (6267 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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"Point being, you don't get to go to that party, or even watch."

ahh, such certainty is enviable. :)

robt65

Jul 25, 2010, 10:44 AM

Post #25 of 48 (6258 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Living, Working, Retiring . . . . . . . and Dying? in Mexico

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You know I was going to answer . . . . . . and then I thought . . nah she is just one sick puppy who when she cannot not contribute positively to a thread . . . . she simply subverts. Damn I'm glad I don't have to wake up to that in the morning!

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