MexConnect.com Forums: General: Living, Working, Retiring: This has got to stop

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Peter

Jul 23, 2010, 9:06 PM

Post #51 of 63 (4342 views)

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Re: [ken_in_dfw] This has got to stop - revisited

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There is a dis-ease that afflicts many in the U.S. (and other developed economies). Some folks avoid that dis-ease by turning to cocaine, marijuana, PCP, or xanax. Others run from the dis-ease by moving to México. But the fundamental problem remains. Just as those running north in search of jobs do not solve the issue of a paucity of economic opportunity SOB.

Is it intentional you did not include alcohol? Perhaps because it is legal it is acceptable? Well, that is a large part of the problem. Alcohol is is produced, packaged, distributed, sold, celebrated, sanctioned, revered, promoted, lauded, lavished, partied, praised, prayed over, etc., all to answer to that dis-ease, pamper that dis-ease, please that dis-ease, impower that dis-ease, etc., and personally, I don't like the crap.

The US would not have its current drug problem if it had just permitted the people use cannabis products. Anyone person knowledgeable about those substances can tell you it is a much safer product than alcohol. I don't expect anyone who attempts to outline the problem, leaves alcohol out of the equation, and by way of example places marijuana between cocaine and PCP stands a flatus' chance in a whirlwind of understanding the problem.

California now has de facto legalization of marijuana and many expect Prop 19 to pass and in November's election and provide de jure legalization. I expect it will help, especially when other states follow suit. But now I fear it is too little too late.

If it were truly concern for the health and safety of the people that was most important then alcohol and various other products would not be sold at your corner grocer.

ken_in_dfw

Jul 23, 2010, 9:18 PM

Post #52 of 63 (4338 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop - revisited

Oh, fer friggin' sake, Peter, chill out!

Of course, I understand that weed is way more mellow than most other drugs! Jeez, you're talking to someone who grew up during the 70s! I was carving out bongs and learning how to twist my roach just r-i-g-h-t when most folks were still in Romper Room! I only left booze out because I kind of thought the 800-lb elephant in the room didn't need any more attention. Apparently not.

But you're still missing my point. Whether it's booze or weed or pills, it's all self-medication to treat a gaping wound the size of Alaska in people's hearts. What is creating the hole? That's the question you should be asking.

Peter

Jul 23, 2010, 9:32 PM

Post #53 of 63 (4335 views)

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Re: [ken_in_dfw] This has got to stop - revisited

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There are many pressures in the US that people would like to escape. Sea lo que sea, it is our attitude about drugs, the model alcohol provides, the celebration of that lousy drug that plants in our heads how we are expected to regard recreational drugs, even if they are not the sanctioned variety. If our attitude was not adjusted practically from our conception and throughout our adolescence how to regard and revere drug use then we would not be a drug-dependent nation.

Sorry, to leave mention of alcohol out of the equation just defeats understanding of the problem. It is salesmanship that has programmed us to treat dis-ease. Just taking the ads off TV doesn't do the trick.

(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 23, 2010, 9:40 PM)

Peter

Jul 23, 2010, 11:31 PM

Post #54 of 63 (4321 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop - revisited

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It is alcohol that provides the model and teaches us drug use. It is the ban against marijuana that has taught us how to disregard prohibitive drug laws and laws in general.

Not debateble but fact that marijuana is a very benign drug when compared to any other drug used recreationally, especially alcohol due to it's widely promoted acceptance. This has been known for a long time, many people have near a half-century or more experience with it. If there were significant long-term ill effects there would be evidence of by now but time has revealed the contrary. Yet, marijuana by law has been lumped right along with the worst of them - BTW the worst of them, but fortunately not the hardest to kick, is methamphetamine which until fairly recently had been available over-the-counter.

For political and economic reasons (greed) marijuana has been mis-categorized. And a free people is going to make their own personal choices; we have been taught by that same marketing program that we have personal freedoms and liberty, aside that it has always been strongly hinted to us that we should not try to exercise those liberties. But despite penalties and prohibitions some are just going to do what the feel is right, even take a stand against the powers that be to exercise their freedom.

Adolescence is that age to explore the boundaries of personal liberties and push the limits. Adolescents are going to be the ones to first want to sample the forbidden fruits, and possibly get themselves in trouble. They are the impressionable ones that are jockeying for position, developing their pecking order and mating order. They must struggle for position among their peers and be pressed into finding where and how they will fit in society, where and when to cross lines and take chances and risks.

Some will do everything that is "right", be the football hero or the prom queen, president of the student body or valedictorian, others will have to find their place outside those roles. The majority of young people will begin to experiment with recreational drugs starting with alcohol, and those who have found need to extend their boundaries begin to explore other avenues and will use the illicit drugs. They will become outlaws, perhaps benign outlaws or perhaps a worse kind but outlaws nonetheless. Society has decided where to draw those lines and it is not in a healthy place for society where they have decided to place them and it for political and economic reasons they are where they are today.

Myths have been created and perpetuated for so long for many they are the truths, and there are the truth-seekers and explorers that have found themselves outside the box and refuse to be a sardine - wherever that leads them from there.

(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 24, 2010, 1:08 AM)

richmx2

Jul 24, 2010, 12:05 AM

Post #55 of 63 (4318 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop - revisited

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There are many pressures in the US that people would like to escape.

Oh come off it! You're not talking about some kid sniffing paint thinner to stave off hunger pangs on the streets of Bogatá or Mexico City or Tegucigalpa, you're talking about the four percent of the human race that consumes 25 percent of the world's narcotics, and half it's oil and an inordinate share of everything else. Whether California or the United States as a whole "legalizes" marijuana is a minor issue. The United States will still be seeking, by violence and repression, to take control of the resources of others -- minerals, oil, electrical power, water... you name it.

The whole problem with the rich countries, especially the United States, is this assumption that they should control the planet and solve "our" problems. No, they shouldn't. The should have our problems.

You want to stop drug abuse... fine. Live on your own resources like the rest of the human race -- "the pressures in the U.S. that people would like to escape" will be the same pressures all of us would like to escape, but somehow live with... without resorting to bogus self-justifications for pillaging other peoples and sowing violence around the planet.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Peter

Jul 24, 2010, 1:24 AM

Post #56 of 63 (4314 views)

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Re: [richmx2] This has got to stop - revisited

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Next time you want to reply to my post I ask you have the courtesy to read it and try to understand it. The thrust is that Americans, and probably other people as well, are conditioned from early on to be drug users by those who market alcohol. Americans may tend to pamper themselves more than many other nationalities, and they are conditioned to self-medicate for dis-ease by alcohol promotions.

Is that any clearer?

Peter

Jul 24, 2010, 2:49 AM

Post #57 of 63 (4303 views)

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Re: [richmx2] This has got to stop - revisited

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"the pressures in the U.S. that people would like to escape" will be the same pressures all of us would like to escape, but somehow live with... without resorting to bogus self-justifications for pillaging other peoples and sowing violence around the planet.

I understand what you are saying is that the suggestion that anyone is the US that could conceive of themselves as feeling life's pressures, no matter how petty I might agree they could be, is so ludicrous at its inception that you are compelled to go off on a tirade about the misdeeds of the US and how they throw their weight around the world, over-consume, and do a lot of other things I probably would not disagree with you about. And the idea that anyone in the US could entertain the notion that their life is anything other than just so hunky-dory strikes you as containing such blatant arrogance it casts you into such a rage so as to consider any statement that may follow in the post is so utterly irrelevant that it is pointless to read any further and immediately begin ranting and making an emphatic suggestion that its author take some undecipherable course of action in accordance with others of his species.

To answer the question your reply brings up is that I doubt the US actually resorts to bogus self-justification, other than as a public face, but wil rape, pillage, plunder, commit other like atrocities, and otherwise sow violence, hate, and discontent merely because they can.

But I would like to ask if the thought of such goings on has stressed your psyche to such an extent that you too have taken to self-medicate perhaps to the extent of temporary impairment of facility?

(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 24, 2010, 2:55 AM)

robt65

Jul 24, 2010, 6:24 AM

Post #58 of 63 (4289 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] This has got to stop - revisited

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Morning Hound Dog,

I would like to further you view point if I may Hound Dog. I believe that you are very correct in that a good percentage of weapons of ALL kinds come from other countries and some of them (i.e. China) from afar. I would venture to GUESS far more than the 10% or so you stated.

If you want to see a real waste of your tax payer dollar, just drive a loaded trailer across the border into Mexico and see who it is that really does an inspection. Sure I get stopped before crossing the border with my trailer loaded so you can't walk inside it and have been politely asked by the American side . . . "drives licence please, passport please, where are you going, why, coming from where. Are you carrying any AR-15's in there? No weapons? Ok, be careful. And that is the sum total of an INSPECTION? I think NOT. At least not what it should be. Sure I hate waiting in lines at either side when I am not the bad guy, but let's face it, that is hardly an inspection. Can you imagine if I was a bad guy? Now Mexico o the other hand does a fair inspection. I hate what I consider a waste of time, but only because I am sometimes selfish and they should know, I am not the bad guy! Oh Sure, picture that! They should know!

The waste of tax dollars on such frivolous inspections is a sham. If you are going to inspect then do it thoroughly and correct. "Hello sir (all of the questions above and then, please exit your car sir. Leave the keys and please open your trailer for inspection. THEN ACTUALLY GO INSIDE AND INSPECT! You bet it would be an inconvenience, but then again it would be an inspection.

Why not have such an inspection in "no mans land" by a representative from both countries, then past a sticker on the window, for the traveler to proceed to the Mexican side and go through the other formalities such as immigration, car permits, and customs charge (without having to be re inspected again), pay the duty if applicable and move on. Have a section or area (on the Mexican side), for a double inspection if the code on the window sticker by the combined inspection in no mans land suggested it. Then have a real thorough inspection.

I think that would be far more thorough and would catch more bad guys actually moving these weapons into México, or am I just being real nieve? At least one would see their tax dollars at real work.

robt65

(This post was edited by robt65 on Jul 24, 2010, 6:25 AM)

MikeKG

Jul 24, 2010, 10:05 AM

Post #59 of 63 (4259 views)

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Re: [robt65] This has got to stop - revisited

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I personally do not think it is in the best interest of the US to stop this carnage and I believe they are behind a lot of it. It keeps Mexico down and the majority of the soon to retire money looking to stay home rather than having the good life at a much cheaper rate in Mexico. They want your money all of it.

arbon

Jul 24, 2010, 11:50 AM

Post #60 of 63 (4238 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop - revisited

"Peter, It is alcohol that provides the model and teaches us drug use."

And many others in the developed World think it is the prescription drugs, from birth.

(or rather the over prescription of)

Memo

Jul 24, 2010, 1:03 PM

Post #61 of 63 (4214 views)

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Re: [MikeKG] This has got to stop - revisited

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"I personally do not think it is in the best interest of the US to stop this carnage and I believe they are behind a lot of it. It keeps Mexico down and the majority of the soon to retire money looking to stay home rather than having the good life at a much cheaper rate in Mexico. They want your money all of it."

Thats an interesting theory. I hadnt considered that. A longshot, but interesting none the less. However, wouldnt these aged Americans moving to Mexico also take a huge burden off the US healthcare system? That is, if they choose or had to be treated while in Mexico.

Generally though you may be right. Why would the situation be advantageous to the US?

1. demand for drugs continues to be met (a major part of the economy)

2. the violence/situation in Mexico shifts focus/blame away from the US
and onto Mexico

3. It becomes more of a "Mexican problem".

4. Lawless/open border allows for needed cheap labour to flow in.

5. America's military industrial complex benefits from the need for more
security, weapons, military hardware, etc.

6. Mexican government remains weak/subservient and more dependent on US expertise.

7. Increases the possibility of American operatives/boots on the ground in
Mexico (a la Colombia)

8.??? etc etc etc.

Come to think of it what WOULD BE the advantages of stopping it? As long as the violence does not spill over into the US and threaten the governments power in a major way....

Its the old divide and conquer again.

(This post was edited by Memo on Jul 24, 2010, 1:16 PM)

richmx2

Jul 24, 2010, 1:07 PM

Post #62 of 63 (4209 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop - revisited

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People may not feel their lives are "hunky-dory", but anyone who has ever talked to someone in recovery, known someone in recovery, worked with people in recovery, or been in recovery, knows that addicts will always find a rationale for their addiction. IF, as you say, the "pressures" are the rationale, then I suggest removing the "pressures". That, or get out of denial.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

tonyburton / Moderator

Jul 24, 2010, 1:56 PM

Post #63 of 63 (4189 views)

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Re: [richmx2] This has got to stop - revisited

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This HAS got to stop, so I"m locking the thread to ensure that it does. Should you wish to start another thread, please keep the discussion firmly on Mexico. Thank you!

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