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yTABDGdW

Jul 16, 2010, 4:52 PM

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Southern Mexico

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Anything north of Oaxaca is NOT Southern Mexico! Thank you.



joaquinx


Jul 16, 2010, 4:53 PM

Post #2 of 18 (14271 views)

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Re: [Memo] Southern Mexico

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Anything north of Oaxaca is NOT Southern Mexico! Thank you.

South Texas?
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


tashby


Jul 16, 2010, 5:36 PM

Post #3 of 18 (14253 views)

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Re: [Memo] Southern Mexico

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This is an old complaint about how the forums on MexConnect are divided up and named. Short of redrawing the map of Mexico, trying to keep the number of geographic-specific forums to a manageable number ain't easy. Look at that map.

If they simply re-named this forum "Southern Mexico and the Yucatan" everybody would shut up about it.

Don't you think?


yTABDGdW

Jul 17, 2010, 7:02 AM

Post #4 of 18 (14177 views)

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Re: [tashby] Southern Mexico

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No Im not referring to the naming of the forums. I understand it would be difficult to split them up. I dont find how theyve done it unreasonable. Im talking more about posters/people who say they went to Southern Mexico and visited Puebla or are driving up to the States from "Southern Mexico" when their starting point is Puerta Vallarta or some shit like that.

Just a pet peeve so ignore me. It does, however, show a rather myopic and egocentric view because when you claim Puebla or some such place is Southern Mexico you are doing so because of its relation to the United States border NOT because of its relation to the rest of the country you are actually in! Nuff said.


tashby


Jul 17, 2010, 8:13 AM

Post #5 of 18 (14160 views)

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Re: [Memo] Southern Mexico

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Ahhhh, got it. As a small-time geography/map nerd myself, now I'm sure it will bother me too whenever I see it. Great.


chinagringo


Jul 17, 2010, 8:22 AM

Post #6 of 18 (14153 views)

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Re: [Memo] Southern Mexico

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Memo:

Try the same analogy with the US. Where does one draw the line for north vs south? People from everywhere tend to be "geographically challenged" - give them an unlabeled map of Mexico or the US and maybe 10% could actually label the States correctly.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Peter


Jul 17, 2010, 9:58 AM

Post #7 of 18 (14128 views)

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Re: [tashby] Southern Mexico

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If they simply re-named this forum "Southern Mexico and the Yucatan" everybody would shut up about it.

Don't you think?

Well... That would be an improvement but would not entirely satisfy Memo or myself. If I drive out to the coast and turn left for Zihuatanejo and Ixtapa Mexconnect says I am in Southern Mexico. However, if I continue straight or turn right to end up in Lázaro Cárdenas and Playa Azul then I'm... Well, it's not Southern Mexico, nor the Central Highlands anymore. It is just kind of a place no one talks much about except me.


chinagringo


Jul 17, 2010, 10:04 AM

Post #8 of 18 (14125 views)

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Re: [Peter] Southern Mexico

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The most glaring example of a section of Mexico without definition on this forum is North Central/Northeast. Here you have Rolly located in this area, it is a primary route for NOB travel and there is no designation what-so-ever.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



YucaLandia


Jul 17, 2010, 10:05 AM

Post #9 of 18 (14128 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Southern Mexico

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"Try the same analogy with the US. Where does one draw the line for north vs south?"

Many folks still use the Mason Dixon line, along with breaks in linguistic lines (i.e. the "greasy-greazy" line). If you're a born & bred local, and you think of your local diner is a greazy spoon, then you're in the South.

I raise this point, because my crude ear finds the Spanish drawl(s) spoken by "Southerners" in Mexico is much easier to understand that the machine gun Spanish of Distrito Federal and the north. By a crude measure of language, Yucatan may be geographically north of much of Mexico, but our gentle drawls and slow-but-accurate speech seems to make us Southerners.
(Yucatecans do pronounce S's and Z's the same way, but we don't drop letters like other Spanish speakers?)

Has anybody else out there recognized a rough geographical dividing line between Northern and Southern Mexican Spanish speech?
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


yTABDGdW

Jul 17, 2010, 10:12 AM

Post #10 of 18 (14121 views)

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Re: [Peter] Southern Mexico

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Its kind of an interesting discussion because for me the line where "south" is drawn can be subjective. It can be a geographical designation or a somewhat cultural designation I suppose. For example, for me Veracruz feels like Southern Mexico. It is such a long state that it is in fact south considering it does border Tabasco. However, I would still personally consider Xalapa southern. I would even consider Acapulco southern but not Mexico City. Puebla is not south for me, its central. I guess part of the problem is also the shape of Mexico. How about Cancun? Is it south? It is for me culturally speaking, but not in terms of latitude. Blah blah blah. Interesting though.


Vichil

Jul 17, 2010, 11:43 AM

Post #11 of 18 (14099 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Southern Mexico

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I think of the "Maya Empire" being part of Southern Mexico even if Merida is north of Guadalajara. Culturally the area has more in common with Belize, Chiapas, Honduras etc than Guadalajara.


Hound Dog

Jul 17, 2010, 12:03 PM

Post #12 of 18 (14095 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Southern Mexico

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It must have been a year ago that I ribbed Mexconnect management about Mérida being north of Guadalajara making the northern Yucatan Peninsula more appropriate for a designation as Mexico´s Middle East but that was all in fun. Some of you guys are taking this entirely too serious but I enjoyed YucaLandia´s and Memo´s responses just above.

Now, as one who lives in San Cristóbal de Las Casas much of the year, a part of Mexico no one could doubt is in the deep southern, part of the country and one who often visits other southern states from the Caribbean to Gulf to the Pacific, I must agree that, while, the states of Campeche, Yucatan and part of Quintana Roo are not geographically in southern Mexico, they are, for the most part, very much culturally a part of southern Mexico. It is tough enough for management to attract participation in the Southern Mexico Forum without their breaking down the posts in a more precise geographical fashion and creating specific forums which would attract no posts so I support the present configuration except that I find in disturbing that Michoacan State, which is clearly a mid-Pacific state, is designated a part of the Central Highlands if you get my drift.

As a deep southern boy whether in Mexico´s Jovel Valley or Alabama´s Gulf Coast where I was born and raised, I am totally offended that yankees among us attempt to define the "south" and some midwestern interlopers from such hillbilly precincts as Tennessee, Kentucky and Arkansas to say nothing of westerners from Texas pretend to be southerners when anyone with half a brain knows that the south consists of that precious territory that ends on the north on a line as defined by the state lines of South Carolina through Mississippi and on the west by the Texas-Louisiana border.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jul 17, 2010, 12:06 PM)


tonyburton


Jul 17, 2010, 4:04 PM

Post #13 of 18 (14066 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Southern Mexico

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"Has anybody else out there recognized a rough geographical dividing line between Northern and Southern Mexican Spanish speech?"

Various attempts have been made from way back by distinguished Spanish language experts - one version is adapted as Figure 13.1 in Geo-Mexico: the geography and dynamics of modern Mexico. Maybe we'll make that figure the subject of a blog post at http://geo-mexico.com some time before too long. (Thanks for the idea!)

Tony


YucaLandia


Jul 20, 2010, 2:02 PM

Post #14 of 18 (13919 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Southern Mexico

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Dawg, Dawg, Dawg,

" I am totally offended that yankees among us attempt to define the "south" and some midwestern interlopers from such hillbilly precincts as Tennessee, Kentucky and Arkansas. . ."

Next you'll be saying that Marylanders and Virginians aren't Southerners, even though we were southerners for 150 years before anybody even dreamed of the fine state of Alabama. (My kith and kin have hailed from those hallowed grounds for the past 350 years.)

Having said that, I agree whole heartedly with your other points. It is no great revelation that the peoples of the Yucatan peninsula are more closely related to our Central American brethren and neighbors, in language, culture, cuisine, and clima, (along with some Caribbean/Cuban influences), though our large population of arabes (Syrians & Lebanese) makes your Middle East distinction hit pretty close to home.

Are hamacas a standard feature of almost all homes in your neck of the woods?

and thanks to the moderators for allowing things to go a little off-track.

Thanks for a dandy laugh!
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 20, 2010, 2:04 PM)


Hound Dog

Jul 20, 2010, 4:54 PM

Post #15 of 18 (13889 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Southern Mexico

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Are hamacas a standard feature of almost all homes in your neck of the woods?

Not in our neck of the woods, Steve. That would be up the mountain in the Jovel Valley where the weather is generally pretty bracing at 7,000 feet and even more bracing in the surrounding hills which can reach inhabited heights of perhaps 11,000 to 12,000 feet. The indigenous in the highland villages surrounding San Cristóbal sleep on planks sometimes using coffee bags as mattresses and blankets to keep warm. The hot Chiapas Pacific Coast and the low lying jungles around Palenque is another matter and hammocks would be more popular for sleeping - especially on the coast in the tierra caliente. It´s nothing like your neck of the woods in the Yucatan, however, where sleeping on hammocks is widespread. Our favorite hammock of all time is one we bought in a hammock store behind the Mérida market. The store makes its own hammocks which are famous at least locally. There is no comparison we have seen between the Yucatan style hammocks and lesser designs we see in the part of the Chiapas Highlands where we live.

OK, you seem like an amiable fellow so I have decided Maryland and Virginia (Vuhginia) can be a part of Dixie - especially since the old Confederate capital was stolen from Dawg´s home town of Montgomery and moved to Richmond. Of course, you may note that the Dawg does not live in the old Confederacy having preferred San Francisco while still living in the states and, now, Mexico over any of those places.

We´ll be heading for the Yucatan this winter for some of that Yucatecan food we love but you sometimes disdain. We´ll buy you a cup of coffee when we get there.


yTABDGdW

Jul 20, 2010, 7:21 PM

Post #16 of 18 (13862 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Southern Mexico

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Im not sure if you are aware of this, but the best hammocks I ever saw in Mexico were made by prisoners. Check it out if anyone is really interested in a quality hammock.


YucaLandia


Jul 21, 2010, 11:03 AM

Post #17 of 18 (13810 views)

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Re: [Memo] Southern Mexico

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Memo,
Though prices on some of the more exotic weaves reach $100 USD now, the boys at Ebtun (pentitentiary) make fine fine hamacas. Unlike US prisons, Mexican prisoners and their families here are expected to financially support the guys behind the iron bars, so, buying a hamaca really makes a difference in their lives.

Ebtun is about a 20-30 minute drive west of Valladolid (on the libre highway). There are also 2 very nice cenotes w/grutas along the way at Dzitnup.
steve
-
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


yTABDGdW

Jul 21, 2010, 12:24 PM

Post #18 of 18 (13797 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Southern Mexico

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Thanks for that Yuca. I will buy some when I am in the area. They are of fine quality no doubt.
 
 
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