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Sunnyvmx


Jul 14, 2010, 5:28 AM

Post #1 of 26 (5993 views)

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Lessons of Mexico

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Quite often I'm asked (as I'm sure you are too), "Why do you love living in Mexico?" Rather than state the usual mundane answers, I tried something new. I said, "There are no rules." Then as I was asked to clarify, I replied, "If I choose to keep a horse in my yard, I can, but I must also accept that my neighbor may want a pig." At times I have tried, "If I'm walking in town on an uneven sidewalk with my head down and whack my head on a storefront awning, the shop owner is most likely to ask me why I didn't see the awning, it was right there in front of me."

How do you answer without repeating the obvious?



http://dementias-daughter.com. Now over 25,000 hits.



gpkgto

Jul 14, 2010, 8:17 AM

Post #2 of 26 (5928 views)

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Re: [Sunny1] Lessons of Mexico

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I love Mexico and am here to stay, but...

There are rules in Mexico (and laws), they are just not enforced--or worse, they are very selectively enforced. Mexican states/cities/towns have all kinds of laws and ordinances very similar to many US places, but they are ignored by the people and the officials alike. There are good and bad sides to this--and you are correct--I think I now prefer the "freedom" of Mexico and could probably never again adjust to the regulated lifestyle up north.


robt65

Jul 14, 2010, 8:40 AM

Post #3 of 26 (5917 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Lessons of Mexico

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Good Morning gpkgtto,

Of course don't you know that all such laws, ordinances, etc., are definitely enforced NOB as well! And . . . . certainly not "ignored by people and officials alike". (tongue in cheek remark)

Such total and complete freedom can many times lead to anarchy as I think is starting to show itself now in Mexico and other countries around the world. complete and total freedom from regulations goes against the human nature in all of us .. . . . we all want it our way ... after all we are all humans . . .aren't we?
(Again, a tongue in cheek remark) but with an element of truth to the subject at hand.

Robt65


Peter


Jul 14, 2010, 9:20 AM

Post #4 of 26 (5881 views)

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Re: [robt65] Lessons of Mexico

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There are laws that exist that are only enforced when there are complaints or the problem becomes a nuisance. NOB it seems there are so many whiners and complainers that the people are bombarded by ordinances and regulations coming at them from all sides and seemingly out of nowhere. The police promise they can "find something" in order to detain you or make your life unbearable. I found that to be true and it is not the manner in which I care to live. I like the relative freedom of living here in Mexico and do not wish to return to the highly regimented existence NOB.


(This post was edited by Peter on Jul 14, 2010, 10:40 AM)


tashby


Jul 14, 2010, 9:33 AM

Post #5 of 26 (5869 views)

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Re: [Sunny1] Lessons of Mexico

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Great idea for a thread.


Quote
Quite often I'm asked (as I'm sure you are too), "Why do you love living in Mexico?" Rather than state the usual mundane answers, I tried something new. .......How do you answer without repeating the obvious?


Mexico still has a soul.


(This post was edited by tashby on Jul 14, 2010, 9:34 AM)


Gringal

Jul 14, 2010, 9:36 AM

Post #6 of 26 (5862 views)

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Re: [robt65] Lessons of Mexico

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Enjoyed the tongue planted cheekwise comments.

Added to that: If you want to hear yelps of pain from a expat, listen up when they've bought a house which turns out to have many problems not revealed by either the seller or the real estate agent. Disclosure? What disclosure? Recourse? LOL. The hillside collapsed and the casa in in two sections? Stick it together and sell it to the next fella. Who needs to know?

More yelps when the metal worker neighbor, in his glorious freedom, starts using his roof as an spray painting area.
Toxic cloud in your terrazza? So shut the windows. That cute casa in the village was zoned commercial.

Still more yelps when a minor accident results in a car-confiscation drama with high storage fees.

In many ways, Mexico is like the Wild West before the sheriff came to town.

I love Mexico for any number of reasons. Maybe "soul" says it best. Just recently, a friend's car broke down in the middle of nowhere and people who had little, stopped to help her find a repair place, towed her into a tiny town, found her a place to stay overnight, and didn't expect the payment she offered as she left. This is Mexico at its best, and there's a lot of it. I like to look at the half-full glass in all things.


(This post was edited by Gringal on Jul 14, 2010, 9:44 AM)


robt65

Jul 14, 2010, 9:46 AM

Post #7 of 26 (5850 views)

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Re: [Peter] Lessons of Mexico

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Hi Peter,

I totally agree! You wont get an argument from me on that for sure. I was making purely tongue in cheek remarks that I hoped would stimulate this conversation and keep it rolling, as it is a good thread. I enjoy thought provoking. Like to see all things from two or more sides.

Robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on Jul 14, 2010, 9:49 AM)


robt65

Jul 14, 2010, 9:54 AM

Post #8 of 26 (5838 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Lessons of Mexico

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"In many ways, Mexico is like the Wild West before the sheriff came to town."

"I love Mexico for any number of reasons. Maybe "soul" says it best. Just recently, a friend's car broke down in the middle of nowhere and people who had little, stopped to help her find a repair place, towed her into a tiny town, found her a place to stay overnight, and didn't expect the payment she offered as she left. This is Mexico at its best, and there's a lot of it. I like to look at the half-full glass in all things."


Hi Gringal,

So true! both of these are Mexican truths as are the previous ones to these! I guess . . . it comes down to "ya can't have it all"! (smiling)

Robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on Jul 14, 2010, 9:55 AM)


La Isla


Jul 14, 2010, 9:57 AM

Post #9 of 26 (5831 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Lessons of Mexico

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What some of you are praising as the freedom that you feel living in Mexico gives you, a freedom resulting from a lax enforcement of rules and laws, often strikes me a serious disregard for the freedoms and rights of others. It seems to go against the famous dictum of Benito Juárez, "El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz" [Peace is the respect for the rights of others.]


Gringal

Jul 14, 2010, 10:25 AM

Post #10 of 26 (5813 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Lessons of Mexico

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I hope you didn't misunderstand the spirit of my comments re the "way things are". It was also said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

I'm not approving, just pointing out the things people find most distressing about the lack of law, failure to follow existing laws, or selfish disregard for others when deceptive or inconsiderate actions are taken. Many NOB expats somehow expect Mexico to protect them from unscrupulous people, as the often called "nanny state" did back 'home". They arrive with rose-colored glasses and it takes them a while to decide whether it's worth it......or not.
Often, they stay awhile and go home again.

I was one of the victims of the non-disclosure practices and it cost dearly. A local person has the iron worker next door and is tearing hair out. The parted house case actually happened. All of these events resulted from downright crooked practices, selfish people who care nothing for the results of their actions, and are the other side of the "freedom" coin.

Freedom is a fine abstract concept......but hopefully, people remember that the freedom to stretch out your arm ends at the other person's body.


chinagringo


Jul 14, 2010, 11:11 AM

Post #11 of 26 (5785 views)

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Re: [Sunny1] Lessons of Mexico

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Admittedly, my personal "lesson of Mexico" took me many visits to figure out and then adapt.

While I am not sure when the switch was installed but it has now become automatic when I cross the border into Mexico, I immediately go into a much calmer state and it takes a great deal more to trigger my stress reflex. In fact it becomes almost impossible to anger or otherwise stress me out. Everything, including driving, becomes a learning experience and what may have frustrated me in the past now becomes a source for humor. All I know is that it is a great feeling and I look forward to every trip for this relief!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



La Isla


Jul 14, 2010, 5:01 PM

Post #12 of 26 (5682 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Lessons of Mexico

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Gringal, I like your reminder of just how far freedom can stretch before it collides with someone else's freedom. If you ignore the freedom of others, then in the end your own can be compromised.


cookj5

Jul 14, 2010, 7:40 PM

Post #13 of 26 (5639 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Lessons of Mexico

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Freedom does work best when it functions on a "live and let live" basis, which seems to be a good part of what we all love about Mexico. The sort of "freedom" found in the so-called Wild West was not free at all, it had a definite cost. Settlers were terrified by attacks by Native Americans infuriated by the Anglo invasion, and also by roving bands of heavily armed desperados robbing and killing at will. Damned dangerous place to live. That's why those "free and independent" settlers immediately started screaming for the army to come in and suppress (read: massacre) the Indians, and passed laws against carrying guns within the city limits (that was the pretext of Wyatt Earp's shoot-out at the OK Corral). The first thing "freedom-loving" people do is pass laws to control other people's behavior. Be careful what you wish for, either way.


Peter


Jul 14, 2010, 8:05 PM

Post #14 of 26 (5622 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Lessons of Mexico

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In Reply To
What some of you are praising as the freedom that you feel living in Mexico gives you, a freedom resulting from a lax enforcement of rules and laws, often strikes me a serious disregard for the freedoms and rights of others. It seems to go against the famous dictum of Benito Juárez, "El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz" [Peace is the respect for the rights of others.]


Gawd!! Why don't we just line everybody up and start them goose-stepping then? I don't think we're talking about trampling all over each other's peace and calm and imposing ourselves into the middle of everything to create a lot of ruckus.

There is a certain amount of tolerance that needs to be practiced by everyone, which it usually is. Likewise we have to be respectful of everyone else's tranquility and privacy, which is normally the case here.

Of course if you feel the only way we can respect each other's rights and freedoms is to have a million petty laws and 20 million cops to perform neighborhood colonoscopies then the US is YOUR kind of place. I'm happy with Mexico and its occasional annoyances.

Since when is a serious disregard for freedoms and rights of others corrected by having strict enforcement of rules and laws? Is that the reality of living in Mexico City, serious disregard for freedoms and rights of others? That's not the way it is here in Morelia, not in my colonia.


robt65

Jul 14, 2010, 9:43 PM

Post #15 of 26 (5590 views)

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Re: [Peter] Lessons of Mexico

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If we take a good long (not just a fast glimpse) look at what everyone here has said, aren't we all on the same page? It seems to me that we all agree about the freedom ni Mexico. It also seems to me that each one of us has a different line in the sand that freedom then turns to transgression which is what I think that la Isla, Gringal, Peter, cookj5, others and even myself are trying to say. The only difference (I see) is that we each seem to have our own limits. This usually seems to hinge on what we personally have found or lost by experience of events that have happened (or not happened) to each one of us, and what our tolerant level might be due to these events or for the lack of these events. Of course we are all going to have different ideas of how far that freedom goes, before it starts to affect each one of us separately. This doesn't mean (I think) that one is more right or more wrong than the other, it just means that we are all individuals, with our own perspectives. I really think that none of us chooses to loose those personal perspectives. Difference is good and so is same. They will continue to cross, but head in the same direction and to me that's OK, that's personal growth. I think if we are really honest with ourselves, we have all seen (even here) on this forum, what our own limits are but on different subjects. God knows I showed mine the other night. On some other subjects my tolerance level is quit high. I think that is the same with all of us. Each of us has a differernt point of tolerance at different times depending upon the circumstances at that time. Any other day it could be higher or lower. That again is what makes us all human. For me, I can only say I am so happy that we are not all 5' 5" tall with blue eyes, bald (or for ladies) curly headed with red shirts and blue jeans, wearing a size 10 and driving a burro. How boring is that? I find it strange that simply because one person does not agree with another on one thing that we seem to confuse that with personality's. I may not (and do not) from time to time agree with some persons here on this forum about some things and yet on other things I do agree with that person. I really try not o confuse that with saying that person is not a good person. I think that by the very nature of all of us being able to be here and have such discussions (arguments) is the very best show of freedom. We have rules here on this forum that I do not totally agree with at times, but if I am allowed to participate here, then it is my responsibility to abide by those rules for the good of the most, like it or not. I knew those rules coming in here. And that to me is a good thing. I put my time in the military to allow for such freedom for everyone and anyone. I didn't like it coming back from Viet Nam to have been the target of eggs coming my way, but when one looks at it, I was there (Viet Nam) to protect that right of expression (freedom) for the thrower as well as the person who said that was awful. As I see it anyway. Just meant as food for thought. Gawd! I hope this doesn't wind up in the Mexican Kitchen section because of that statement (smiling)

Robt65

P. S. I just try to go through every day without harming someone physically, mentally, trying to understand all sides and asking forgiveness for those I have offended. If I can leave this old world in that manner . . . then that's OK with me. It might not be your ideal (and that's OK), but it is mine. . . . . . . (and that's OK too)


(This post was edited by robt65 on Jul 14, 2010, 9:52 PM)


Sunnyvmx


Jul 15, 2010, 4:03 AM

Post #16 of 26 (5556 views)

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Re: [robt65] Lessons of Mexico

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OUCH!!! Or as my Spanglish speaking friend says, Oweee, owee. What happened to my question. OK, the sun, beaches, food, friendly people, etc...etc... boring. On a lighter note, at least I too love the soul of Mexico.



http://dementias-daughter.com. Now over 25,000 hits.


HhowieE

Jul 15, 2010, 10:11 AM

Post #17 of 26 (5443 views)

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Re: [Sunnyvmx] Lessons of Mexico

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To get back to the original post, I enjoy living in Mexico because I am intimately connected.
With the day to day trials of existence, food, shelter and travel. With nature and her most trying experiences, rain, heat, wind and bugs. Also the most beautiful, sunrise, sunset, rain, heat and wind.
I experience all these things most intensely here. I love the west coast of Canada and all the beauty there as well but, here I feel closer to each moment.


Ustlach


Jul 15, 2010, 11:31 AM

Post #18 of 26 (5417 views)

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Re: [Sunnyvmx] Lessons of Mexico

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"Let us teach our children that the world owes a living only to those who produce more than they consume and freedom only to those who will fight for it."

Wow...consuming and fighting. How very American of you!


Gringal

Jul 15, 2010, 11:55 AM

Post #19 of 26 (5390 views)

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Re: [Ustlach] Lessons of Mexico

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I find it hard to believe that lady thinks it's really what we should teach our children. However, I have heard some political rants in recent times suggesting that anyone receiving charity or government aid is useless scum.....but I like to think it's a tiny minority. For the sake of the future, let us hope so.


ken_in_dfw

Jul 15, 2010, 12:03 PM

Post #20 of 26 (5382 views)

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Re: [Ustlach] Lessons of Mexico

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I think you misread, Ustlach. Sunnyvmx's signature emphasizes producing over consuming - a decidedly unAmerican trait. Though I will say that the political leaders of most developing countries, México included, seem to base their economic development plans on the ability of the U.S. consumer to continue consuming ever greater quantities of their stuff. So there seems to be a built-in bias globally for the U.S. to continue being the U.S. - Sunnyvmx's sentiment notwithstanding.


tashby


Jul 15, 2010, 3:32 PM

Post #21 of 26 (5332 views)

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Re: [Sunnyvmx] Lessons of Mexico

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I love the idea of this thread because I also get asked the question a lot and have tried to coalesce some of the many reasons. Different, less expected ways to answer....


Quote
"Why do you love living in Mexico?"


It doesn't bore me.


robt65

Jul 15, 2010, 7:54 PM

Post #22 of 26 (5279 views)

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Re: [Sunnyvmx] Lessons of Mexico

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Sunnyvmx,

I for one want to thank you for starting this post. I particularly like your quote. . . . . "If I choose to keep a horse in my yard, I can, but I must also accept that my neighbor may want a pig."

I think this post didn't necessarily go in the direction you thought it might go, but I am happy it has taken a directional turn when you said " There are no rules" to the question that you were asked, "Why do you love living in Mexico?"

When you gave that answer "there are no rules" . . . . that opened up a whole other (but related) topic of freedom. It is good that we all get to express our own individual thoughts on the subject. Several OP's to this post really got me to exercise my mind and open it up, as in trying to see others points of view more.

It would be really neat to see some Mexican people living here or NOB express their thoughts also on this post . . . . . . . . . . . . that would give us a real good insight into their thoughts about this subject. Maybe we can all learn quite a lot if we stop. . . . . listen . . . . and digest, what the other person is trying to express. We may or may not agree with the thought (and that's OK), but at least we have considered yet another viewpoint. I am really starting to learn in my old age, that there really is not only two sides to every story or thought, but many sides like a prisim.

After much review of these threads, I have not seen one wrong answer or thread here and I have not seen one (including mine) correct one. I have seen a blending of many different parts of many different threads. For me, I hope to leave this thread with a new perspective on some of the spoken thoughts here. To me that is really healthy.

So thanks Sunnyvmx for the start of a very interesting post.

Robt65.


gliderpilot

Dec 15, 2010, 7:46 PM

Post #23 of 26 (4234 views)

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Re: [Sunnyvmx] Lessons of Mexico

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G-DAY .Well looking at your photo its great to see that you still have that great smile of yours, hope all is well with you and your life , it was great to be part of it even if it was only for a sort time . miss that smile .your gliderpilot.xx


Pata Salada

Dec 19, 2010, 5:05 PM

Post #24 of 26 (4037 views)

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Re: [gliderpilot] Lessons of Mexico

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Oh, now the rumors can start!


Sunnyvmx


Dec 20, 2010, 9:02 AM

Post #25 of 26 (3945 views)

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Re: [Pata Salada] Lessons of Mexico

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You can't even hide in Mexico after you love 'em and leave 'em. It was nice to hear from Australia again. Anymore ex husbands looking for me?



http://dementias-daughter.com. Now over 25,000 hits.
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