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johang


Jul 11, 2010, 1:41 AM

Post #1 of 24 (9838 views)

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Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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I would like to request input on an issue that has recently come to a head in our community on Jaltemba Bay i.e. Guayabitos, La Peņita and Los Ayala in Nayarit.


Federal officials have begun to enforce regulations which prohibit food carts on the beach. Since this is the only way that the vendors can transport their goods to the beach, enforcement of the regulation would essentially remove them from the beach. The justification for the move is that beach litter will be reduced.


The local hotel association is circulating a petition which asks support for a central food market for these vendors to sell their wares. You can read the full story here: Beach vendors threatened. Although it does not say so the petition will probably be interpreted as support for removing the vendors from the beach.


We are collecting opinions and experiences in the comment section of the above article. The comments will be compiled and presented to the Hotel Association by our local community service organization, Los Amigos de La Peņita, so they have a clear picture of how tourists view the issue. The Jalapeņo, the local news site hosting the article, has not taken a public stand on the issue to avoid biasing the opinions collected, neither has the Los Amigos executive.


If you could give us your opinion or share a similar experience in your community that would be very helpful. Does your community have beach vendors? If not do you remember the community when it did have them? Do you feel that removing beach vendors will reduce beach litter?


If you don't have time to write it would also be helpful if you would take the time to answer the pole we are running on the local forum, Jaltemba Bay Folk.


Remember: Opinion poles are like blood test. You don't have to study for them its just what's inside you.

Johan....If we all do a little we can do a lot. Visit our little corner of paradise at the Jaltemba Jalapeņo.



Anonimo

Jul 11, 2010, 3:40 AM

Post #2 of 24 (9828 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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I'll ask this; I wonder if foreign visitors to Mexico can participate in political processes to the extent of signing petitions? Where's the fine line between expressing an opinon and engaging in unauthorized political action?

I do have opinions about the possible moving of the crafts and food mercados in Pátzcuaro, or the "improvements" to the Plaza Grande, but I keep my opinions to myself, except in private conversations among friends, and never on an Internet forum.

What I think about how things work or don't work here is irrelevant to how Mexico will find its own path; without input for me, for better or for worse.



Saludos,
Anonimo


Rolly


Jul 11, 2010, 7:37 AM

Post #3 of 24 (9777 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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A foreigner absolutely must not sign such a petition. It is a violation of Article 33 of the Mexican Constitution.

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Jul 11, 2010, 7:48 AM)


johang


Jul 11, 2010, 8:10 AM

Post #4 of 24 (9763 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Very true but our local service group Los Amigos de La Peņita whose directors are all Mexican is a registered Mexican organization whose signed up members are more than half Mexican. The organization has been asked to sign the petition. We have a Mexican president who can do that. We are trying to collect opinions from the community about the issue so we can make an informed decision and help inform our other community organizations how the issue might affect tourist visits to our area.

Comments will not be attributed to any individual and they cannot be recognized on the web site unless the person specifically enters personal identifying data in their comment.

I think we are on pretty safe ground here. We are very careful not to involve foreigners to the extent of violating section 33 but we do participate in the life of our community and recognize the right of our Mexican membership to fully express themselves politically.

Section 33 is pretty cut and dried but on some cold rainy day NOB our readers might like to read other parts of the Constitution of 1917 (English) (Spanish version). No it is not in OLD language. It was last updated just this year (2010-04-27). Or how a Mexican community is organized through the various levels of government. They could do that at the Political primer for our little corner of paradise.

Johan....If we all do a little we can do a lot. Visit our little corner of paradise at the Jaltemba Jalapeņo.


(This post was edited by johang on Jul 11, 2010, 8:17 AM)


johang


Jul 11, 2010, 8:26 AM

Post #5 of 24 (9756 views)

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Re: [anonimo] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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It is my understanding that the beach vendors do actually have licenses. The enforcement of the rules prevent them from using their normal mode of transport.

Johan....If we all do a little we can do a lot. Visit our little corner of paradise at the Jaltemba Jalapeņo.


Peter


Jul 11, 2010, 11:02 AM

Post #6 of 24 (9714 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Comments will not be attributed to any individual and they cannot be recognized on the web site unless the person specifically enters personal identifying data in their comment.

I think we are on pretty safe ground here.



Beach vendors are not such a hot button political item that would normally attract the Homeland Security gestapo or Mexican equivalent but it seems an appropriate time to interject something about online anonymity. Entering personal identifying data is done for you electronically and automatically. True, it is not so bold as to post your home address and telephone number and there are ways to stay fairly anonymous, though it may not be as easy as one might think.

The best way to remain anonymouse is not to raise any eyebrows. Once you have attracted someone's attention just about every keystroke you have ever made is at the fingertips of anyone watching that is interested and has the resources available. Just a precautionary note to anyone previously unaware.


richmx2


Jul 11, 2010, 12:21 PM

Post #7 of 24 (9690 views)

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Re: [Peter] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Oh please! No one is really going to care about some gringo writing in a foreign language website about some minor local issue. HOWEVER... gringos signing petitions are every reason for local authorities to dismiss the complaint as more foreign intrusion in Mexican affairs. The real reason to stay out of political affairs is that it is self-defeating. Evidence of foreign support is used by the opponents to discredit Mexican supporters as tools of imperialist and neo-colonialist agents.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


Peter


Jul 11, 2010, 12:48 PM

Post #8 of 24 (9685 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Oh please! No one is really going to care about some gringo writing in a foreign language website about some minor local issue.


My sentiments also, it just seemed like a good time to interject a word of caution. We are not as anonymous here as we would like to think, and it takes some real cyber gymnastics to totally distance one's self from detection in case anyone is really watching. Some discussions could easily cross the line. Someday it could come to that if the political situation really heats up, and past comments could come back to bite.

Tell me I'm wrong and I'll tell you I sincerely hope so.


mexliving

Jul 11, 2010, 5:51 PM

Post #9 of 24 (9621 views)

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Re: [Peter] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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vendors on the beach/etc is a mexican tradition....... i see no harm. they walk up and down the beach selling their goods. if you dont want to buy you simply say "no gracias" and they move on. they cause no harm to anyone .

i feel bad for these persons being harrased by the officials.

and maybe someone is friends with these people in charge that can give our opinion. i am sure almost all of us dont mind the vendors.


Sunnyvmx


Jul 12, 2010, 3:46 AM

Post #10 of 24 (9548 views)

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Re: [mexliving] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Recently I attempted to enjoy an evening at a cafe on the zocalo in Veracruz. The constant interruption of vendors made any enjoyment impossible. I couldn't listen to the music, carry on a conversation,watch the people in the square or eat my meal because of their presence. Many would not take "No, gracias" for an answer and were undoubtably more pushy because of my foreign face. I found this to be true on the beach in Acapulco too. For this reason I now know to avoid the popular tourist beaches of the West Coast and to look for these vendors before I sit anywhere. In Playa del Carmen the storefront vendors were almost as bad, but at least I could keep walking. The reason I live here is to escape all the rules and regulations that Americans make for themselves and others to the extent they remove the color and flavor of their lives. To say that the vendors cause no harm may be true in the physical sense, but they can't be good for the businesses that have their customers driven away or do not sit down in the first place. This is not true for Mexican tourists who simply wag their finger and are not bothered. I have seen this on the malecon in Catemaco where the vendors deal primarily with vacationing Mexicans. There I get by with my simple "vivo en Catemaco" and a smile unless it's one of the Hungarian brujas and then the only way to escape is to run faster than them.


chicois8

Jul 12, 2010, 7:50 AM

Post #11 of 24 (9504 views)

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Re: [Sunny1] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Hola Sunny, The vendors that are being harassed in this case are the food vendors on the beach ( fresh cocos, pineapples, BBQ fish and shrimp, fresh baked macaroon cookies)customers come to them and they do not push their goodies, and it is because their customers leave the garbage behind...The township puts out garbage cans and people steel them...
Ocanahua, Jalisco
San Mateo, California


Reefhound


Jul 12, 2010, 8:13 AM

Post #12 of 24 (9499 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Like most of you, I like having the vendors on beaches for my convenience when I want a snack or a drink or whatever. Like Sunny, I get annoyed when they are too pushy and persistent.

Perhaps the vendors in this particular case are passive and do not approach you but many other types of vendors in other places do, and perhaps these vendors are being lumped into the overall category and found guilty by association?

It's also a shame that people cannot refrain from littering. That's an issue across all societies in all places. Two possible solutions I see besides just effectively kicking the vendors out are 1) stronger enforcement against those who actually do the littering, and 2) providing a daily beach cleanup crew and building the cost into the license fees or a beach sales tax.


Scottm

Jul 12, 2010, 1:55 PM

Post #13 of 24 (9437 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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We live in a beach town for 6 months a year, for the last 10 years. The most prolific beach litter we see, are endless
heaps of cigarette butts, disposable diapers and now the non-returnable beer bottles. None of which are sold by
beach vendors. Someone seems to be organizing a vendetta against these poor guys, just trying to feed their families
by slogging a slurpy cart through the sand.


sioux4noff

Jul 13, 2010, 8:52 AM

Post #14 of 24 (9343 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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They may have to be creative in finding a different way to transport their wares. I don't think there are may "carts" used by vendors at a lot of beaches, but the vendors are still there. In Bucerias, all the vendors walk, well some do use wheelbarrows.
Does federal law actually prohibit whatever means they use to get their wares out? Would letting the vendors continue to break that law (if one does indeed exist) open the door to other violators that maybe you wouldn't like so much, such as ATVs on the beach? Just some questions unfortunately I don't have any answers.


richmx2


Jul 13, 2010, 9:33 AM

Post #15 of 24 (9327 views)

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Re: [Sunny1] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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This is not true for Mexican tourists who simply wag their finger and are not bothered.

Probably a tourist, or part year resident is never gonna catch on to the cultural clues, but for those who live here, it's little things like learning to walk at a Mexican pace, speaking in a even tone of voice, and... yes.. wagging your finger when you can't just overlook the touts, that magically make them disappear. That, or... with condo salesmen who start their patter in English, answering in halting Spanish "Lo siento, soy ucranio. No comprende." :-)


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


tashby


Jul 13, 2010, 9:37 AM

Post #16 of 24 (9322 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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I happen to like the beach vendors in Guayabitos. That particular beach, because it's so nice and long and relatively flat, allows for the colorful carts and vehicles they use. I consider it a unique part of the local flavor, and while Guayabitos is by no means my favorite beach destination, as a tourist the vendors add rather than detract from the experience at Guayabitos.

I seriously doubt the effort to have them removed from the beach is about litter.

Who do you suppose is likely to gain if the food vendors are forced off the beach? As always, follow the money.


chinagringo


Jul 13, 2010, 10:02 AM

Post #17 of 24 (9316 views)

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Re: [tashby] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Number of years ago, we stopped for lunch on the beach in Guayabitos. Along came your typical silver jewelry salesman and he headed directly for Kathy as a likely customer. Sure enough, she purchased three items after beating the guy up over the price. Not satisfied with his success, he started in on me but I have never been big on wearing anything other than a watch. Kept telling him that I was not interested in jewelry and he finally got the message. His final attempt at a sale was: (in a very hushed voice): "then how about some dope"? End of all conversation but it shocked Kathy when I told her what he said when we were walking back to the car.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



tashby


Jul 13, 2010, 12:06 PM

Post #18 of 24 (9294 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Quote
it shocked Kathy


Well. I guess I'm shocked she was shocked.

Anyway, the issue and thread is specifically about food vendors, I think. We tourists will always be able to score silver and pot on a Mexican beach. No worries.


Hound Dog

Jul 13, 2010, 12:18 PM

Post #19 of 24 (9285 views)

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Re: [tashby] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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This is an absurd thread. Dawg has spent time on beaches from Mumbai to Tangiers to Mombasa to South Alabama to Nice to Gujan-Maestras to Puerto Arrista to Zanzibar to Penang and I will tell you this. Beach vendors are a pain in the ass whether in Mexico or Tanzania or Marseilles. Expell them all - God will sort it out.

You haven´t lived until you have tried to fend off a Moroccan beach (or, for that matter, street) vendor. Larger assholes have never existed on the planet. You folks absolutely define naivete.


tashby


Jul 13, 2010, 1:02 PM

Post #20 of 24 (9261 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Quote
You folks absolutely define naivete.


Hahaha.

The only thing naive in this thread is the assumption that, when it comes to beach vendors, one person's opinion is more valid than others. Actually, that's not even naive. It's pathetic.

Don't be silly.

Or rather, To the moon, Alice.


Hound Dog

Jul 13, 2010, 1:51 PM

Post #21 of 24 (9241 views)

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Re: [tashby] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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To the moon, Alice.

The definitive exclamation of implied spousal abuse. Said in jest at the time Jackie Gleason muttered those words in the 1950s but not at all funny today. The incivil discourse on the beaches of Tangiers or Chennai or Mazatlan is not so lightly disclaimed. Imposing and overly tenacious beach vendors lacking manners are not amusing where I attempt to relax but you´re a funny guy Tashby. More gratuitous asides, please.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jul 13, 2010, 1:52 PM)


N2Futur


Jul 23, 2010, 10:59 AM

Post #22 of 24 (8891 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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A Mexican beach without food vendors? You gotta be kidding! We live in Melaque full time and I can not imagine our beach without the food carts, or being approached to buy a mango on a stick, complete with chile, limon y sal. Or pepinos, jicama, sandia. Or shrimp on a stick. We have gotten to know a few of the vendors. Mom and/or pop operating the food cart and the kids peddling their products all day long on the beach. You ban them from the beach, you take away their livelihood.

And a simple "no gracias" usually sends them on their way.

Elke
___________________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to pick the one I never tried before." - Mae West


wendy devlin

Jul 23, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #23 of 24 (8873 views)

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Re: [N2Futur] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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I try to listen to the different sides to a story.

A few days later the hotel association wrote a letter to the website, mentioned by the OP, soliticting input from this forum.
However it later appeared from the Hotel owners' Association letter and a few of the letters, written in Spanish in the comments to the original story, that the dispute is more about respecting the existing rules, than trying to create an entirely different situation.

http://jaltembajalapeno.com/...rifies-its-position/

However there's little possibility that an outsider like myself to any dispute, can get much of a handle on a local situation.

For example in Melaque, during my visits there, mi amiga, who made her living as a beach vendor(plus being an elder woman for her clan relocated from Guerrero, some years before)she and her crew paid for licenses to be vendoras on the beach. Perhaps Melaque also sells licenses that permits wheeled carts etc. and has a stricter enforcement of the 'rules' policy than other similiar communities. Who knows?

When I stayed in Melaque, witnessed periodic efforts by the Hotel Association owners there, to clamp down on illegal rental of bungalows by locals and ex-pats, only to have the situation to revert back. Another penalty sweep...another reversion to the same situation.

One of the more interesting situations, that I watched unfold N2Futur(near where you live) was when a recently elected Major of the local Muncipio, tried to start building a home, at a public beach access. (highly illegal) And had rebar for construction delivered to the site, blocking beach access. It was the location where members of the fishing cooperative could haul their pangas out to the road.

A huge petition immediately circulated among the ejidos in the area.

Dozens of men began arriving via pick-ups to the beach access site.

This site was pivotal to the operation of the fishing cooperative. Every morning, near daybreak, men would go out, fishing in their pangas and return around noon with the daily catch. Then the men would hop to, cleaning the fish, which was then, sold, usually, immediately as most was, preordered by local restaurants. Although, if you arrived promptly enough, you could usually buy fresh fish. As unsold fish, would likely head a la casa, with the fishermen. If they could get their asking price. Then consider it sold!

The men, dressed in cowboy hats (estilo ranchero), brought deck chairs and occupied the street, by shifts, for three days. Could hear hours of heated arguing from our casita, about a block away. On the fourth day, the rancheros disappeared, along with the rebar.


(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Jul 23, 2010, 1:12 PM)


carltmon

Jul 24, 2010, 4:52 PM

Post #24 of 24 (8687 views)

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Re: [johang] Beach vendors being removed from our Beaches

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Sweet! My cerveza is tasting better already!
carltmon
 
 
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