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paleobrujo

Jul 4, 2010, 8:11 AM

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Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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from a Querétaro resident.
Expats and Mexican friends met yesterday to discuss two documented cases of these intercity buses being taken over en route by armed gangs and passengers robbed of valuables. Mexicans who were on these buses attended the meeting. One bus was the MEX Airport-Querétaro Primera Plus bus (in May) and the other attack (in Feb) was an ETN bus from Mexico Norte to Queretaro. Has anyone else heard of such incidents? Or of any reports having been made to the Embassy or local Consulates?

esperanza

Jul 4, 2010, 9:20 AM

Post #2 of 36 (13176 views)

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Re: [paleobrujo] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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I heard about both of these incidents but have never seen news reports or heard that the attempts were documented in any newspaper.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

norteño

Jul 4, 2010, 9:44 AM

Post #3 of 36 (13165 views)

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Re: [paleobrujo] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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This news story from February of this year speaks of such holdups of intercity buses by armed gangs as being fairly common. Apparently the usual MO is for the robbers to board as passengers, steal money and jewelry and get off into a getaway car.

There is some discussion as to why metal detectors (when in use) do not alert to weapons, and one theory is that cleaning crews stash the guns on the buses. Some interviewees dismiss formal police reports as a waste of time. The most recent specific case referred to was on an ETN bus enroute to León from Mexico City. A translation of a couple of paragraphs appears below the link.

http://www.am.com.mx/nota.aspx?ID=382728

a.m. reported yesterday that an ETN bus coming from Mexico City had been robbed last Saturday by four armed men.

The robbers boarded the bus at the Tepotzotlán station, and during the trip subdued the nine passengers and stripped and beat one of them. After relieving them of their belongings they fled in a vehicle that was waiting for them on the autopista to Querétaro.

Berenice Godoy agreed with the passengers who were robbed Saturday that the Tepotzotlán station is where the thieves board.

“I travel to Mexico City a lot on ETN buses and they have robbed me three times, so the report published today (yesterday) is not something new to have happened to that transportation company, as there were already reports that they take on people at that booth who rob passengers," she stated.

paleobrujo

Jul 4, 2010, 9:47 AM

Post #4 of 36 (13163 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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I contacted the Consular Agent in San Miguel de Allende and he had not received any reports from US citizens. However, he pointed out that it is the Embassy in DF than "covers" QRO. We still need to see if the Embassy/Consular section has received any complaints. Among the Mexicans with whom we spoke (who were on the buses), one wrote to the QRO gerente of Primera Plus and received a brush-off reply. Others are wary of going to the police, because the police here have higher priorities (shoot-out here last week with La Familia, leaving one Federal agent dead - see Diario de Queretero) and general mistrust of police.

eyePad

Jul 4, 2010, 2:11 PM

Post #5 of 36 (13080 views)

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Re: [paleobrujo] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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bad news. This sort of thing has been happening for years, but when it is a bus the expats might use, on routes they might use, it hits close to people using this forum.
Herradura de Plata, anyone? How frequent are third class buses robbed?
apáñatelas como puedas

paleobrujo

Jul 5, 2010, 7:19 AM

Post #6 of 36 (12956 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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REF. Willie Sutton - you go where the money is, which is not 3rd class buses, but airport buses especially. Has this been going on for a while? Is it on the increase? How to tell? Should the Embassy issue a Security Update - they would need some solid evidence...

Goyo

Jul 5, 2010, 12:25 PM

Post #7 of 36 (12893 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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In Reply To

How frequent are third class buses robbed?

Are you asking specific to third class buses or in reference to ETN and Primera Plus? ETN and Primera Plus are first class buses and ETN runs ejecutivo/lujo class also. If you are calling regular city buses 'third class' that would be a misnomer. I believe those might be more subject to pickpocketing or grab-and-run thefts but not robbery which involves assault (threat of violence). There would certainly be little to gain by robbing buses and particularly those which are not first class/lujo or typical commuter/city/inter-city buses. I'd appreciate any links to articles that talk about the ETN and Primera Plus robberies. In the north and west along the Mex 15 I believe I have been through several false checkpoints but - changuitos - no disasters yet. This is on first class TAP and Elite.

mexliving

Jul 5, 2010, 7:54 PM

Post #8 of 36 (12826 views)

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Re: [Goyo] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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you have to show i.d and give your full name to purchase a ticket..... it would seem very easy to review the passenger list to find the passenger/s on all the buses involved.

i also find it hard to believe the bus driver cant see what type of vehicle it is and call the federal police....

Hound Dog

Jul 6, 2010, 1:56 PM

Post #9 of 36 (12718 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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How frequent are third class buses robbed?

I´ve been through this many years ago traveling the rails in East Africa and India. One never travels third class in these areas because it is hell. One never travels first class because then one becomes a mark for not-uncommon bandits proliferating in rural areas. Second class is best to avoid thievery but never secure. Nothing is ever secure in the outback so if you are seeking security, live in a closet in your bedroom and watch National Geographic.

In Chiapas, infamously, a tour bus filled with French tourists was commandered a few years ago and the passengers were forced to disrobe and all of their belongings were stolen while they were left there naked on the side of the Ocosingo-Palenque Carretera. The bandits were later found slaughtered by unknown forces. Such is life on the frontier.

Would you rather hop a bus in inner -city Detroit or the Oakland downtown slums where I used to live and work? I think not if you are in your right mind.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jul 6, 2010, 1:59 PM)

mensamia

Jul 6, 2010, 6:24 PM

Post #10 of 36 (12667 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Esperanza said: “I heard about both of these incidents but have never seen news reports or heard that the attempts were documented in any newspaper”.

I think journalists may be afraid to print all the crime that is happening. As far as the robberies and car-jackings, maybe they don’t want to encourage governmental wrath because of the drop in tourism, As far as the narco-violence, maybe the journalists just don’t want to encourage their own deaths. Here is an article from AP that mentions the fear that journalists in Mexico have:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100704/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_elections

Hound Dog said: “In Chiapas, infamously, a tour bus filled with French tourists was commandeered a few years ago and the passengers were forced to disrobe and all of their belongings were stolen while they were left there naked on the side of the Ocosingo-Palenque Carretera.”

That sounds like a Peter Seller’s movie. Did they have to sing the national anthem of France?

Hound Dog said: “Would you rather hop a bus in inner -city Detroit or the Oakland downtown slums where I used to live and work? I think not if you are in your right mind.”

I agree, but think most people moved to Mexico because it was NOT like that… and now it is.

norteño

Jul 6, 2010, 8:42 PM

Post #11 of 36 (12627 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Today's Universal reports a bus of an unstated company was shot up by unknown subjects near Cd. Lerdo while on its run from the city of Durango to Cd. Acuña. Three passengers were slightly injured from flying glass. The assailants were reportedly wearing clothing similar to police uniforms but there is no suggestion they were actually police. The driver refused to stop when they ordered him to pull over and they fled after the shooting.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/693460.html

Yesterday the driver and the ticket collector on an Ómnibus del Pacífico bus on the Guasave-Sinaloa Municipio route in the state of Sinaloa were taken off the bus and executed on the side of the highway by gunmen who left a sign with the bodies saying that they were killed for "running errands" for the residents of mountain communities in the area. The news story says they had been delivering foodstuffs and running other errands.

http://www.debate.com.mx/...06291&IdCat=6100

Brian

Jul 6, 2010, 8:48 PM

Post #12 of 36 (12626 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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One more unlucky journalist in Michoacan:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/693541.html

P.S. I was in downtown Oakland recently shopping at my favorite magazine store, Delaur's, which is an icon in the community. That area is much nicer than it was in the past. I've been gone from Mexico for four years now and my memories of it don't correspond with today's reality. Likewise, I suspect that HD's recollections of downtown Oakland are similarly dated. It seemed fairly safe compared to years past and has been really cleaned up. All bets are off, however, if the jury returns a not-guilty verdict in the trial of the BART transit cop who shot a black man in the back while he was subdued. Another Rodney King riot is a distinct possibility.

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jul 7, 2010, 7:46 AM)

mensamia

Jul 7, 2010, 4:55 PM

Post #13 of 36 (12524 views)

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Re: [paleobrujo] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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I wonder if a moderator can put this thread where it belongs, in travelling Mexico. It may save some lives.

paleobrujo

Jul 7, 2010, 5:06 PM

Post #14 of 36 (12516 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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YES YOU ARE CORRECT.
HOW DOES ONE CALL OR FLAG THE MODERATOR TO MOVE IT???

Rolly

Jul 7, 2010, 5:08 PM

Post #15 of 36 (12511 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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OK. Your wish is my command.

Rolly Pirate

mensamia

Jul 7, 2010, 5:12 PM

Post #16 of 36 (12500 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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that was speedy. thanks Rolly. :)

norteño

Jul 7, 2010, 10:58 PM

Post #17 of 36 (12421 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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A couple of recent news stories, showing how remarkably consistent the method of operation is:

http://www.periodicoexpress.com.mx/nota.php?id=236725

June 24, 2010. Two armed subjects boarded an Ómnibus de México Tepic-Guadalajara run at the main station in Tepic and robbed passengers at gunpoint and got off. Four people filed formal charges.

http://www.oem.com.mx/...o/notas/n1697167.htm

July 6, 2010. The passengers and driver of a PAI bus were held up en route from Ixmiquilpan, Hidalgo to Pachuca by four passengers, one of whom fired a shot without hitting anyone. They stopped the bus, got off and fled. The bus had picked up and let off passengers along the route, making it hard to determine where the robbers had boarded.

Hound Dog

Jul 8, 2010, 7:31 AM

Post #18 of 36 (12374 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Hound Dog said: “In Chiapas, infamously, a tour bus filled with French tourists was commandeered a few years ago and the passengers were forced to disrobe and all of their belongings were stolen while they were left there naked on the side of the Ocosingo-Palenque Carretera.”

That sounds like a Peter Seller’s movie. Did they have to sing the national anthem of France?

Now, that was pretty funny Mensamia but my French wife would like to know why the absurd notion of 50 naked French tourists singing "La Marseillaise" in the jungle on the Ocosingo-Palenque Carretera is funnier than the notion of 50 naked Alabama expats from San Miguel on a tour of the southern provinces of Mexico standing in that same place singing "Oh, I wish I were in the land of cotton, Doo Dah, Doo, Dah".

Frankly, I find both scenarios amusing but, on the other hand, we often travel by lusury bus in Mexico so my amusement is tempered by some irritation at having to worry about even one more manifestation of the lawlessness we experience around here - both in West Central and Southeastern Mexico. Beats being eaten by a grizzly in Duluth while taking out the garbage.

mensamia

Jul 8, 2010, 8:47 AM

Post #19 of 36 (12344 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Hound-Dog...Nobody has better mastered the art of contempt than the French from France. The expression of contempt while nude is an interesting juxtaposition and entertaining to imagine. When one is naked, all pretention (even French pretention) is impossible.

Since the robbers are not having any problem arming themselves, why not start a movement so citizens can be armed and protect themselves?????

Hound Dog

Jul 8, 2010, 9:24 AM

Post #20 of 36 (12333 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Hound-Dog...Nobody has better mastered the art of contempt than the French from France. The expression of contempt while nude is an interesting juxtaposition and entertaining to imagine

Well said, Mensamania. Dawg lived in Paris for about a year back in the 1960s and my only hope for a woman-connection was among the Brits or other foreigners. The French can be, shall we say, standoffish. On the other hand, after I moved back to Mobile I had the good fortune to meet and marry a French woman in my own neck-of-the-woods and when I returned to France as a part of the family, I was treated better than I had ever been treated by my Alabama family and for the first time in my life, I learned the true art of French family dining or, as Julia Child said (and I paraphrase), for the first time in my life I experienced great cuisine. If it were up to me and God had given the French the Mexicans´ climate, I´d be feasting on foie gras in my old age. That´s OK. Mexico is a fine place to live. Pass the tacos, please.

norteño

Jul 8, 2010, 1:23 PM

Post #21 of 36 (12293 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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Some more recent reports of holdups of buses in various parts of Mexico:

http://www.agenciamn.com/...ca-de-un-atraco.html

June 14, 2010. Two armed subjects on a Caminante line bus run from Toluca to Mexico City rob the other passengers and get off inside Mexico City. The bus continues a short distance and two people get off to report the crime to police, who tell them, "It's a pity, boys, but we can't do anything, you have to file a complaint with the terminal manager."

http://www.heraldoags.com/...aron-un-autobus.html

June 19, 2010. An Estrella Blanca bus is held up in the northern part of the state of Aguascalientes on a run from Monterrey to Aguascalientes by two armed passengers who board on the highway and get off and escape after the robbery. The driver refused to accompany passengers who wanted to get off and file a complaint upon arrival in the city of Aguascalientes.

http://www.larazonslp.com/sitio/nota.php?id=7578

June 22, 2010. A Zima Real bus coming from the U. S. border is stopped on the highway just north of Matehuala by heavily armed subjects in a taxi and pickup who rob passengers and hit one over the head with a gun butt.

http://www.publimar.com.mx/?p=9031

June 19, 2010. Five subjects armed with shoulder weapons and traveling in two vehicles stop a bus coming from San Bartolomé Loxicha, Oaxaca to Puerto Escondido by shooting out its tires. They rob passengers of cash and valuables.

http://www.eluniversaledomex.mx/ecatepec/nota3222.html

June 1, 2010. A bus passenger is shot to death during the robbery of a bus on the autopista between Mexico City and Pachuca, near Ecatepec, by subjects who escape. The article says that according to witnesses two hooded subjects regularly hold up buses along this stretch of road. According to two articles in the "Notas Relacionadas", a woman was killed in a bus robbery on the same autopista in the State of Mexico in May, and a police official is quoted in early May that four bus robberies per day were occurring on that highway, some with physical harm to passengers.

http://www.sierranortedepuebla.com.mx/...O-ASALTO-A-PASAJEROS

July 5, 2010. A bus coming from Mexico to Papanta, Puebla is held up in a rural part of the state of Puebla by two subjects on the highway who force it to stop.

http://www.elindependientedehidalgo.com.mx/...n1&catid=64:tula

July 2, 2010. Police report that in June there were five highway robberies of buses in the Tula region of Hidalgo.

http://www.presidencia.gob.mx/prensa/?contenido=57960

June 23, 2010. In a press release the Federal Police state that they received information about four subjects holding up a bus on the highway and were able to arrest them without bloodshed. One was a municipal policeman from Ecatepec.

http://www.oem.com.mx/...o/notas/n1677227.htm

June 19, 2010. In what the article calls the "umpteenth" highway bus robbery, four thugs traveling as passengers hold up a bus on the Pachuca-Ciudad Sahagún highway and beat some passengers and fire two shots. When a passenger tells a bus line ticket clerk what had happened she says, "Yes, there had already been two or three robberies this week."

http://noticias.cuarto-poder.com.mx/...ico/pag.php?MTExMjA3

June 17, 2010. A bus traveling from San Cristóbal de las Casas to Xalapa is forced to stop by three hooded subjects standing on the highway in a remote area of Chiapas. They divert it onto a dirt road and rob the passengers. The bus continues after the holdup and the crime is reported when they come up on a group of Federal Police cars parked on the highway. The officers tell the passengers there are many robberies on the highway.

mensamia

Jul 8, 2010, 2:01 PM

Post #22 of 36 (12279 views)

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Re: [norteño] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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does the term 'failed state' apply here... I think so.

mensamia

Jul 8, 2010, 2:02 PM

Post #23 of 36 (12278 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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how 'bout 'country under seige'? Is that a more accurate term for what is happening in Mexico?

Brian

Jul 8, 2010, 2:29 PM

Post #24 of 36 (12264 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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How about "tip of the iceberg"? That is an amazing number of such cases (all within one month) especially considering that most crimes don't make it into the newspapers for a variety of reasons.

norteño

Jul 8, 2010, 7:26 PM

Post #25 of 36 (12200 views)

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Re: [Brian] Attacks on Primera Plus Airport Bus and ETN bus from DF

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In Reply To

How about "tip of the iceberg"? That is an amazing number of such cases (all within one month) especially considering that most crimes don't make it into the newspapers for a variety of reasons.

This is by no means an exhaustive list of bus robberies in Mexico reported in the news over that period, it is just some stories I was able to locate in a couple of minutes and not even all of them. I was encouraged to do this by one poster's ludicrous suggestion that riding a bus in some parts of the U. S. is more dangerous.

Several more recent cases:

http://www.e-consulta.com/...54388&Itemid=282

June 30, 2010. In the Sierra Norte region of the state of Puebla on the Mexico City-Tuxpán highway six subjects in ski masks appear on the highway with guns and a machete. Firing shots in the air, they force the bus to stop and rob the passengers. A patrol car passes by and they flee. Two are arrested.

http://www.launion.com.mx/...b%C3%BAs-lasser.html

June 27, 2010. A bus of the Lasser line is robbed in Puente de Ixtla, Morelos by two armed subjects who had gotten on in Cuernavaca.

http://www.eltuxtepecano.com/...iantes-tuxtepecanos/

July 2, 2010. An Autotour bus filled with market vendors en route from Tuxtepec, Oaxaca to make purchases in Mexico City is stopped by subjects in two pickups who fire shots in the air and rob the passengers.

(This post was edited by norteño on Jul 8, 2010, 8:03 PM)

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