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Peter


May 28, 2010, 1:01 PM

Post #26 of 60 (6791 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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We would really like to hear from those who favor super thin crust pizza with a European flair.
___________

For starters: Gringal, lack of response may be telling of the state of pizza at Lakeside. I have only been there briefly just a couple of times so couldn't say, but, IS there a best pizza at Lakeside? If there is not an affirmative answer then rest assurred some of the finest gringo minds in Michoacán are already working on a solution. After all, Pátzcuaro is already on its way to becoming the next and most fashionable Lakeside.

The type of crust I prefer has to do with the type of pizza. I have to say that my all-time favorite pizza is a thin-crust pepperoni pizza cooked well-done, mushrooms optional. I need to hear back from the experts what would constitute a European flair, I'm willing to add some faux authenticity. In such case, I like a crisp crust that the pepperoni juices (read grease) have begun to saturate and cook-in a bit of snap to that crispness. That is my favorite and is the essence of pizza simplicity, however, proper execution demands the cooking time and heat intensity are just so in order to provide that precise amount of perfect doneness.

Sausage pizzas and "works" pizzas allow for thicker and deep-dish preparations, though thin crusts too are well-suited if one is careful to not let peppers and other veggies cause sogginess to the delicate crust. Italian sausage is not always easy to find here so Argentina-style chorizo is good. I have found Italian sausage in Superama but by that time I already perfected and prefer to use carne molida that I've spiced with star anise and garlic.

Pizza condiments for me are always crushed chile and dry cheese. My tastes perhaps have changed somewhat or maybe there exist better alternatives here but I have completely replaced parmesean cheese with dry queso de rancho grated to almost powder, and use ground chile piquín instead of crushed generic red peppers for added kick. I also keep a shaker of ground dried chipotle chile for more extravagant "works" pizzas. My Mexican friends usually want ketchup for a condiment but I never make that available until they ask for it and my feigning lapses of "no entiendo" don't work. I also will absolutely refuse to put sliced American Cheese on their pizzas even if they beg me to do it.

To get the European flair do you suggest more exotic cheeses or condiments? Or is it more a matter of refusing to use certain ones, like cheddar cheese? I typically use only mozzarella or sometimes a blend that includes gouda or a type of mennonite white cheddar that I like.


Gringal

May 28, 2010, 1:28 PM

Post #27 of 60 (6782 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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There may be others who discovered the Pizza of Their Dreams in Europe....but for me, pizza reached its peak in the New World. There was a place (may still be) in L.A. called Maselli's. With opera singing waiters, dark little booths and checkered tablecloths. The pizza crust was not too thick; not too thin and the ingredients were all the real thing.
You would think this was simple to create......anywhere......but not so. As you said, we're in a world of ketchup (and not the best ketchup) on the pizza.

I've heard the Patzcuaro neck of the woods is the Next Great Place. Too bad it's so dang cold in the winter. It's pretty, and they already have some good places to eat. But you gotta quit chasing rainbows sometime. With luck, somebody will come here and make pizza the way it should be. Which simply means the way I like it. lol.


Hound Dog

May 28, 2010, 1:43 PM

Post #28 of 60 (6778 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Well, Peter, I don´t know what I meant by European flair but it looked good when I wrote it. The best European pizzas in Dawg´s experience come from around Marseilles and the least interesting (in my limited experience) come from Naples. I appreciate the hint on using Argentinian chorizo sausage as a substitute for Italian sausage and will have to try that since I, like you, have not found good Italian sausage around Lake Chapala as of yet.

I still await someone´s advice on a really good wood fired oven pizza at Lakeside and will try recommendations.

I agree with Gringal that, probably the best pizza is to be found in the "New World" although I disagree about the dining scene in Pátzcuaro where I have never even once, despite several visits there, had a good meal except on the road to Erongaricuaro. Now I have had good food in Uruápan and Morelia and (believe it or not) Angangueo before the disastrous flood there although I wouldn´t think the place we dined in is still around but maybe I´m wrong. Don´t get me wrong - I think Pátzcuaro is a charming and attractive town but there seems to be very little there there at least in my opinion so we opted for Chiapas instead. To each his own.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on May 28, 2010, 1:59 PM)


Peter


May 28, 2010, 2:00 PM

Post #29 of 60 (6774 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Kind of like Dominick's on Oxnard Boulevard. That was where I set my standard for a great pepperoni pizza. The place has been there forever, has a small dining room up front with a regular ceiling and subdued lighting accented with candles. But the body of the place looks like an old warehouse with open ceiling, candles in wine bottles with several years of wax drippings, red checkered tablecloths, and back then the only place with those hard-candied almonds by the checkout counter.

Dominick himself was not very tall, or it could have been an illusion of short stature because he measured as big around as he was tall. I have never seen anyone so round before or since. He knew good food. I believe it is the last remaining landmark restaurant in my old hometown. Just this past December even Sal's Mexican Inn closed its doors after opening in 1948. It just occurred to me though, the Golden Chicken Inn I believe is still in operation in an old downtown spot upstairs. The date on that place says, Since 1926. Oxnard's town square has in its center a Chinese pagoda in honor of the Chinese folk there since early on in the town's history. It has always been a melting pot city.


don pedro


May 28, 2010, 2:16 PM

Post #30 of 60 (6770 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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ok,this is the best pizza you'll ever eat.

www.tonyspizzapalace.com

the oven is natural gas fired and the texture is achieved by throwing the dough in the air.
if you have vonage just phone and ask either tony or his sons sal and tony jr. how they do it. just tell them peter kertesz sent ya and say's hola from mexico.
there is a pic of one of their thin crust and even the thicker crust next to it ain't that thick.
if ya look at the dinner menu,you will see peters special which was named after me 35 years ago when they first opened.
tony did the catering fer our wedding as well.
tony's retired-maybe i can convince him ta come down here.
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!

(This post was edited by don pedro on May 28, 2010, 3:16 PM)


DavidHF

May 28, 2010, 2:23 PM

Post #31 of 60 (6761 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Back at Lakeside, our current favorite pizza is from Pepe & Aurora's. One size, medium crust, decent ingredients, wood oven, works for us. Our past faves have been Toscana and Trattoria. I've heard that the California Pizza Kitchen in the Andares Mall is pretty good if one is in Guadalajara.


Hound Dog

May 28, 2010, 3:24 PM

Post #32 of 60 (6745 views)

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Re: [don pedro] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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tony did the catering fer our wedding as well.
tony's retired-maybe i can convince him ta come down here.


Thanks, Pedro but if this guy was tossing pizza dough when either you or I got married, he is probably tossing vulgar lines to the nurse changing his diapers these days.

I will say that I am pleased to see you have survived and are as ornery as ever these days.


don pedro


May 28, 2010, 5:17 PM

Post #33 of 60 (6722 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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you forget,bubinski , i have been married 3 times -the catering took place only 20 years ago.

i'm gonna say it again-dominos is the best pizza around here except fer them that thinks cali designer pizza is the cat's meow.-SNORK!

the centres of north american pizza perfection are new york, chicago, toronto and montreal and the closest thing to that is dominos. mi amigo tony learned his trade in new york and once he opened saved me from making my own. i did this fer many moons in edmonton. the way he 'splained it to me was "them greeks don't know how ta make pizza like us italians".

i have no interest in a crust so thin and hard that it reminds one of a bbqued tortilla or pita bread but it's designer dontcha know!-jaja!
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!


Peter


May 28, 2010, 5:48 PM

Post #34 of 60 (6713 views)

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Re: [don pedro] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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the centres of north american pizza perfection are new york, chicago, toronto and montreal and...
___________

I am pleased to have been working in a place where all them come together, where every pizza-eatin' mobster type would go to get away from all the peace and quiet. In the '70's I was a taxista in Las Vegas for a few years. Get away from the hotels and casinos and hit some spots still accessible for the visitors and there was some excellent pizzas happening from all those styles.


Peter


May 28, 2010, 8:39 PM

Post #35 of 60 (6690 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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...so we opted for Chiapas instead.
___________

I don't blame you for that, I like marimba music. I was just joshing a bit about the new Lakeside, mostly because I came in and dominated the thread so much I just had to come in and really smell up the place, but Pátzcuaro is gaining popularity, for good or ill. Considering what is available around Chapala there is a long way to go to ever catch up with it, for good or ill.

You've heard me comment on the restaurant scene in these parts, I've had some decent meals here but nothing really spectacular and usually disappointing. I think if I want really good Mexican food I have to go to California for it. I have a couple places in Tierra Caliente I like to habit and prefer to buy my queso in Tepalcatepec when I'm out that way.

There is one restaurant I really like out this way, the only one in the whole area, and I describe it also by saying it is on the way to Erongarícuaro. Oddly enough, it is a German restaurant, Campestre Alemán located in Arócutin just a short distance outside Eronga.

It has been years since I've been to Ajijic and high time I took Tere out of Morelia for a little sightseeing. We'll have to make a trip out that way, stay in one of those famous bed and breakfast joints then do some shopping at Superlake's. I'll see if I can find a can of corned beef hash there.


Anonimo

May 29, 2010, 2:01 AM

Post #36 of 60 (6671 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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In Reply To
Since you guys stole this "Best Pizza at Lakeside" thread and moved it over to Michoacan, Dawg will now proceed on down the road far to the southeast and we find ourselves in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, the famous old colonial city which has a large Italian colony residing thereabouts and several great pizza joints including some with wood fired ovens serving up the best imaginable thin crust pizzas. Fine stuff the equal of which Dawg has yet to find at Lakeside.


May we move this to The Mexican Kitchen?

Someday, God willing, we'll return to visit San Cristóbal de Las Casas.



Saludos,
Anonimo


Anonimo

May 29, 2010, 2:17 AM

Post #37 of 60 (6670 views)

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Re: [don pedro] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Quote
the centres of north american pizza perfection are new york, chicago, toronto and montreal and the closest thing to that is dominos.


Domino's in desperation, perhaps. I'd rather do with out.

The best pizzas are in (are you ready for this?): New Haven, CT.

Anchovy pizza at Modern Apizza, New Haven, C.


Famous White Clam Pizza at Pepe's, New Haven, CT.

The whole megillah pizza album, here, for your perusal and delight. Pizzas both homemade (many were made in Mexico, in restaurants).
http://picasaweb.google.com/...iana?feat=directlink

Buen provecho,
Anonimo

Damn, I'm hungry for some pizza now.


Hound Dog

May 29, 2010, 7:24 AM

Post #38 of 60 (6642 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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There is one restaurant I really like out this way, the only one in the whole area, and I describe it also by saying it is on the way to Erongarícuaro. Oddly enough, it is a German restaurant, Campestre Alemán located in Arócutin just a short distance outside Eronga.

That´s the place I had in mind. A fun German restaurant with very good fresh trout. Can you imagine that? We were there all alone enjoying lunch and wondering how they survived out there when the tour buses pulled up, fortunately just as we were finishing our meal. Very good food, though, if you like trout.


356S90

Jun 5, 2010, 11:24 AM

Post #39 of 60 (6481 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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So granted, the OP is asking for subjective opinions; I get that. But to ask for subjective opinions about the "best" pizza Lakeside presumes, it seems to me, that there must be a good pizza Lakeside to which it can be compared.

There isn't, and I've been looking for going on 8 years. I have finally come to the realization that if I want a good pizza I have to either make it myself or wait until I take my annual summertime trip to the USA. Sad story, but there you are.

GA


Gringal

Jun 5, 2010, 12:18 PM

Post #40 of 60 (6459 views)

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Re: [356S90] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Goody. A chance to get pedantic.

If you line up anything (hot dogs, beauty contestants, pizzas) and ask which is "best" does not imply, per se, than any of the choices are "good".

We pizza-deprived souls here already know that a "good" pizza will most likely emerge only from our own ovens, but it's too dang hot to cook.............so we snatch at straws and hope somebody else on here knows something we don't.


Rolly


Jun 5, 2010, 1:26 PM

Post #41 of 60 (6449 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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It's no different where I live. The three main ones rank: marginal, poor and awful. Frozen pizzas from Soriana are not bad with some enhancements added.

Rolly Pirate


Hound Dog

Jun 5, 2010, 1:26 PM

Post #42 of 60 (6446 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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There is no such thing as good or even OK pizza at Lakeside. This does not imply that good pizza is not available in Mexico. San Cristóbal de Las Casas is not a good restaurant town by any stretch of the imagination but there are several great pizza joints many run by Italian immigrants.

There is no such thing as a great or even decent hot dog in Mexico I say in over 30 years of looking for one hereabouts. Not even close. Same for France where, believe it or not, the hot dogs are even worse than Mexico and damned expensive.

Anyone who would eat raw oysters or clams or mussels or the tasteless, phony and dangerous "sushi" in Mexico has a death wish to say nothing of no taste.

Mexican raised grass fed beef or normally lean and tasteless pork or, laughingly designated "ranch" chickens (bowling balls with legs) are virtually inedible unless onehas teeth that could be subbed out to a sawmill and a palate inclined to delight in the virtues of cardboard textures and taste.

The Mexican culture has even willfully killed the pleasure of the hand made tortilla for which it used to be famous. Today´s normal tortilliera turns out a commercial product not even close to its ancestors and, in Tuxtla Gutierrez - the capital of Chiapas and a huge and sophisticated city, 60% of the tortillerias there today use tainted masa and/or water and improperly cleaned equipment that can make you sick according to the local press.

In San Cristóbal de Las Casas, the "purified" water sold in 20 liter garrafones sold door-to-door there by an internationally reputable soft drink maunfacturer made thousands of consumers deathly ill from having ingested tainted water.

Stick to well-prepared tamales and then bear in mind there is enough manteca in a couple of tamales to kill a hog.

Or, better still, stick to roasted pistachios and XX Lager.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jun 5, 2010, 1:34 PM)


don pedro


Jun 5, 2010, 5:19 PM

Post #43 of 60 (6406 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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more spooting of nonscentcycle stough, bubinski. if mexican food is so bad as you continually post on this and other boards,how did you manage to become morbidly obese? i would suggest that your posts are entertaining, but factuality ain't yer strong suite. DOUBLE SNORK!
i say again-there ain't nothing wrong with dominos.
what californiacs have done to pizza is an abomination and i ain't jumping on that designer pizza bandwagon.
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!


Manuel Dexterity

Jun 5, 2010, 6:50 PM

Post #44 of 60 (6389 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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I had briefly considered sending you some fresh yellowfin next time we catch some but luckily your thread brought me back to my senses. I'll give it instead to the Cihuatlan Casa de Ancianos.

I have a few leftover cardboard boxes you are welcome too though. They're from France.


(This post was edited by Manuel Dexterity on Jun 5, 2010, 7:39 PM)


Hound Dog

Jun 5, 2010, 8:07 PM

Post #45 of 60 (6372 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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had briefly considered sending you some fresh yellowfin next time we catch some but luckily your thread brought me back to my senses. I'll give it instead to the Cihuatlan Casa de Ancianos.

I have a few leftover cardboard boxes you are welcome too though. They're from France.


Now, just a moment, Manuelito. You were going to send me some yelowfin detritus intended instead for the Cihuatlan de Ancianos but because I took the time and energy to spear the useless Pedro De Pozo negro AKA Lake Chapala you plan to send my treasure to a bunch of old geezers sitting around with their thumbs up their asses going, "Jeez, when do you think we´ll get another shipment of tuna bones and left-over lips from that putois Manuel Dexterity from Guadalajara?"






Hound Dog

Jun 6, 2010, 6:00 AM

Post #46 of 60 (6347 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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OK,OK, Ididn´t disparage Mexican food; just Mexican hot dogs, Mexican beef and pork and a few other things. Sorry, I did inadvertently forget to disparage the town of Chapala which seems to attract butt ulgy, undernourished bikers from the Frozen Tundra who cannot afford to live in the charming and quaint village just to the east where folks with taste prefer to settle.

Some good food in Mexico:
* Exquisite Chiapas style tamales (no, the Chiapanecos were not so enraptured of Manuel´s Jalisco style tamales that they forgot to plant the corn after eating them)
* Birria made with lamb or goat as presented by Chololo 4
* Herradura Tequila Blanco
* XX Lager and tacos a la mode de dawg
* Great seafood from Veracruz and Mérida including excellent conch in Mérida. Too many dishes to recap
* Various Yucatecan style dishes from the peninsula that I rate as having the best regional food in Mexico
* Various home cooked meals enjoyed with friends in Oaxaca (but skip most of the restaurants printing their menus alternatively in English - a bad sign)

and much more including, I am sure, that yellowfin tuna Manuel will now not be sending the Dawg.

NOTE: There is NO good food in the town of Chapala which is the reason a certain redneck biker living there is so diminutive he can´t visit the lake shore in even the slightest breeze for fear of losing his footing. According to that geeezer, he is, however, a local hero for having tricked a number of Chapalans into slave labor camps on the tundra.

NOTE; There are many really good places to eat in the state capitals of Guadalajara and Tuxtla Gutierrez for all kinds of food favored by locals. Now, this is strictly my opinion but I find it interesting that in reputedly sophisticated smaller cilies near those two big cities (San Cristóbal and Chapala municipalities) the restaurant food, whether local or overweeningly foreign in nature, is almost universally insipid and lacking in interest. The reason: too many foreign tourists (San Cristóbal) or geezer yokels from the U.S. midwest (Lakeside).

Yes. I know that Dawg is also a geezer type yokel so no need to post that fact in retaliation to my impolitic posting.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jun 6, 2010, 7:01 AM)


Hound Dog

Jun 6, 2010, 7:22 AM

Post #47 of 60 (6320 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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how about Pizza around here?


Getting back to pizza at Lakeside.

We don´t eat out often but last night we were late getting back to Lakeside from a tiring trip to pick up our car from a taller and were not up to cooking so we stopped off at a well-known European-style pizza joint in Riberas and it seemed a fortuitous choice with outside, garden seating on a particularly hot Chapala spring night when we had suffered through debilitating 35 degree weather in the city. The staff and owners could not have been more gracious so we were congratulating ourslves on our decision.

We ordered their one size but half and half plus what they called a Sicilian salad. The pizza was one half a Mediterranean style pie with capers and anchovies and tomatoes and oregano among other things and the other half was a gorgonzola tomato combination.Since it was so hot and we were exhausted, this pizza and the accompanying salad were meant to be light and refreshing.

Well, the pizza was OK and the Sicilian salad was, indeed, refreshing if a bit Americanized, but the meal was a bit unsatisfying. Rather tasteless, actually, in comparison to the always scrumptious and challenging wood-fired oven pizzas cooked up by neighborhood joints all over San Cristóbal de Las Casas so - why is that?

I think it is because, at Lakeside, even a pizza prepared in a thin-crust European style, has been purposely toned down in flavor to please the predominant Midwestern American and Canadian palate chefs find around here. Our Mexican friends prefer Dominos with catsup and we cannot use them as a gauge of quality so here is what we think is a solution to this conundrum. Do not eat pizza at Lakeside unless you make it yourself.


Gringal

Jun 6, 2010, 8:35 AM

Post #48 of 60 (6301 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Dawg:" I think it is because, at Lakeside, even a pizza prepared in a thin-crust European style, has been purposely toned down in flavor to please the predominant Midwestern American and Canadian palate chefs find around here."

How the heck can you figger where people are from when most of the license plates read "South Dakota"?

Now, when you say it's been "toned down"........let's get to the nitty gritty of the matter. What's been "toned down?" The hot flavors? The garlic? What? As far as I'm concerned, fire breathing ingredients are not the secret to memorable flavor. Unless heartburn is a turn-on for ya.

The best pizza I've had at Lakeside was from the little crepe place that closed last year. I think the chef was from your second neck of the woods in San Cris. Now, the question is this: What made his pizzas so good? And is this the real problem with most restaurant pizzas around here?

At the risk of hearing all sorts of irrelevant patter about Canadians and South Dakotans, I suggest the following:
That pizza was made with such fresh ingredients that the garlic was singing Rossini. The marinara sauce didn't emerge from a can or bottle. The cheese was the real deal. The olive oil wasn't doubling as engine lubricant. And so on.
Therein, IMO, lies the problem with local food. Ingredients. Some joint serves up a giant greaseburger slathered with second-rate goo and served up with fries in grandfather's original cooking oil for around 50 pesos and the locals think they're getting something special. This stuff isn't "toned down" for local taste. It wasn't made with good stuff to begin with.


tashby


Jun 6, 2010, 9:15 AM

Post #49 of 60 (6284 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Quote
the locals think they're getting something special.


SHAZZAM! I think we've stumbled upon the core truth.

Call it toned down, dumbed down, or "lazy-ed down". If the masses are happy with mediocre, middle-of-the road food, why would a restauranteur be motivated to bust his or her hump to do any better? Doesn't matter if it's Thai, Pizza, a Burger or a Tamale.

Restaurant goers, like voters, get what they deserve. We're doomed.


(This post was edited by tashby on Jun 6, 2010, 9:18 AM)


Gringal

Jun 6, 2010, 9:25 AM

Post #50 of 60 (6275 views)

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Re: [tashby] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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You're probably right, Tasby, and it goes along with so many other things we buy, from automobiles to clothes, to food.
It used to be called "pride of workmanship".

I fondly remember the German immigrant who had a sausage shop on my corner waaay back when: you walked in, got a big smile and he'd say "Try this" and hand you a slice of whatever. When you said "good", you got another huge grin. There was no baloney in his bologna.
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