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Gringal

May 27, 2010, 10:06 AM

Post #1 of 60 (12046 views)

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BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Moving on from burgers: Other than what you can cook up yourself from scratch, how about Pizza around here?

I used to love Toscana (the yellow house), but unless it's just me, the quality seems to have slipped in the last few months.

Personal preference: Chewy crust, neither crackery or pie-like.


(This post was edited by Gringal on May 27, 2010, 10:10 AM)



Peter


May 27, 2010, 11:55 AM

Post #2 of 60 (12012 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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I'm with you, chewy crust. I can never seem to attain that quality in my own pizza crusts though. What is the secret?


Gringal

May 27, 2010, 1:10 PM

Post #3 of 60 (11995 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Here's the answer: Augmented Pizza. Get a couple of Domino's on a twofer with minimal topping.
Put your own good stuff on it. With enough mozzarella, you have a tasty treat with a semi-chewy crust. The only good thing about Domino's is the sort of good crust.


don pedro


May 27, 2010, 3:39 PM

Post #4 of 60 (11974 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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yes,dominos! don't like a hard crust.
i get them to put pepperoni,bacon[breakfast, not back or canadian as you yanquis like to call it even though it's a brit thang],mushrooms and onion on top of the cheese. the crust is the closest thing to mi amigo tony's in edmonton. the way he get's a perfect crust is by chucking it up in the air and spinning it until it is just right. dominos could use a little more oregano basil and garlic in the sauce but what the haitch!
toscana refused to put the ingredients on top of the cheese no matter how many times i asked so a soggy hot mess ensued.
i didn't like his crust and had to bring my own bacon.
3 strikes and yer out.
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!


chinagringo


May 27, 2010, 3:57 PM

Post #5 of 60 (11970 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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We received a new cookbook the other day from FOOD & WINE. In breezing through it reviewing some of the recipes, I noticed a recipe for SQUID PIZZA. Now that strikes me as something I would not even try as a food adventure!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Rolly


May 27, 2010, 4:22 PM

Post #6 of 60 (11962 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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I have eaten a lot (too much) raw squid in sushi bars, but I have never tried it cooked. It doesn't sound right for pizza. It's not even very good for sushi.

Rolly Pirate


esperanza

May 27, 2010, 5:01 PM

Post #7 of 60 (11948 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Calamari pizza is quite common--and quite delicious! The calamari (squid) can be sautéed or deep-fried for the topping. Google it, there are photos and tons of recipes.

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chinagringo


May 27, 2010, 5:23 PM

Post #8 of 60 (11942 views)

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Re: [esperanza] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Yes, I have consumed Calamari sauteed and found it to be fairly decent but deep fried ???? It simply doesn't sound appealing to this food junkie on pizza! Then again, here in New Mexico, they all think you need and enjoy green chili on your pizza. It comes as a real shock when one forgets to tell them to hold the green!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



tashby


May 27, 2010, 5:36 PM

Post #9 of 60 (11939 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Pizza. Barbecue. Chili.

The unholy trinity.

A few years ago, I came to the conclusion that these are the three staples of American Cuisine (don't start...) that cannot be effectively discussed because it's impossible to reach anything close to agreement. Personal preferences and POV play too large a role. They are the religion and politics of food.

That said!......

Last time I was at Toscana I was a bit disappointed, too. My preference leans toward thin crust, which is his style. On the pizza crust contiuum, I'd rather it trended toward too thin than some horrendously thick, Chicago-style muck. (Whoops!) Toscana is still a Godsend in this area and I remain loyal despite being a little disappointed last time.

The "new place" in Ajijic is, of course, Don Vito. The first time there I thought it was pretty great. But then on subsequent visits.....it seemed to take a very unfortunate dive. The family sure is great, and I love being able to walk to it. I'm hoping they'll regain their stride.

*sigh*

Why is consistency so hard in the restaurant business?

On the other tangent: I love calimari/squid in a lot of different ways, but I don't know why I'd put it on a pizza. In and of itself it's completely benign, flavorwise. I suppose if it's sauteed or grilled after having been infused with a great flavor it might be okay as a topping, but if it has been prepared that way, I'd rather eat it by itself than have it get lost on top of a pizza.


Gringal

May 27, 2010, 5:57 PM

Post #10 of 60 (11926 views)

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Re: [tashby] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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I can't really put my finger on what's wrong with Toscana, but I think the sauce is the problem. We did try Don Vito and it's a nice family, but the pizza.......not so good.

Calamari.....AKA Squid......is a nice deep fried treat as served on Fishermens' Wharf in Monterey. Chewy little rings. Otherwise, the "steaks" are good if beaten heavily before frying. The name "Calamari" was a good PR move. "Squid" isn't as lovable.

BTW: Costco is serving up shrimp pizza at the window. Not bad.


Manuel Dexterity

May 27, 2010, 6:01 PM

Post #11 of 60 (11921 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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The Costco pizzas are not bad at all. We will buy them uncooked and bake them at home after adding a few more toppings.

For those who like making pizza at home but don't like to bother with the dough just stop by your local bakery and order some bolillo dough. You can roll it out to the thickness of your liking.


jacqueandcarol

May 27, 2010, 6:15 PM

Post #12 of 60 (11911 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Same problem, never liked Toscana's pizza. This year tried Mi Pueblo pizza near church in Ajijic and across the street from Italio Hotel. We really like the crust which is thicker. Lot of ingredients. Last time there the server even brought us some Jicama beverages gratis. Yum.


esperanza

May 27, 2010, 6:33 PM

Post #13 of 60 (11902 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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The hands-down all-time best squid I ever ate was on the island of Crete. The sun was brilliant in the blue sky, the Aegean sparkled, and my friend and I were sitting on a dock, just next to a fishing boat. One of the fishermen asked if we were hungry. Of course. He served up a heaping plate of whole tiny baby squids, lightly battered and deep fried. He provided us with fresh Greek lemons to squeeze over the little squidlets and coarsely ground salt to sprinkle over the pile of them.

That was 17 years ago. I remember it as if it were today's comida.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Anonimo

May 28, 2010, 12:28 AM

Post #14 of 60 (11859 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Mix and knead dough ahead; cover and refrigerate before using, suggested a recent NY Times article. I haven't tried it. My home made pizza has the problem of pale crusts.
http://www.nytimes.com/...izza.html?ref=dining

We don't often eat pizza out in Mexico. Oaxaca had some very good pizza at Pizza Rústica.

Peter; have you tried D'Leña on Blvd García de León? I haven't . It struck me as snooty and overpriced.

There's "Tu Pizza", pizza a la leña, in Pátzcuaro, but haven't tried it.I've received mixed reports from friends who have.

Buen provecho,
Anonimo


Peter


May 28, 2010, 6:44 AM

Post #15 of 60 (11840 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Since I use my heavy-duty mixer to prepare bread and pizza dough in fairly large batches a good amount makes it to the refrigerator. That seems to help with flavor and consistency if the dough is a couple days old but it still does not produce the desireable "chewiness" I seek. I used to have a panadería next door and would get dough from them on occasion but their bolillos lacked that quality as well.

Buying dough was just a time saver as I have the necessary mixer to do it myself. I have experimented with more and less yeast, different grades of flour - though different flour grades here are not so commonly found. I have added gluten for more protein but still do not get the results I want. By adding more gluten, and more gluten, I have produced dough that is extremely difficult to work with and will produce a crust that is even more difficult to eat. It makes for a nice frisbee substitute that can be as dangerous as Odd Job's hat.


Manuel Dexterity

May 28, 2010, 7:15 AM

Post #16 of 60 (11830 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Again, ask a bakery if they will sell you a few kilos of the flour they use. It is typically a better quality than supermarket offerings.


Anonimo

May 28, 2010, 7:54 AM

Post #17 of 60 (11818 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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I use OPTIMA, by Harinera Guadalupana, or Sello Rojo TRADICIONAL with pretty good results. Certainly, there are others available that will work well.

Buen provecho,
Anonimo


Peter


May 28, 2010, 8:57 AM

Post #18 of 60 (11811 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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The house next door to mine, on the other side of town from where I currently stay in the Centro, has a full-on round oven panadería occupying its complete ground floor. It has just changed owners and part of a family from Santa Clara del Cobre that has operates a large bakery in that town is in the process of moving in with the intention of putting that long-inactive oven into high-gear. I've known these people for several years and welcome their arrival next door to me. I expect this will be an great opportunity to obtain some different harinas and techniques. Their Santa Clara bakery used leña to fire their oven, which imparts a great flavor to the product, so I am hoping they will continue to use the leña here instead of gas, if the oven design here will permit.

Anonimo, does that harina produce "chewy" pizza crust? I have searched the internet for a clue to that secret. Some say it all has to do with kneading the dough for extended time with a proper electric mixer. My heavy-duty mixer with dough hook should do the trick, if that is it, but so far that hasn't worked. You being a master baker, what words of wisdom can you impart? Is it kneading? moisture content? flour protein? type of yeast? type and/or amount of oil used?

A whole winter of baking pizza in an unheated house has produced some most excellent pizzas of various types, thin, thick crust, deep dish, etc., but "chewy" crust remains elusive.


simpsca

May 28, 2010, 9:18 AM

Post #19 of 60 (11801 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Could you tell us where this new panderia is located please?


La Isla


May 28, 2010, 9:40 AM

Post #20 of 60 (11785 views)

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Re: [Peter] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Peter, I know nothing about making pizza, but I was wondering if the kind of oven used to bake it could have some effect on the texture of the crust. Just a thought.....


esperanza

May 28, 2010, 9:54 AM

Post #21 of 60 (11783 views)

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Re: [Anonimo] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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In Reply To
Mix and knead dough ahead; cover and refrigerate before using, suggested a recent NY Times article. I haven't tried it. My home made pizza has the problem of pale crusts.
http://www.nytimes.com/...izza.html?ref=dining

We don't often eat pizza out in Mexico. Oaxaca had some very good pizza at Pizza Rústica.

Peter; have you tried D'Leña on Blvd García de León? I haven't . It struck me as snooty and overpriced.

There's "Tu Pizza", pizza a la leña, in Pátzcuaro, but haven't tried it.I've received mixed reports from friends who have.

Buen provecho,
Anonimo

We ate at De Leña with friends about a year ago. The food was disgusting, to put it bluntly. One dish we ordered was inedible. The pizza was made on a cracker-type crust and had no flavor at all. I would not go back.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Hound Dog

May 28, 2010, 11:02 AM

Post #22 of 60 (11768 views)

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Re: [esperanza] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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Since you guys stole this "Best Pizza at Lakeside" thread and moved it over to Michoacan, Dawg will now proceed on down the road far to the southeast and we find ourselves in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas, the famous old colonial city which has a large Italian colony residing thereabouts and several great pizza joints including some with wood fired ovens serving up the best imaginable thin crust pizzas. Fine stuff the equal of which Dawg has yet to find at Lakeside.


Peter


May 28, 2010, 11:07 AM

Post #23 of 60 (11763 views)

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Re: [La Isla] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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  ...wondering if the kind of oven used to bake it could have some effect on the texture of the crust.
___________

Termperatures and heat intensity all have an effect on textures. I would love to get a pizza oven with the multi-levels so I could finish-off the pizza with a higher intensity to get a more desired browning in the final stage. Those short and wide doors that open the various levels limits to pizzas, pies, and flat items what you are able to do with the oven. I guess they would be alright for trays of pan and other breads, but not a turkey.

Those traditional round ovens used here limit their versatility, somewhat, but are great for Mexican pan. I have spent a few all-nighters helping put out the bolillos and telera rolls when my friend was short-handed. I got pretty good at making teleras; a ball of dough in each hand, plop them on the table and spread out the fingers to flatten and give them shape, then take a copper pipe and roll and apply pressure to set the grooves to give the teleras their three-hump top side. The usual order was for 500 ready for early morning, then after a long break start the pan dulce for afternoon delivery. The head baker was a real artist to get those different shapes, cuernos, conchas, novias, etc. He did those so quickly and with such style. I could never quite get the hang of it like him.

We used gas to fire the oven inserting a long, intense torch for 20-30 minutes and the heat would remain long enough to bake most of our order, baking and preparing the next batch and so on, but would generally need to torch it up just a bit after several hours in order to finish the run.

To answer another question, that panadería is in Morelia. It has not yet re-opened but Luis has been using leña to ramp up the oven after long period of non-use; that needs to be done gradually over time to prevent damage before starting production. That is typically done with leña even if they intend to use gas for production - it still helps impart flavor. Luis has been too busy getting moved in to talk with him much right now but has given every indication he intends to start production soon.

That house has the large bakery below but has no place for a tienda so will be just a production and distribution site. My house next door has the cochera situated to make a great store front and is on a corner. My friend who is co-owner of the house and our compañeras want to get into food production/restaurant activities - he mostly want to rotisserie chicken, and Tere would like to operate a cocina/fonda. I have been encourages to do something with my "gringo-ized" dishes but my visa doesn't permit me to work. Still, everything seems to be poised to start some food venture. I may just have to step back and let it happen. Tere has learned many of my recipes already. I can be a good customer.

Sorry, wrong lake. I don't mean to dominate this geographical forum, but for good food discussions, well, I often come here because of one of the most critical food critics is here. Nice place for discussion.


Gringal

May 28, 2010, 11:10 AM

Post #24 of 60 (11763 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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A bit far to go for a good pizza, dawg.

Here's stealing it back. My OP was about the best pizza you don't make in your own kitchen from scratch, and the next thing ya know.........it's over in Michoacan, in bakeries looking for dough, and now........all the way to San Cristobal.

C'mon folks: anybody want to recommend a local pizza parlor not yet covered?


Hound Dog

May 28, 2010, 11:22 AM

Post #25 of 60 (11758 views)

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Re: [Gringal] BEST PIZZA LAKESIDE

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bit far to go for a good pizza, dawg.

Here's stealing it back. My OP was about the best pizza you don't make in your own kitchen from scratch, and the next thing ya know.........it's over in Michoacan, in bakeries looking for dough, and now........all the way to San Cristobal.

C'mon folks: anybody want to recommend a local pizza parlor not yet covered?


Agreed, Gringal. I was just having some fun with the small city to our east that we know, from past accolades posted by denizens of that place, is certainly the most cultured place in Mexico and now has pizza to die for in a central plaza beautiful beyond compare in all of Latin America. As for pizza here in the Ajijic area, we have not been back from Chiapas long enough to try the local pizza currently being served up at Lake Chapala. We would really like to hear from those who favor super thin crust pizza with a European flair.

And, Peter, I am enjoying your discourse on pizza so understand I am just kidding.
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