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Manuel Dexterity

May 16, 2010, 8:04 PM

Post #26 of 37 (6125 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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Junkies wouldn't have to mug people to fund their needs.

They might indeed still mug people to fund their needs. Legalizing drugs won't make drugs free, nor will it make junkies upstanding citizens. If a junkie doesn't have money for their next fix, do you really think legalizing drugs will keep them from mugging someone? I'd venture a guess that some people are mugged by someone looking for money for more alcohol, as well.


How many alcoholics mug people for a 6 pack?


sioux4noff

May 16, 2010, 8:09 PM

Post #27 of 37 (6123 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] This has got to stop.

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How many alcoholics mug people for a 6 pack?


I don't know but I'm sure it happnes. Well, maybe not for a 6-pack, they could just pan-handle for that. I am not at all informed about the price of drugs, but I'm just guessing that junkies spend more than the cost of a 6-pack at a time.


Hound Dog

May 16, 2010, 8:31 PM

Post #28 of 37 (6116 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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They might indeed still mug people to fund their needs. Legalizing drugs won't make drugs free, nor will it make junkies upstanding citizens. If a junkie doesn't have money for their next fix, do you really think legalizing drugs will keep them from mugging someone? I'd venture a guess that some people are mugged by someone looking for money for more alcohol, as well.

Great logic Sioux. What do you think is happening now with drugs being illegal and far more expensive than under Dawg´s legal drugs plan? In Dawg´s legal drugs plan, destitute druggies would qualify for free drugs distributed to them upon proof of penury. Drug addicts unable to cope and befouling the streets would be picked up by the cops and sent to free rehab facilities.This is so simple. As Jesus said about the poor Dawg will say about the drug addicted; they will always be amongst us no matter what legal obstacles you place before them. Learn to live with it and minimize the pain to the rest of us. Meanwhile, kill off the illegal drug trafficking young men find so enticing. Who do you think are losing their heads? Young and stupid warriors at the bottom of the ladder - easily replacable and a dime a dozen.


richmx2


May 16, 2010, 8:47 PM

Post #29 of 37 (6109 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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"Just guessing" is probably not the best foundation for a logical argument. I realize Mexico is a supplier, not a user of narcotics, so the parameters are different, but Portugal (where narcotics use has been decriminalized) and in Switzerland (where addicts receive narcotics through the medical system as long as they stay out of legal trouble) both crime and AIDS infection rates have dropped.

There probably are other types of crimes committed by users -- auto accidents, child neglect, etc. -- that just aren't counted as "drug related violence" but probably should be. Whether they would drop would be a total guess on my part, so I won't speculate.

It's hard to find examples of decriminalization or legalization of narcotics in user countries. Bolivia, which subsidizes the coca crop (and is starting to pay farmers to go out of production) is seeing a drop in "drug related violence". Alas, Sinaloa never received U.N. certification to grow poppies, like Turkey and the Australian state of Tasmania -- neither of which is known for a violence among the exporters.


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johnv

May 16, 2010, 9:16 PM

Post #30 of 37 (6100 views)

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Re: [sparks] This has got to stop.

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Two questions that sometimes cross my mind concerning Mexico's current situation is 1) How much of the problem is Mexican mentality, and 2) How come there weren't all these problems when the hippies were running the show prior to 1973. It's kind of like Muslims and Bhuddists and their mentalities.


Peter


May 16, 2010, 9:35 PM

Post #31 of 37 (6097 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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Legalizing drugs won't make drugs free, nor will it make junkies upstanding citizens.
___________

Not true. "Junkies" would no longer be criminals, and many drugs would be free.

Opiates are derived from the poppy, and crude forms of opium, sufficient to satisfy a hardcore addict, can be immediately taken and used straight from the plant, higher grades with only slightly more effort. It is a pity to see young people become opium addicts, but for "geezers" that are only living out their final years in chronic pain opium use offers relief and comfort that would allow many live more "normally" in their final years. Big Pharma cannot let that happen; in league with modern medicine "bloodletting" is no longer practiced, per se, but has been replaced by a similar practice done to the patient's wallet. Older folks, many with a bit of savings for that part of their life, are expected to drain their bank accounts for pain-relief while seeking comfort in their final years.

Marijuana is the hemp plant that grows just about anywhere and has many industrial uses beyond being a mostly benign recreational drug of choice. A backyard gardener would take pride in his personal crop and produce a sweeter, tastier plant that could be used to make a nice herbal tea rather than smoked if he could garden in the light of day rather than behind closed doors. It requires more of the plant to make a tea, which is now considered wasteful, and would probably be the healthier more preferred method for consumption if not banned. Incidently, the nickname "pot" comes from using for tea back in the days before everyone became so anal about it.

It is largely these industrial uses that threatened (and still threatens) other ingrained industries with large lobbying power that led to the all-out ban on the hemp plant initially.


(This post was edited by Peter on May 16, 2010, 10:16 PM)


sioux4noff

May 16, 2010, 10:14 PM

Post #32 of 37 (6083 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop.

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"Junkies" would no longer be criminals


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, and many drugs would be free.



Says who? And paid for by who, for whom and for how long?
I personally don't want my tax money providing free drugs. So maybe I'd just become a tax-sucking drug user instead of a tax payer.

I see comparisons to ending Prohibition, but I don't recall alcohol becoming free to users after Prohibition ended.


(This post was edited by sioux4noff on May 16, 2010, 10:17 PM)


Peter


May 16, 2010, 10:39 PM

Post #33 of 37 (6079 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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"Junkies" would no longer be criminals


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, and many drugs would be free.



Says who? And paid for by who, for whom and for how long?
I personally don't want my tax money providing free drugs. So maybe I'd just become a tax-sucking drug user instead of a tax payer.

I see comparisons to ending Prohibition, but I don't recall alcohol becoming free to users after Prohibition ended.


Without a law making it a crime he wouldn't be a criminal. He might or might not actually be a better person with drugs, but not a "criminal" unless engaged in other criminal activities.

Plants like hemp require very little upkeep, and for the price of water and potting soil they are "virtually free." Alcohol, requires a process that is much more costly in terms of time, energy, and resources to produce. It will never be free.

You currently use no drugs AT ALL? Coffee, wine? It is a personal choice to be a tax-sucker or tax-payer, but in reality we are both, it is the nature of our tax system to both utilize tax money and to pay it, no escaping doing either. Are you a pensioner living here in Mexico? If you are like me, in this part of my life I receive in cash "tax money" in a much greater amount than I am currently paying. Enjoy it!


sioux4noff

May 16, 2010, 10:47 PM

Post #34 of 37 (6074 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop.

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I understand now what you mean by the drugs would be free. Thinking of how easy it is to grow hemp, I guess I've never thought of a pot smoker as a junkie.
The part I managed to leave out in the last post was - if a junkie is currently unable to support his/her habit and is mugging people for the next fix, I don't see that person becoming a law abiding citizen just because their drug of choice is now legal. If they are stealing to feed a habit now, they will probably still be stealing to feed that habit even if it is a legal drug.
I am not familiar with a lot of drug users, but have never heard of anyone being a social heroin user (like a social drinker). Doesn't mean they don't exist, though.


Peter


May 16, 2010, 11:39 PM

Post #35 of 37 (6073 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] This has got to stop.

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I understand now what you mean by the drugs would be free. Thinking of how easy it is to grow hemp, I guess I've never thought of a pot smoker as a junkie.
The part I managed to leave out in the last post was - if a junkie is currently unable to support his/her habit and is mugging people for the next fix, I don't see that person becoming a law abiding citizen just because their drug of choice is now legal. If they are stealing to feed a habit now, they will probably still be stealing to feed that habit even if it is a legal drug.
I am not familiar with a lot of drug users, but have never heard of anyone being a social heroin user (like a social drinker). Doesn't mean they don't exist, though.


I do not like thinking of the pot smoker being a junkie, but by definition the law makes him so.

You are right that a heroin user is what is mostly referred to as a "junkie." The price of the product is insane and the addiction so profound it drives the user into doing "whatever it takes" to get his next fix. To make the poppy plant into heroin requires a process and is not "free" but neither does it require rocket-science and doesn't warrant the prices demanded on the street. However, the plant itself will render a suitable substitute, provided ample quantity, virtually free.

Long before drug prohibition people were using and getting hooked on opium products, some functioning in reasonable social fashion but others becoming consummed in the use of the drug and becoming less and less productive. The addiction to the opiates in use then was less intense and problematic than with heroin today which is a refinement that renders just the "finer aspects" of the opium drug. Incidently, heroin was initially conceived as a drug to assist in getting people off morphine addiction.

It is tragic for a young, healthy person to become addicted to opiates but it should be an option for an older person who is ailing. In that instance you would likely find a profound metamorphosis in a person that was just barely coping in agony beforehand to the extent of making them much more pleasant and social. For the hopelessly addicted youth I deem it preferrable to supplying his habit, and even a room or a cell to waste away his life into oblivion over the current system we have in place now.

There are more problematic drugs out there now, such as methamphetamine, but in a different legal environment would be much easier to deal with. I believe alcohol to be much more insidious a drug than for the acceptance it merits as a national pasttime. Pot is much more benign and the plant itself very beneficial, except to protected interests.


(This post was edited by Peter on May 17, 2010, 12:28 AM)


clariboe

May 21, 2010, 9:36 AM

Post #36 of 37 (5913 views)

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Re: [Peter] This has got to stop.

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Hear! Hear!


arbon

May 22, 2010, 4:04 PM

Post #37 of 37 (5791 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] This has got to stop.

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"This has got to stop"


But you can not stop!

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