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esperanza

May 14, 2010, 7:19 PM

Post #1 of 35 (6228 views)

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Photos of New INM Document FMM

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This is the front of INM's new FMM form. A friend arrived from the States this week and let me scan his FMM to show you what it looks like. Notice that the INM official checked 'tourist'. If our friend had wanted to come into Mexico with an FMM and then exchange the FMM for an FM-3 OR an FM-2, the boxes (second level from the bottom) that allow him to do that would have been checked.

This is the back of the new FMM form. You can see that it is good for 180 days. You can also see that the regulations governing the FMM for tourists and the FMM for people who want an FM-3 or an FM-2 are clearly delineated on this portion of the form.

I believe that Mexico calls this a "Multiple Immigration Form" not because it is good for multiple entries, but because the form itself has multiple uses.

Questions?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on May 14, 2010, 7:24 PM)

tashby

May 15, 2010, 8:55 AM

Post #2 of 35 (6142 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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I don't have any questions - other than what's a "cooperator"? - but I'm really impressed with how CLEAR and SIMPLE the form is. And an English version!

Over the years I must have filled out he old one a hundred times.....even so I always found it a little confusing each time I stared at it on an airplane.

I'm impressed.

Demonio

May 15, 2010, 9:21 AM

Post #3 of 35 (6127 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Seems that if you opt to have INM check off the "Visa for exchange for FM#", you may be only granted a 30 day stay. If so you'd better be sure that's what you wanna do and be ready to rock and roll. However, I assume you can apply for an extension if need be.

G

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

NEOhio1

May 15, 2010, 9:58 AM

Post #4 of 35 (6116 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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The best idea in this instance and FMM for an FM# within 30 days would to be sure that the extension box below the 30 day box is filled in iwth an additional 30 days...if you can talk the aduana into doing it...

mazbook1

May 15, 2010, 5:43 PM

Post #5 of 35 (6047 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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NEOhio1, It would be pretty difficult to talk the Aduana guys into any sort of extension for a Migración document. You had best be prepared to ask the Migración guys that issue the document into that extension.

NEOhio1

May 15, 2010, 9:21 PM

Post #6 of 35 (6003 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Sorry, wrong name, written in haste.

Demonio

May 16, 2010, 6:20 AM

Post #7 of 35 (5955 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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I don't think either of the two (certainly not aduana) are permitted to grant extensions. There appears to be a separate process for that at INM. Seems you can apply for an extension if needed, but it wouldn't make sense to ask for one upon issue of the FMM since you wouldn't know if you would even need on at that point. But, I'll ask in a couple of days and report the results here. Can't hurt to try.

G

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

(This post was edited by Demonio on May 16, 2010, 6:22 AM)

NEOhio1

May 16, 2010, 7:07 AM

Post #8 of 35 (5937 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Ok, the back of the form contains an original stay length square and an extension square. On this example the maximum days - 180 - has been written in the length of stay square and the extension square has been marked through precluding any extension because the maximum days are already allowed.

Since the new rules say if you intend to get an FM3 from this FMM form you must declare the intention and that only 30 days in the length of stay square shoudl be written. Thus you will have to execute your FM3 quickly. My suggestion would be to take the 30 days in the length of stay square and request 30 days in the extension square "just in case" yo need the extra time.

Demonio

May 17, 2010, 1:03 PM

Post #9 of 35 (5833 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Upon closer inspection, review and research (including this video), I do not believe someone who enters MX on a 180 day tourist FMM and intends to apply for an FM# during that time needs to make his/her intentions known to INM upon entry. The check box to convert your visa to an FM# (within 30 days) seems to apply to those who completed the process at a MX consulate abroad and were given a "365 day visa". Once they have that visa, they have a year to enter MX. Once they enter, they have 30 days to complete the "in country" part of the process. No where have I found that you need to declare your intent to apply for an FM# upon entry to MX. Just like before May 1, 2010, you can apply for an FM# at any time as long as you're legally in MX.

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

esperanza

May 17, 2010, 3:11 PM

Post #10 of 35 (5793 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Look on the backside of the form, third bullet down. Read that part. I believe that INM interprets that to mean that you have to declare your intention at the time you enter Mexico with an FMM--and that the FMM holder has only 30 days to apply for the FM-3 or FM-2.

I've been wrong before, though.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on May 17, 2010, 3:13 PM)

La Isla

May 17, 2010, 5:54 PM

Post #11 of 35 (5744 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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I wonder what will happen to people entering on an FMM who do not declare their intention of seeking an FM3 giving them permission to work in Mexico and who later find a job and need to convert the FMM to an FM3.....

NEOhio1

May 17, 2010, 8:55 PM

Post #12 of 35 (5709 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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I read it the way Esperanza does, which is why I would ask the fellow to put in an extended 30 days at least in the extension block, just in case I can't get it done in the original 30 days.

As for the work part I don't read that that is a consideration. If you are coming to just simply live here it appears you haave to declare it. That FMM has to be submitted when you apply for an FM3. If you came as a tourist and have more than 30 days and not a declaration of intent to FM3 then you might have to return to the border and get the right one...just would depend on your particular office interpretation.

La Isla

May 17, 2010, 9:08 PM

Post #13 of 35 (5702 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Quite a few people move to Mexico with the intention of looking for work (usually teaching English) and eventually getting an FM3, often with the help of the school that hires them. Thirty days does not give you that much time to get all that done. I realize that is not much of a concern to most people who post here, but it is something that concerns me.

mazbook1

May 17, 2010, 9:21 PM

Post #14 of 35 (5693 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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As La Isla says, this is going to be a MAJOR hassle for those coming to México on tourist visas (the new FMM with 180 days), and then deciding to get a job and stay in México. Especially for those deciding to work as English teachers or time-share salespersons and particularly for those looking for other legal, short-term employment. Hopefully, there will be some sort of "work around" to allow the INM offices to handle these folks.

This may even affect those wanting to volunteer regularly, as the regulations are now being interpreted to say that even those folks have to have an FM3 with a "work" permit type endorsement.

Still, there are LOTS of unanswered questions, so we'll just have to see how it all shakes out.

La Isla

May 17, 2010, 9:28 PM

Post #15 of 35 (5684 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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My concern isn't for myself, since I got my FM3 in 2007, but I am in regular contact with teachers, some here in Mexico, some of whom have their own schools or training programs, and others who are planning to move here in the near future to find work. I want to be able to help them with correct information about the changes, but, as mazbook1 suggests, all we can do for now is be patient and see how it all turns out (-: !

Demonio

May 18, 2010, 6:31 AM

Post #16 of 35 (5649 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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The 3rd bullet on the back of the form says: "For foreigners holding a visa enabling them to obtain an FM3 or FM2..." The video that explains how to fill out the FMM form says the same thing, but refers to it as a 365 day visa. That ain't me. I don't have a visa and I assume those who do obtained it at a MX consulate abroad as part of the FM# application process. And, since MX consulates are no longer permitted to issue FM#'s, these people must complete the process in MX and within 30 days. I can't find it written anywhere, forums aside, that you must declare your intent to obtain an FM# while in MX on a tourist FMM. What if you enter MX as a tourist with no intention of seeking an FM#, then fall in love with the place and decide to seek a more permanent status? I'll be reentering soon and will ask just to be safe. I'll report back here.

G

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

esperanza

May 18, 2010, 11:49 AM

Post #17 of 35 (5590 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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(A) The 365-day visa is either the FM-3 or the FM-2.
(B) Bullet #3 clearly states that you must declare your intention at the time you request the FMM. You can come in either as a tourist or as someone who will apply for the FM-3 or the FM-2 within 30 days.
(C) If you come in as a tourist, fall in love with Mexico, and want to apply for either an FM-3 or an FM-2, you have to go back to your country of origin and re-enter Mexico with an FMM designated to apply for the FM-3 or FM-2, not as a tourist.

As someone either up-thread or in another thread on a similar topic mentioned, (C) is true of most countries in the world. For example, a foreigner entering the USA on a student or tourist visa cannot change that visa to a visa seeking residency.

This is one of the biggest changes in the INM visa process.

I am, of course, willing to be wrong. I am not an INM official nor do I play one on TV.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

tonyburton / Moderator

May 18, 2010, 11:57 AM

Post #18 of 35 (5588 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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As someone either up-thread or in another thread on a similar topic mentioned, (C) is true of most countries in the world. For example, a foreigner entering the USA on a student or tourist visa cannot change that visa to a visa seeking residency.

That was me, and I continue to be amazed why people think Mexico should be more lenient in regards to migration policies than its neighbors, NAFTA partners, or other countries (even if perhaps it sometimes was in the past, especially in terms of enforcement). I consider it perfectly reasonable that people crossing Mexico's borders declare their intentions...

Tony

Peter

May 18, 2010, 2:22 PM

Post #19 of 35 (5561 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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I continue to be amazed why people think Mexico should...
___________

I continue to be amazed when moderators adopt a condescending tone when people have questions about big changes that no one really has definitive answers for yet.

Really, does anyone know with certainty yet that a person cannot fly into Mexico, fill out one of those tourist permit questionaires on the plane, get their 90-day (as was commonly given in the past, even when stated you only expected to be in Mexico 10 days or so) tourist permit upon arrival, and at some point go to the IMN office and request an actual visa? That was how I received my visa several years ago.

I know there have been some big changes and some things seem to have been spelled out in black and white, but there still is tons of confusion from all camps. You can point to something spelled out as such in the new regulations, but moderators on this board are still speaking of obtaining FM-3's, FM-2's, and such items that seem to no longer be part of the nomenclature of the new regulations.

Barely two weeks now in effect I am not entirely ready to throw out past practices when so much is still open to interpretation. As far as obtaining a visa while here on a tourist permit obtained in the past two weeks, I don't know that anyone has tried to do that yet. Does anyone know better?

esperanza

May 18, 2010, 4:29 PM

Post #20 of 35 (5529 views)

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Re: [Peter] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Peter, the FM-3 and FM-2 continue to be the abbreviated titles of 365-day visas, just as they always have been. "FM" simply means formato migratorio.

The only formato that has changed is the FM-T (formato migratorio turista), which no longer exists. That form, the photo of which is the original post on this thread, is now called the FMM (formato migratorio multiple).

Of course a person entering Mexico with the new FMM can request a time period of 30 days, 90 days, or up to 180 days. HOWEVER, the person entering Mexico must now declare upon receipt of the FMM whether he or she is entering Mexico as a tourist or with the intent of applying for an FM-3 or an FM-2. That is a huge change from the way INM has processed foreigners in the past.

I don't want to sound rude, but your experience of two years ago has no bearing at all on entering Mexico or applying for a different FM-status since this INM change became effective on April 30, 2010.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Rolly

May 18, 2010, 4:48 PM

Post #21 of 35 (5523 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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When you enter the country, you will be asked the purpose of your visit. As I count the FMM form, there are 25 possible categories. If you enter in category A and later decide you want to be a B, you must go to an INM office to request a change in status.

Does that mean if you enter as a tourist and decide you want to apply for an FM3, you will be allowed to change your status? Time will tell.

Rolly Pirate

Peter

May 18, 2010, 5:34 PM

Post #22 of 35 (5506 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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In Reply To

That was what I was getting at. It seems we're all reading it a bit different and even the INM people are still using old terminology to describe the new. You say there are 25 categories of FMM and that sounds about right. As I recall, the FM-1 was the application form for requesting the FM-2 Inmigrante or FM-3 Non-Inmigrante. My understanding is that those booklets, formats, have been replaced with a new card, new formato, and now are regarded as different categories of the new Formato Migración Multiple.

That seems to be a whole lot of nit-picking but seems the terminology is essential to understanding the new regulations. Most of us have been conditioned by the old regs and nomenclature to the point that more confusion has been added. Of course I may be as much if not more confused than anyone by it all as well.

You say, "Time will tell." I think that is the best advice to give anyone with the more difficult unresolved questions at this time.

In short of two weeks I have to start the process for the fourth and last renewal of my Non-Inmigrante. I am not changing status so it should be a breeze and I hope they will be comfortable with the new changes at the INM office. I will report my experiences on this board.

(This post was edited by Peter on May 18, 2010, 7:22 PM)

chinagringo

May 18, 2010, 5:36 PM

Post #23 of 35 (5504 views)

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Re: [Peter] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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While I would agree with you Peter on the lack of understanding of the new procedures recently put in place at INM and the fact that there is rampant speculation as to what it all means, however I would submit that Rolly (Moderator) is the most qualified to got through all of the "incoming" and give his best effort to give a final determination what it all means.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

wiloran

May 18, 2010, 5:56 PM

Post #24 of 35 (5490 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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In 5 weeks I'll be driving in with the intention of getting a working FM3. I have a lawyer who will be helping me, so I'll check with her for any last minute instructions and will post my experience after I arrive.

Demonio

May 18, 2010, 7:09 PM

Post #25 of 35 (5466 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Photos of New INM Document FMM

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Where (in an official INM location), pray tell, does it say someone entering MX "has to declare their intentions"? It's not in any document or website I've looked at. Please point me in the right direction. Don't get me wrong, for MX to require that would be totally reasonable - but where does it say that? Also, where does it say that if you enter on an FMM as a tourist, you need to exit MX and reenter in order to apply for an FM#? Others here have cited the third bullet on the reverse side of the FMM form as the source of this misinformation. It reads:

For a foreigner holding a Mexican visa enabling him to obtain an FM3 or FM2, this FMM vouches for his legal stay for 30 days as of entry. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that you exchange this FMM for an FM2 or FM3 immigration form within the time period indicated at the Regional Delegation of the INM closest to your residence. Otherwise you will be in an irregular situation and will be subject to sanctions provided for in the General Population Law. (note: the INM video explaining how to complete an FMM says the same thing, but refers to and shows a "365 day visa" - which is NOT an FM#).

If any of that means you have to declare your intentions or that one needs to exit and reenter if one changes their mind, you must have learned a different version of English than me. It's irresponsible to post dreamed up information.

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."

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