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sparks


May 9, 2010, 1:05 PM

Post #1 of 34 (6066 views)

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Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Having a conversation on another site about what do you do after 5 years on an FM2. I thought the only reason to have an FM2 was to become a citizen and you take a test after 5 years to accomplish this.

If you don't go for citizenship are there other options than continue on FM2 or go back to FM3. You certainly need a visa (and renew yearly) or a "green card"

What have I missed for 5 years

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre



Gringal

May 9, 2010, 1:32 PM

Post #2 of 34 (6049 views)

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Re: [sparks] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Someone will no doubt put out the final word on this but my understanding is that after 5 years on FM2, you go to an agency and declare yourself "immigrado"; you get something official and then are relieved of the burden to get either an FM2 or FM3 from then on. Either that, or you can apply for citizenship. As "immigrado" you can't vote.
You are also supposed to get rid of your foreign plated car.

The official word?


sparks


May 9, 2010, 1:38 PM

Post #3 of 34 (6045 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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So with this inmigrado you just carry a card and no more visa renewals ... but you are not a citizen. Hmmmm

Where would that leave you for owning land in the restricted zone

If that's right I missed it for 5 years ... and loosing a car seems like the only drawback or not

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


Rolly


May 9, 2010, 1:41 PM

Post #4 of 34 (6041 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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"...declare yourself "immigrado" Not quite like that. You make an application for inmigrado.

Rolly Pirate


esperanza

May 9, 2010, 2:35 PM

Post #5 of 34 (6020 views)

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Re: [sparks] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Rolly's right. After five years with an FM-2, you go to INM to apply for inmigrado status.

If you choose not to go that route, you do not have the option (as far as I know) to apply for a new FM-2. You either go back to an FM-3 visa, apply for inmigrado status at INM, or apply for citizenship at the SRE (Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores).

If your application for inmigrado status is approved, you will have all the rights and privileges of a Mexican citizen EXCEPT:
--you cannot vote
--you cannot hold office
--you cannot own a vehicle with foreign license plates
--you are not allowed to have a liquor license
--you are not allowed to run a brothel
--you are not allowed to own federal zone property without a fideicomiso (bank trust)

So nix on the idea of that converting that California-plated school bus into a rolling bar and house of ill repute.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Gringal

May 9, 2010, 3:02 PM

Post #6 of 34 (6010 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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I didn't put that right. You apply for "immigrado" status, just like Rolly said.

Geez, Esperanza.............you mean you can't do any of that fun stuff. I was picturing Sparks parked in the old school bus cum brothel and bar on his beach spread, having the time of his life. Well, dang.


(This post was edited by Gringal on May 9, 2010, 3:04 PM)


eyePad

May 9, 2010, 3:39 PM

Post #7 of 34 (5998 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Esparanza , I did not completely understand all of your bullet points

--you cannot own a vehicle with foreign license plates

This is true for citizens also, right?

--you are not allowed to run a brothel

Is this legal for a citizen? In what areas?

--you are not allowed to own federal zone property without a fideicomiso (bank trust)

What is the federal zone? you mean distrito federal? Or do you mean zona restringida?


esperanza

May 9, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #8 of 34 (5987 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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In Reply To
Esparanza , I did not completely understand all of your bullet points

--you cannot own a vehicle with foreign license plates

This is true for citizens also, right? RIGHT

--you are not allowed to run a brothel

Is this legal for a citizen? In what areas? YES, anywhere it is legal for any Mexican to run a brothel

--you are not allowed to own federal zone property without a fideicomiso (bank trust)

What is the federal zone? you mean distrito federal? Or do you mean zona restringida? ZONA RESTRINGIDA


http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on May 9, 2010, 4:27 PM)


Rolly


May 9, 2010, 5:32 PM

Post #9 of 34 (5968 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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I can't operate a brothel when I get my inmigrado??? I'm crushed. Just this morning I read in the paper that there are 138 registered sex workers in the Municipality of Lerdo. What a wonderful opportunity for a series of discrete brothels in the city and in the larger outlying villages. Oh well. I can always use the ore from my brass mine to make spark plugs for diesel engines.

Rolly Pirate


bournemouth

May 9, 2010, 5:34 PM

Post #10 of 34 (5963 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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You made me laugh - thanks Rolly!


Maesonna

May 10, 2010, 5:54 AM

Post #11 of 34 (5897 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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You also can't hold a Mexican passport on inmigrado status, right? You'd have to get Mexican nationality.


Marel

May 10, 2010, 6:45 AM

Post #12 of 34 (5879 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Right, you can't hold a Mexican passport on immigrado status. I still have my old FM2 book and I still need to check in and out when traveling from Mexico. I'm waiting to see what happens with the new rules - and laminated cards. The ID card has been available for years to those with immigrado status but one had to go to DF for the card. I have two pages left in my book - in the past if you ran out of pages you had to apply for a new book - didn't affect your status at all. Haven't checked the website with new rules to see if anything is mentioned - if I can obtain the card in Guad. And my immigrado application, at least 3 1/2 years ago, also went thru SRE in Mexico for final approval.


Gringal

May 10, 2010, 8:29 AM

Post #13 of 34 (5845 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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I'm dazed and confused, so to speak. So, once I get my Immigrado status, which would mean my old FM2 card would be inactive (dead), and I wanted to travel on a Mexican passport........what steps would be taken at that point?


Rolly


May 10, 2010, 9:19 AM

Post #14 of 34 (5826 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Citizenship. Only citizens can get passports.

Rolly Pirate


esperanza

May 10, 2010, 9:22 AM

Post #15 of 34 (5823 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Gringal, you cannot get a Mexican passport until you are a Mexican citizen. Inmigrado status entitles you to just that: inmigrado status, not citizenship. You receive a document (card or booklet, the rules have changed and I don't know which it is now) showing that you are an inmigrado. For travel in Mexico, you would use that document as proof of residency. You would use your US passport as official ID, because you are still a US citizen.

For travel outside Mexico, you would need to talk with your INM representative about what kind of travel documents you need to LEAVE Mexico. To enter another country, you would use your US passport.

As a Mexican citizen, you do not automatically receive a Mexican passport or other documents identifying you as a Mexican citizen. You receive a Carta de Naturalización--letter of naturalization, and very nicely presented--from SRE. With that official document, you can then go to an SRE passport office and apply for a passport. You can go to IFE to apply for a credencial de elector--a voter's card, which is currently the main form of official identification in Mexico. Once you are a Mexican citizen, the credencial is what you need to present any time you are asked for ID.

Once you have applied for, paid for, and received your Mexican passport, that is your exit document if you are traveling outside Mexico. You will also have your US passport; that US passport is your ENTRY document for going into the USA. For entering any other country, you would use your Mexican passport. For returning to Mexico, you would also use your Mexican passport.

The first time I traveled to the USA after becoming a Mexican citizen, I handed my Mexican passport to the young man at the GDL airport ticket counter when he requested my travel documents. He insisted that I needed other papers--an FM-3, etc. I assured him that I was a Mexican citizen--look, you're holding my passport! Here's my credencial! He finally understood and said, "I've never seen anyone like you before!". I've never been questioned since, not at any airport.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on May 10, 2010, 9:24 AM)


Gringal

May 10, 2010, 9:54 AM

Post #16 of 34 (5810 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Since you have been through the process, Esperanza, please tell how fluent you must be in Spanish to acquire citizenship. My own learning process has been slow....I think I'm doing okay until I say something in Spanish. I guess my accent isn't too bad, because the person I'm speaking to responds in rapid fire Spanish and I have to throw up my hands in despair and revert to Spanglish. Sometimes it's funny. Sometimes discouraging. I'm still learnin'.

I will have to admit that I acquired French a lot faster as a teenager than I'm acquiring Spanish in my dotage.

How difficult in the test? Is it written or oral? How thoroughly grounded in Mexican history must one be?


rockydog85251

May 10, 2010, 10:11 AM

Post #17 of 34 (5801 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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The first and only time so far, that I travelled by air from Mazatlan (2 yrs ago) after getting my citizenship, the people at the check in counter wanted ONLY my US passport....they said otherwise, I would have had to have an visa allowing me entry into the US.
They would/could not accept my Mexican passport here - or at least they claimed they couldn't. It made me quite nervous to be presenting myself at the ticket counter in Mexico as a US citizen! It all worked out at that time but I'm not sure about the future, since things have changed so radically now.

Any other current experiences with air travel?
Willie


Demonio

May 10, 2010, 10:55 AM

Post #18 of 34 (5769 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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For Mexican citizens with one or more citizenship in other countries, Mexican law requires that while in Mexico you shall first identify yourself as a Mexican citizen. How this would be enforced is beyond me, but it's the law. I came across that cause I'm considering retaining my FM3 as a U.S. citizen (to maintain an imported vehicle) and obtaining Mexican citizenship (as a birth right since I have Mexican born parents) as well. I figure they will never connect the dots. But, honestly I'm getting a bit squeamish about it now.


"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."


esperanza

May 10, 2010, 11:20 AM

Post #19 of 34 (5751 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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In Reply To
The first and only time so far, that I travelled by air from Mazatlan (2 yrs ago) after getting my citizenship, the people at the check in counter wanted ONLY my US passport....they said otherwise, I would have had to have an visa allowing me entry into the US.
They would/could not accept my Mexican passport here - or at least they claimed they couldn't. It made me quite nervous to be presenting myself at the ticket counter in Mexico as a US citizen! It all worked out at that time but I'm not sure about the future, since things have changed so radically now.

Any other current experiences with air travel?

The people who talked to you at the check-in counter in Mazatlán were wrong. If they required your US passport in order for you to leave Mexico, you would also have to have documentation (a tourist card, an FM-3, or an FM-2) that would have allowed you to be in Mexico in order to then LEAVE Mexico. As a Mexican citizen, you do not have and do not need (and are not entitled to) that kind of immigration document.

Remember that once you are a Mexican citizen and while you are in Mexico, your US citizenship is no longer valid. In other words, you are no longer entitled to show proof of US citizenship for any reason: you are a Mexican. You are not entitled to services from a US consulate in Mexico: you are a Mexican. You are not entitled to show a US passport as an exit document when leaving Mexico: you are a Mexican. However, because you are also a US citizen, you do not need a visa to re-enter the USA.

You simply have to tell the airline check-in personnel that you have dual citizenship and that you will ENTER the USA on a US passport. If they ask for proof of that, show them your US passport--but do not use it as your exit document! It's only your ENTRY document to the USA.

When you are ready to fly out of the USA to return to Mexico, you show your US passport at the airline check-in counter. When you arrive at your Mexican destination, you hand the immigration officer your MEXICAN passport.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









esperanza

May 10, 2010, 11:26 AM

Post #20 of 34 (5744 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Since you have been through the process, Esperanza, please tell how fluent you must be in Spanish to acquire citizenship. My own learning process has been slow....I think I'm doing okay until I say something in Spanish. I guess my accent isn't too bad, because the person I'm speaking to responds in rapid fire Spanish and I have to throw up my hands in despair and revert to Spanglish. Sometimes it's funny. Sometimes discouraging. I'm still learnin'.

I will have to admit that I acquired French a lot faster as a teenager than I'm acquiring Spanish in my dotage.

How difficult in the test? Is it written or oral? How thoroughly grounded in Mexican history must one be?

The fluency requirement can be better answered by someone else. I am native-level fluent and conducted all my in-person and telephone dealings with the SRE in Spanish, so they knew I could speak the language.

At the time I became a citizen, there was no test. Again, someone who became a Mexican citizen after the test requirement was instituted could better answer the question for you.

I do know that the test is written and that you have more than one chance to pass it if you fail it on the first go-around. You do need to be thoroughly grounded in both history and current cultural affairs, and you need to know at least two verses of the Himno Nacional (the national anthem)--and not the first two verses! Sr. Google can help you with that information.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









esperanza

May 10, 2010, 11:28 AM

Post #21 of 34 (5740 views)

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Re: [Demonio] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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For Mexican citizens with one or more citizenship in other countries, Mexican law requires that while in Mexico you shall first identify yourself as a Mexican citizen. How this would be enforced is beyond me, but it's the law. I came across that cause I'm considering retaining my FM3 as a U.S. citizen (to maintain an imported vehicle) and obtaining Mexican citizenship (as a birth right since I have Mexican born parents) as well. I figure they will never connect the dots. But, honestly I'm getting a bit squeamish about it now.

Demonio, when your Mexican citizenship is granted, you are required to hand over your FM-3. You don't have a choice.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Maesonna

May 10, 2010, 11:59 AM

Post #22 of 34 (5728 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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My understanding is that the airline's responsibility and, hence their concern, is to ensure that you are authorized to enter the other country where your flight out of Mexico is landing. So if you are flying to the US, they have to see the proof that you are authorized to enter the US. If you are a US citizen, that proof is your US passport.

It is for this reason that they insist on seeing your US passport when you are flying out of Mexico. Your Mexican passport doesn't tell them anything they need to know at this stage in your trip.

So if you are a dual, flying "home", you exit Mexico as a citizen of the other country, showing your other passport. When you return, you enter Mexico as a Mexican, showing your Mexican passport.


Manuel Dexterity

May 10, 2010, 12:08 PM

Post #23 of 34 (5724 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Esperanza is completely mistaken about dual citizens showing their US passports when flying to that country by air from Mexico. A Mexican citizen must prove they have the right to enter the US or they will not be allowed to board their plane. Since US citizens require no visa, anyone holding a US passport simply shows that as proof of legal entry.

I happen to know this because I have been dealing with it for the past 30 years, myself and all of my dual-citizen children. My kids are all adults now but still show their US passports when flying to or through the US.

Maesona posted basically the same info while I was writing my post.


(This post was edited by Manuel Dexterity on May 10, 2010, 12:14 PM)


Demonio

May 10, 2010, 12:13 PM

Post #24 of 34 (5723 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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In Reply To

In Reply To
For Mexican citizens with one or more citizenship in other countries, Mexican law requires that while in Mexico you shall first identify yourself as a Mexican citizen. How this would be enforced is beyond me, but it's the law. I came across that cause I'm considering retaining my FM3 as a U.S. citizen (to maintain an imported vehicle) and obtaining Mexican citizenship (as a birth right since I have Mexican born parents) as well. I figure they will never connect the dots. But, honestly I'm getting a bit squeamish about it now.

Demonio, when your Mexican citizenship is granted, you are required to hand over your FM-3. You don't have a choice.


Esperanza, I'm gonna try and obtain MX citizenship the easy way as described below by fellow member Casa. He seems to know what he's talking about and using this method, the MX govt. wouldn't even know I had an FM3.

"I just helped a friend with a similar situation. He father was Mexican and mother American and my friend was born in the US. He will be moving to Mexico and did not want to hassle with the FMs and immigration so he decided to go the Mexican citizen route. It was really quite simple.

All he needed was his apostiled long form original birth certificate. These usually list the place of birth of both parents. He then had to have it translated by a legal state translator. Then the 2 documents were submitted to the registry civil, in his case in Michoacán. Then received a Mexican birth certificate, listing his nationality as Mexicana, thus proving his Mexican citizenship and applied for his IFE and passport. End of story."



"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."


mazatman


May 10, 2010, 6:09 PM

Post #25 of 34 (5676 views)

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Re: [sparks] Senior five year moment on FM2?

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Hola!

1. So, after 4 years and 6 months of the FM-2 I apply for inmigrado status and am successful it obtaining it. Does this mean I cannot subsequently apply for citizenship while on inmigrado status? I'm thinking the inmigrado is a sure thing but the citizenship could be "iffy" for me with the language and knowledge tests. It might be nice to have the option of pursing citizenship after inmigrado status.

2. About having to get rid of the foreign plated car when you become a citizen. If a Mexican citizen can import a car and have it nationalized without too much of a problem (according to a Mexican I know, he claims to do this regularly as a part-time business) why could I not exit the country with my vehicle when my FM-2 runs out, turn in the sticker and then reenter importing the same car and have it nationalized after I obtain citizenship?

Please forgive if these questions have been dealt with previously.
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