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Hound Dog

Apr 24, 2010, 11:04 AM

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A New Paradigm

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We just in the last two days drove up from Chiapas to Jalisco and I´ll tell you this. In Southern Mexico things are becoming quite serious. We were not stopped one by military or federal police or immigration checkpoints in Mexico or the unsettled state of Michoacan but in Chiapas and Veracruz the military was on our ass and right behind them were the Federales with machine guns and they were prepared to blow you away in a minute if you were careless so thread ligtlly down there and worry about your dignity while you still have some to worry about.

Manuel Dexterity

Apr 24, 2010, 12:11 PM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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How is that word pronounced?

para-dime

para -di-gm

para- dig-m

Always wondered.

Rolly

Apr 24, 2010, 12:16 PM

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] A New Paradigm

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para dime

Rolly Pirate

Zorba

Apr 24, 2010, 1:47 PM

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Re: [Rolly] A New Paradigm

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Hound Dog

Apr 24, 2010, 2:51 PM

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Re: [Zorba] A New Paradigm

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It is worrisome that a new front on the southern border could open up. From what I have read in the local papers, there has been an increase in the number of troops on the southern border. There currently isn't much violence because it is practically a wide open border. However, if the government decides to clamp down like they have in the north, it could get messy.

There is currently a great deal of violence on the southern border with Guatemala, Zorba, and you and most people are simply misinformed. This violence which affects mostly Central Americans victimized by local Mexican law and immigration officials and their associated gangs of thieves, rapists and murderers is greatly underreported but it is an epidemic of the most horrible and bloodthirsty crime. Both male and female Central Americans are routinely raped, robbed murdered and assaulted with the complicity of Mexican officials. Central Americans trying to make their way to El Norte are even assaulted and killed by local indigenous Mexicans. Every mexican official on the border with Guatemala is corrupted or gone. Understand this if you wish to understand Southeastern Mexico. It is disgraceful.

There is nothing we can do about this but denying this criminal gangterism involving all levels of governmental authority from Federales to the army to local officials is to deny criminality of the worst sort. It is sickening.

Zorba

Apr 24, 2010, 11:20 PM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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I'm aware of the violence against immigrants, but I was referring to the type of drug violence that can be seen on the northern border.
All the pieces are in place for the same kind of violence in the south. The Zetas are there, the Maras are there, the corruption is there. The only difference is the government is not doing anything about it in the south. If they decide to, it will kick off. The drugs have to be passing through that border from Colombia.

But why don't they? Is it a sign of their complicity in the drug trade? Both local, federal police and local officials make money off that border. Is it that they are only paying lip service to the Americans in the north? Is it that America owns Mexico's ass so they have to do something in the north but not in the south? Is it a strategic move to funnel all the drug violence into one area? Is it that the government just could not handle opening another front? Only questions, but Mexico's southern border for sure is neglected and abandoned by the authorities. That may be a good thing though when one looks at the North.

Hound Dog

Apr 25, 2010, 10:50 AM

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Re: [Zorba] A New Paradigm

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I'm aware of the violence against immigrants, but I was referring to the type of drug violence that can be seen on the northern border.

First of all Zorba, allow me to say that, as I know you on the internet, I respect you and your opinions. Now, you may have some closet skeletons of which I am unaware but don´t we all. What I am about to say is no reflection upon you but I invite your response.

What is the more eggregious affront to the notion of human civility? The fraternal massacre of low-level drug runners and their crooked allies among the Mexican and U.S. beat cops and judicial and governmental elite or the raping and and murdering and pillaging of dirt poor Central American campesinos looked upon as swine by border control Mexican authorities and their allied gangs of thugs as those desperately poor folks try to make their way north from Central America to the land of dreams either in the fields of Puebla or the San Joaquin Valley neither of which they are likely to ever encounter.

What is happening along the Mexican/Guatemala border as corrupt governmental officials support their thuggish and vicious enforcers and gangster thieves is far worse than the highly publicized interfraternal slaughter among equally vile criminals along the U.S. Border. The only reason the northern fractracide seems worse than the southern exploitation of the Central American peasants is because the Northern aggression affects the precious United States and its citiizens´ endless thirst for illicit drugs.

Disgusting hypocrisy.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 25, 2010, 10:54 AM)

Zorba

Apr 26, 2010, 4:05 AM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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Youre absolutely right Dawg. I agree with you. Your post and title "A new Paradigm" however implies some sort of shift in the region in terms of security. Hence, my post referencing drug violence, not violence against immigrants. Unless you think that the increased enforcement is to help protect lowly immigrants against abuses.

It's certainly complicated. There are a lot of people making good money off those immigrants and the contraband that passes through that border. For the moment, everyone is happy except the immigrants (well, you and I don't like it either of course). Hence, a relative calm. If, however, the smuggling routes were to be disrupted or contested by the government we would likely see the same sort of shit as up in the north. It doesnt matter what is being smuggled (money, people, drugs). If the people who are benefitting from that border find their bread and butter threatened they will wreak some havoc. We dont have that yet because, as you pointed out, everyone is in on it and theyre happy with the status quo.

Tapachula did experience a bit of what is going on in the north a few years back but not to such an extreme. Home invasions increased, violent muggings and killings of locals increased. Mostly due to a surge in the presence of Mara. I had friends there who were ready to relocate because of it. However, things improved greatly after Hurricane Stan which wiped out the train from Tapa to Arriaga. After that the immigrants started bypassing Tapa and now go straight to Arriaga or cross into Tabasco. As a result, the Mara followed them and the increase in violence in Tapa dissipated.

The hypocrisy is thick indeed. I always think of it when I hear Mexico complain about the treatment of Mexican immigrants on the northern border.

Hound Dog

Apr 26, 2010, 5:54 AM

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Re: [Zorba] A New Paradigm

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Tapachula did experience a bit of what is going on in the north a few years back but not to such an extreme. Home invasions increased, violent muggings and killings of locals increased. Mostly due to a surge in the presence of Mara. I had friends there who were ready to relocate because of it. However, things improved greatly after Hurricane Stan which wiped out the train from Tapa to Arriaga. After that the immigrants started bypassing Tapa and now go straight to Arriaga or cross into Tabasco. As a result, the Mara followed them and the increase in violence in Tapa dissipated.

Who´s to say there is no God or, as they say in Alabama, "GAUWWWWD!) who finally got fed up with the "Train of Death" starting in Tapachula and sent the starting point north to Arriaga. They must have pissed him/her/it off up there near the Oaxaca border.

Most folks in Mexico don´t know this but that mostly (I believe) ranching country in the Tierra Caliente between Tapachula and Tonalá is a very pretty and bucolic land of pleasant hills between the sea and magnificent, largely uninhabited mountains which have a number designated biospheric reserves some of which have rain forest micro-climates which are difficult to access but supposedly splendid to visit. During our first three years in San Cristóbal we were either too busy reconstructing that ruin we bought there or visiting the areas of Eastern Chiapas from the Lagos de Montebello to Palenque and ignored the Soconusco since it is less well regarded among tourists. When we finally got around to exploring that region we were blown away at its attractions from Tacaná to the Oaxaca border. One of the things that makes it so nice is its isolation so don´t let anyone in on our secret.

By the way, forgive me for using that ostentatious word, "paradigm", which was an affectation unworthy of the hick Dawg showing off with one of the few fancy words he knows. Shameless and the subject of one of Manuel Dexterity´s verbal jabs at your humble poster.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 26, 2010, 6:01 AM)

Hound Dog

Apr 26, 2010, 6:06 AM

Post #10 of 15 (6476 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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By the way, Zorba, I have failed to say that I agree with you that the migration of the Zetas south to Guatemala bodes poorly for Chiapas and we share your anxiety about that trend. Law enforcement and state administrative control in that region is already weak and, in Chiapas, peace seems to be maintained mostly by compromises among a complex web of warring factions. A shift in the drug wars could spell trouble.

Zorba

Apr 26, 2010, 9:54 AM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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Thanks for the reply Dawg. It's an interesting topic. The area is pretty nice, but missing the colonial. Soconusco is definitely weak in that regard. At least San Cristobal is only a few hours away. The heat can be a bother too but personally I think it is good for one's health. The advantage is the proximity to the ocean. I have been told the area is some of the most fertile land on the planet and the most diverse as well.

As far as security goes, we shall see. https://nacla.org/node/5406

I have read that the Zetas have always had a connection to Guatemala because they have recruited Kaibiles there. https://nacla.org/node/6152

The Maras would make convenient street level thugs for them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfWvgnByUE

Zetas and local Tapa officials arrested:

http://www.tabascohoy.com.m/nota.php?id_nota=174245

Borders are always dicey I guess. Oh well. You're wise for having chosen the area you are in it would seem. Surely it has its own problems but sounds like the locals wouldn't permit anybody to take over and wreak havoc up there.

(This post was edited by Zorba on Apr 26, 2010, 10:42 AM)

Hound Dog

Apr 26, 2010, 2:33 PM

Post #12 of 15 (6422 views)

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Re: [Zorba] A New Paradigm

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The area is pretty nice, but missing the colonial. Soconusco is definitely weak in that regard. At least San Cristobal is only a few hours away. The heat can be a bother too but personally I think it is good for one's health. The advantage is the proximity to the ocean.

Yes; it seems to me that the Soconusco, which in olden days, was not a part of what became the Chiapas state of Mexico but which had been a part of the Guatemala Federation until Chiapas voted (among an elite not including the indigenous) to become a part of the new Mexican Federation but these are complex issues best not discerned unless one wishes to become apprised of the mass murder that accompanied colonization. The ignorance regarding the incorporation of Chiapas into the Merxican Federation is best left at peace unless one wishes to become sick at one´s stomach.

Zorba

Apr 26, 2010, 4:43 PM

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Re: [Hound Dog] A New Paradigm

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Are you aware of the Soconusco seperatists? They want their own state. I don't know if that would be a good or bad thing.

Hound Dog

Apr 26, 2010, 5:22 PM

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Re: [Zorba] A New Paradigm

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Are you aware of the Soconusco seperatists? They want their own state. I don't know if that would be a good or bad thing.

I don`t know, Zorba. There are lots of separatists all over the state of Chiapas and that is not so hard to understand in a state that is defined by such a rugged terrain with such startling variations in topography from dense jungles to highland forests to hot coastal plains all of which are distinct from one another. The Soconusco regional capital of Tapachula in the Tierra Caliente and the crass but, in my opinion, extraordinarily attractive state capital of Tuxtla Gutierrez in the Chiapas Depression and the highland ancient colonial capital of San Cristòbal de Las Casas and the equally ancient towns of Ocosingo and the jungle capital of Palenque are all marvelous places but with little in common.

Heaven on earth but, as with most beautiful places Dawg has experienced, troubled and unsettled. That is an important part of its charm.

But you know this or you would not have invested in a ranch there on the coastal plain.

We are pleased to be back at Lake Chapala but only in the context of having spent the past few months in Chiapas. Life is about variety as long as one can handle it.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Apr 26, 2010, 5:24 PM)

roni_smith

Apr 27, 2010, 6:32 PM

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Re: [Rolly] A New Paradigm

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It is part of a Depression-era song, as in

Sister can you pare a dime.
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