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tashby


Apr 21, 2010, 10:25 AM

Post #1 of 32 (8986 views)

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Do you "¿Mande?"

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The use of mande? is so common. I was having a conversation with a friend last night and told him I just wasn't comfortable using it since I'm not from Mexico. (He's Mexican.)

He told me I was nuts.

So what do you all think? Do you "¿Mande?". Am I nuts?



Peter


Apr 21, 2010, 10:34 AM

Post #2 of 32 (8977 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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I picked up using "¿Mande?" a long time ago. I was told it was very polite. It sounds a whole hell of a lot better than, "¿Qué?"


(This post was edited by Peter on Apr 21, 2010, 10:49 AM)


Reefhound


Apr 21, 2010, 11:32 AM

Post #3 of 32 (8969 views)

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Re: [Peter] Do you "¿Mande?"

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I agree about the "¿Qué?" at least, that seems to be what my wife always says when I tell her I'm going diving on the weekend when she had a bunch of honey-do's lined up for me. Oh she heard me just fine the first time, she just wants to see if I dare say it again!!!


La Isla


Apr 21, 2010, 12:41 PM

Post #4 of 32 (8957 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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For the longest time, I had trouble letting "¿Mande?" come out naturally, so I usually ended up saying "¿Cómo?", which I think is more common in Spain. Now that I've been here for over two years, "¿Mande?" just rolls off my tongue. "¿Qué?" definitely sounds rude and impatient to me.


Casa

Apr 21, 2010, 12:45 PM

Post #5 of 32 (8954 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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I would say it depends on where you are from originally. In Spain Mande (like platicar and many other words) is considered archaic, something you would only hear in old black and white movies. So it is understandable if you would not feel comfortable using it if you are from Spain.

On the other hand some people do not feel comfortable saying it because they may feel it may be demeaning. (Mande or Mandeme coming from Mandar, to order) This is not the connotation in Mexico.

It is very common to hear a sus ordenes (at your orders) or para servirle (to serve you) after one introduces them self. This is just polite form of introduction. This person is not waiting for you to order them to do something or to serve them……again no demeaning connotation.

Much in the same way when someone say Con permiso they are not literally asking for your permission, they are being polite and excusing themselves, ( from the room or to move past you or by you) much like one would say excuse me in English.

You don’t have to be Mexican to use Mande but it is good to know that in other Spanish speaking countries many “Mexican” words will simply not be understood or could have a different meaning all together. (Try ordering a Guajolote con Chicaros in Spain)

Other polite alternatives to Qué would be "Perdón" or "Disculpe".


A donde fueres haz lo que vieres………………..When in Rome….


tashby


Apr 21, 2010, 3:08 PM

Post #6 of 32 (8941 views)

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Re: [Casa] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Quote
On the other hand some people do not feel comfortable saying it because they may feel it may be demeaning. (Mande or Mandeme coming from Mandar, to order) This is not the connotation in Mexico.


Thanks, yes. This is my concern, but I guess it's not warranted? Given the history of the country my assumption was that it once had a much more literal meaning.


Maesonna

Apr 21, 2010, 8:27 PM

Post #7 of 32 (8914 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Absolutely. And various other Mexican expressions. I try to speak Spanish like a Mexican: it only makes sense because I live in Mexico and I learned my Spanish here. For me, it’s not logical to try to speak like someone from a different country that I never lived in nor will ever live in.

In the particular case of “mande,” it’s definitely the polite thing to say in Mexico. Like saying “Pardon me?” or “I beg your pardon?” instead of “What?”

(This post was edited by Maesonna on Apr 21, 2010, 8:57 PM)


esperanza

Apr 22, 2010, 7:30 AM

Post #8 of 32 (8895 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Your friend is right, of course: you definitely are nuts. ;^)

'Mande' is absolutely the right thing to say in Mexico. Using it is in no way demeaning. It's Mexican Spanish and your use of 'mande' will show that you are indeed speaking the language more "as she is spoke" and less as it's learned in a classroom.


http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









tashby


Apr 22, 2010, 9:14 PM

Post #9 of 32 (8858 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Thank you everyone!

I guess I can "¿Mande?" my way along freely, after admitting to my friend that he was correct and I was nuts.

Was. Nuts.

In my defense, I probably overthink this cultural boundary stuff because of where we live.

Thanks again.


mazbook1


Apr 22, 2010, 10:21 PM

Post #10 of 32 (8849 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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tashby, No I don't think that you "overthink" the cultural boundary stuff. ¿mande? in place of ¿qué? (borderline rude) or ¿cómo? (overly formal or European, although a well educated Mexican taught me that it was the most polite when I first moved to México) is perfectly OK. Much better than ¿perdón? and certainly better than ¿disculpe?

BUT, although common in México, ¡mande!, particularly when answering the telephone, is definitely servile, and well educated Mexicans never use it this way. I actually know one very well-educated couple who will not allow their children to use it at all, since it hearkens back to the days when all Mexicans (mestizos and indígenas) were expected/required to be servile to their Spanish overlords and later to the hacendados who replaced the Spanish after Independence. My well-educated Mexican friends tell me that it is VERY, very different than "a sus ordenes" or "para servirle" that are both primarily used by merchants or their clerks when either greeting a customer or, in the case of "para servirle", after you have thanked them at the end of a transaction. Those are merely normal politenesses that have disappeared from American English, one of the reasons that most Mexicans feel that most gringos are either somewhat or even very rude, but that's a whole other discussion.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Apr 22, 2010, 10:37 PM)


mevale

Apr 25, 2010, 6:13 PM

Post #11 of 32 (8799 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Your friend is right, of course: you definitely are nuts. ;^)

'Mande' is absolutely the right thing to say in Mexico. Using it is in no way demeaning. It's Mexican Spanish and your use of 'mande' will show that you are indeed speaking the language more "as she is spoke" and less as it's learned in a classroom.


I'm going to somewhat disagree with the above statement. When I first moved here, I asked my ex-Spanish teacher about this, and she said that she and all of her friends and family in Guadalajara would never use "¿mande?", but preferred to use "¿cómo?". We didn't talk about it much more than that, but I did sense somewhat of a "class" attitude, and I have noticed over the years that people from small towns tend to use "¿mande?" much more than people from say, D.F., Guadalajara or Monterrey. In fact, I have a friend that was born in Monterrey and in all the years I've known him, I've never heard him say "¿mande?". So I don't think that it is as universal as the above post implies.


(This post was edited by mevale on Apr 25, 2010, 6:16 PM)


Vichil

Apr 26, 2010, 1:17 PM

Post #12 of 32 (8762 views)

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Re: [mevale] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Funny, my teacher told me the same thing years ago. She said that since I was older there very few situation where I would say mande and she told me to use Como. My teacher was a Tapatia as well.


tashby


Apr 28, 2010, 5:24 PM

Post #13 of 32 (8661 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Do you "¿Mande?"

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And these two comments put me right back to being uncomfortable with it:


Quote
I actually know one very well-educated couple who will not allow their children to use it at all, since it hearkens back to the days when all Mexicans (mestizos and indígenas) were expected/required to be servile to their Spanish overlords and later to the hacendados who replaced the Spanish after Independence.



Quote
When I first moved here, I asked my ex-Spanish teacher about this, and she said that she and all of her friends and family in Guadalajara would never use "¿mande?", but preferred to use "¿cómo?".


I guess I'll just stick with "¿Cómo?". It comes out easily, and I hear it all the time so it's not like I sound like I'm from Mars. Much.


eyePad

Apr 29, 2010, 4:32 PM

Post #14 of 32 (8633 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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In all my time in Mexico I've never in the least felt it incorrect to use mande.


Maesonna

Apr 29, 2010, 5:07 PM

Post #15 of 32 (8625 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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I guess tone of voice can make a huge difference, but to me, “¿Cómo?” sounds more like what you say when in English you would say an incredulous “What?!” meaning “I heard what you said but I don’t believe my ears!”

Anyway, this is the first I’ve ever heard about the appropriateness of using “Mande” being controversial. From the discussion above there seem to be class differences in its acceptability. I wonder whether this also varies by region.


Rolly


Apr 30, 2010, 11:01 AM

Post #16 of 32 (8603 views)

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Re: Do you "¿Mande?"

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I asked my English students about this. Both are college students. They said their families always use mande. Alex said he sometimes uses qué with his friends. He said sometimes he slips and says qué to his father who frowns at him for using that word rather than mande.

Rolly Pirate


mazbook1


May 1, 2010, 3:43 PM

Post #17 of 32 (8573 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Do you "¿Mande?"

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Maesonna, First, you must take into account the two variations of mande. The first, the questioning variation, i.e., ¿Mande?, is used in place of ¿Cómo?, which many of us have been taught was the most polite way to say, "Please repeat that." or ¿Qué?, which is definitely out-of-bounds except between friends. ¿Perdón? can be used, but I have never heard it used in this situation by a native-Spanish speaker in my part of México, although that non-use could be purely regional.

This use of mande, pretty well cuts across all class and regional differences in México, although there are those native-Spanish speakers who never seem to use it
. I have never heard my wife, who comes from a working class family from northern Sinaloa, use it in the 10 years we have been together, even when she is conversing with friends who use it often. Nor have I heard any of her direct family (my suegros or cuñados) use it. This particular usage may have originated as a servile usage in México, but today seems to be more-or-less universally acceptable as a normal alternative to ¿Cómo?

But then, there is the other variation of mande; the one that I always write as ¡Mande! This usage definitely originates from the original, servile use of the word, and the usage definitely varies with the "class" or education of the speaker or the speaker's family. It may also be regional, but I hear it quite often from less educated folks here in Sinaloa, so I have no basis for comparison with other regions of México. I have never heard it used as replacement for Bueno, when answering the telephone here in Mazatlán, although I understand that it is common in some other regions of México. BUT, I have heard it frequently when I answer the telephone and someone asks for an employee. The first word out of that employee's mouth when taking the phone is, more often than not, ¡Mande!, something which seems to be a more servile statement than the commonly heard, ¡Dígame! Although both are unmistakably the polite (Usted), respectful imperative, the latter is definitely NOT servile, whereas ¡Mande! is, or at least is considered to be by a certain "class" of well-educated Mexicans.



(This post was edited by mazbook1 on May 1, 2010, 6:43 PM)


sioux4noff

May 2, 2010, 9:04 AM

Post #18 of 32 (8543 views)

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Re: [tashby] Do you "¿Mande?"

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This thread reminds me of something that happened to me a couple years ago.
I went to the municipality's Mother's Day event, a large gathering of probably 10,000 people. I'm guessing that 9,990 or more of them were born and raised in Mexico.
The entertainment was a comedian, not an easy type of entertainment for me to follow but I was doing OK.
She made one joke that I think I was the ONLY person in that large audience who laughed out loud at it.
She told her partner about something that was going to happen, and he said "Mande?" To which her answer was "Si, Monday, y Tuesday, y Wednesday y Thursday."


jerezano

May 5, 2010, 9:49 AM

Post #19 of 32 (8472 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] Do you "¿Mande?"/Education

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Hello all,

Here in Zacatecas I have found, as someone has previously pointed out, that people with more education (scholastic not manners) do not use mande. On the other hand the campesinos who have usually dropped out of grammar school early use it all the time. ¿Cómo? or No entendí are always acceptable. ¿Qué? from a gringo is always acceptable too.

Perhaps the latter, ¿Qué?, betrays lack of education (manners not scholastic) but if so it is forgivable with people whose native language is not Spanish.

Hasta luego, jerezano


La Isla


May 5, 2010, 10:05 AM

Post #20 of 32 (8464 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Do you "¿Mande?"/Education

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I could swear that I've heard all sorts of people in Mexico City use ¿mande? as a polite way to say "What?", but after reading through this thread, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm going to keep my ears open the next few days to find out if that's really true.


esperanza

May 5, 2010, 11:08 AM

Post #21 of 32 (8460 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Do you "¿Mande?"/Education

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Every native Spanish-speaker I know in Mexico uses mande, no matter his/her level of estudios (school studies) or educación (manners). Native speakers from other countries generally don't; it's a Mexican thing.


http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Papirex


May 5, 2010, 1:43 PM

Post #22 of 32 (8446 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Do you "¿Mande?"

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My Mexican wife, born and educated in México City, always says ¿mande?, it is correctly pronounced in Spanish the same as the English word Monday. She says that ¿que?, ¿como?, or anything else sounds ignorant.


The correct usage probably depends on the area of the country, and the educational level of the speaker. I don´t worry, or even think about it.


Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


La Isla


May 5, 2010, 1:51 PM

Post #23 of 32 (8443 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Do you "¿Mande?"

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My Mexican wife, born and educated in México City, always says ¿mande?, it is correctly pronounced in Spanish the same as the English word Monday. She says that ¿que?, ¿como?, or anything else sounds ignorant.

Rex


I beg to differ with you about the correct pronunciations of "mande" and "Monday". "Mande" is pronounced /mahn day/ and "Monday" is pronounced /mun day/, at least I way I say them.


Papirex


May 5, 2010, 2:09 PM

Post #24 of 32 (8442 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Do you "¿Mande?"

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I have been hearing my wife and her whole (huge) family pronounce it as monday for over 3 decades. Most of them reside in México City. I specifically asked my wife what the correct pronunciation is before I made my last post.


My wifes' family has lived in México for several hundred years. One of her great-grandfathers was a French soldier that escaped from the battle at Puebla, he, and several other survivors settled in Jalisco.


I defer to her familys' knowledge of the correct pronunciation of all Spanish words used in México. Hell, there are even people in my home state of California that don't know that the correct pronunciation of creek in English is crick. I don't take any of this seriously, as long as people understand most of what I am saying, I'm happy.


Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo


Maesonna

May 5, 2010, 2:38 PM

Post #25 of 32 (8437 views)

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Re: [Papirex] Do you "¿Mande?"

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English has over a dozen different vowel sounds; Spanish only five. Spanish speakers learning English find it hard to master the subtle differences between various English vowel sounds. I can well imagine a Spanish speaker not being able to differentiate between the vowel in “Monday” and “mande.”
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