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Brian

Mar 17, 2010, 6:28 PM

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It's not just happening near the border

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From MP3 and El Universal.

"

El Universal (Mexico City) 3/15/10
More cops and robbers
Four policemen of Cuautitlan, state of Mexico, were arrested in connection with the murder of eleven drivers of vehicles beginning in November of 2009. The victims were assassinated to take their cell phones, credit cards, and amounts of cash varying from 300 to 15,000 pesos. Evidence against the four included the use of the victims’ credit cards and, in one of the assaults, the use of a firearm issued by the police agency. A fifth member of this group remains loose.
—-
[Portions of an op/col. by Felix Fuentes, titled “On the Line”, follow.]
Due to the intense bloodbath and the wave of terror that extend through the Republic, the population claims an immediate halt from the federal and state governments to the panic imposed by the drug cartels. President Calderon promised to detain the ones guilty of the triple homicide suffered by personnel of the American Consulate in Ciudad Juarez. He ought to say the same to the families of the nearly 18 thousand dead recorded during his administration, carried out by the underworld.
People from nearly the whole country cry for their dead, raise their voice and demand an end to this climate of fear and insecurity, suffered by the unstoppable advance of criminality.
From Tijuana to Matamoros, and from Sinaloa to Quintana Roo, passing through Durango, Michoacan, Guerrero, Oaxaca, Veracruz and Tabasco, the cartels kidnap, make martyrs of the victims, kill, decapitate, mutilate and dismember bodies, for the purpose of causing terror throughout. Ciudad Juarez, already with 480 victims of execution this year, and considered the world’s most insecure metropolis, made world news due to the close range assassinations of Lesley Ann Enriquez and her husband Arthur H. Rodelf. Both worked in the U.S. Consulate, and they shot them in their car. Also killed was Jorge Albert Salcido, a Mexican employee of the same diplomatic post.
A month ago President Calderon traveled to Ciudad Juarez twice, and, amidst reproaches and speeches, he promised to return tranquility to the people of Juarez. Nothing was gained. The executions continued, such as the nine that took place yesterday in the state, and some eight more, of thugs killed by Navy personnel at a ranch. The killings multiply in tourist centers, such as Acapulco, where there were 43 deaths in two days, including two decapitated ones and a dismembered one. Uniformed police are favorite targets in the port where thugs impose panic, just when the season of spring-breakers started, many of who have cancelled their reservations or leave, fleeing to the United States.
The Ministry of Foreign Relations said they “guarantee the integrity of the persons”, be that of diplomats or of Mexican families in general. Nonsense. That agency, like so many others, is not capable of guaranteeing anything."



Reefhound


Mar 17, 2010, 6:50 PM

Post #2 of 13 (5067 views)

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Re: [Brian] It's not just happening near the border

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All but the ostriches have known for awhile it extends beyond the border areas although that remains the worst area. I noticed the latter article used the word "terror" a few times. How long before the cartels earn that magic label that would surely garner American support? Expect that if they switch from use of guns to explosives or begin attacks in American cities.

The corruption of police is really disturbing and indicates something has been systemically wrong for a long time. For every one exposed there must be dozens getting away with it. Is the level of corruption a new thing or has it been there all along, and the increased reports and arrests an indicator of a stronger push to fight the corruption?

I am no expert on the Mexican mindset but it seems that most Mexicans do not trust the police very much or view them favorably. Do young men and women grow up wanting to be police officers because they view it as a license to kill and steal or because they view it as an honorable profession and opportunity to serve their people?


Rolly


Mar 17, 2010, 7:31 PM

Post #3 of 13 (5053 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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Do young men and women grow up wanting to be police officers because they view it as a license to kill and steal...

Probably. But it also an easy to get job in most places where other work opportunities are scarce.

Rolly Pirate


chepe gp40-2hh

Mar 17, 2010, 8:11 PM

Post #4 of 13 (5030 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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 My opinion is that the systemic corruption dates back to when Espana still ruled the land, and the locals had no choice but to skim any relevants goods that were being shipped back to the east.

Now that it is so entrenched,the job of holding these groups power to a minimum must surely infuriate some of the real and truly clean politicians and military leaders, because of course these groups are getting US cash directly from the states.

What a way to bypass your own government.


joaquinx


Mar 17, 2010, 8:15 PM

Post #5 of 13 (5030 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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Quote
I am no expert on the Mexican mindset but it seems that most Mexicans do not trust the police very much or view them favorably.


I wonder how many of the police assassinations were not connected to the narcos, but revenge.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


Peter


Mar 17, 2010, 11:11 PM

Post #6 of 13 (5001 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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All but the ostriches have known for awhile it extends beyond the border areas although that remains the worst area. I noticed the latter article used the word "terror" a few times. How long before the cartels earn that magic label that would surely garner American support? Expect that if they switch from use of guns to explosives or begin attacks in American cities.

There have been explosives used from time to time, but I don't think it advisable to use the "T" word too loosely for fear the US might want to get involved. At which time you can expect the military to bust down your door in middle of the night and shoot dad and the oldest son for protesting about roughing-up mom before the government intruders discover it was the house of the same number on the next block that had the bag of weed they were looking for. Terrorism and the war on drugs are the best tools governments have for revoking civil liberties and eroding any expectations one might still have about retaining any real rights to privacy in one's own home. It's a well-known tactic to turn up the heat to rattle the populace then use the unrest as pretext to become a worst nightmare, all in the interest of restoring peace. It's for your own good, they'll have you believe, even if they have to stage it themselves. Many in Morelia feel that bombing here in 2008 was not carried out by the narcos but the other side.


The corruption of police is really disturbing and indicates something has been systemically wrong for a long time. For every one exposed there must be dozens getting away with it. Is the level of corruption a new thing or has it been there all along, and the increased reports and arrests an indicator of a stronger push to fight the corruption?


I've asked around and the general concensus is that corruption is not new to Mexico, and that its current level is perhaps somewhat less than before.

I am no expert on the Mexican mindset but it seems that most Mexicans do not trust the police very much or view them favorably. Do young men and women grow up wanting to be police officers because they view it as a license to kill and steal or because they view it as an honorable profession and opportunity to serve their people?



There were a couple brothers in my old colonia, whose father was a cop, that were known to be the worst rateros there and were suspicioned as being responsible for over 90% of the colonia's burglaries. Their house is now unoccupied and the family left town very suddenly several months back. Scuttlebutt has it that the brothers borrowed a couple of dad's uniforms and pulled off a shooting in a nearby colonia close to the Monarcas futbol stadium which the media reported witnesses saying it was the police that did the deed.

I know another neighbor that is a uniformed police woman who views it as an honorable profession and opportunity to serve the people, and conducts herself in that manner. Her teenage son is a very well-mannered kid. I like both of them very well.


Demonio

Mar 18, 2010, 10:54 AM

Post #7 of 13 (4929 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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In Reply To
"I am no expert on the Mexican mindset but it seems that most Mexicans do not trust the police very much or view them favorably. Do young men and women grow up wanting to be police officers because they view it as a license to kill and steal or because they view it as an honorable profession and opportunity to serve their people?

One of the central problems with Calderon's approach to fighting the drug cartels is the lack of independent oversight of law enforcement agencies and the military. This strategy of insulation has created a breeding ground for corruption. In 2009, Mexico received a score of 3.3 out of 10 on Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index, tied with Rwanda and Malawi and below Guatemala and El Salvador. Independent surveys systematically reveal that more than two-thirds of the Mexican population distrusts the police. A worrisome 70% of the Mexican population is now unsatisfied with democracy itself.

From a L.A. Times OP ED piece titled How Mexico gets it wrong, by John M. Ackerman




"What we've got here is a failure to communicate."


Reefhound


Mar 18, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #8 of 13 (4907 views)

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Re: [Demonio] It's not just happening near the border

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So I'm guessing that Mexican municipal police departments do not have the equivalent of Internal Affairs departments found in U.S. police departments?


Poncho32

Mar 18, 2010, 7:22 PM

Post #9 of 13 (4840 views)

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Re: [Peter] It's not just happening near the border

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In reply to your comment,

There have been explosives used from time to time, but I don't think it advisable to use the "T" word too loosely for fear the US might want to get involved.

I am a snow bird that has lived as much time that I can afford in this beautiful country of Mexico for 40+ years, but I am also an American.

Where America better get involved is to put more money into Calderons war chest to fight this problem, it is their need that drives the traffic of drugs.
Bud Crest


Peter


Mar 18, 2010, 9:58 PM

Post #10 of 13 (4799 views)

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Re: [Bud Crest] It's not just happening near the border

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I am a snow bird that has lived as much time that I can afford in this beautiful country of Mexico for 40+ years, but I am also an American.

Where America better get involved is to put more money into Calderons war chest to fight this problem, it is their need that drives the traffic of drugs.

______

With over 40 years coming to Mexico you just might remember what it was like here before Nixon kicked-off this war on drugs a little over 40 years ago. In this time we can see the war on drugs is going just swimingly. A few more dollars and the problem will soon be solved. No sense after this much time invested to look back and re-adjust strategy, the powers driving the war still have the same desires.

The US has made great strides in these efforts. They've built dozens of new prisons to accommodate the evil-doers, revoked or revised some antiquated rights and privacy laws to be able to get right on top of the problem. Despite great efforts, though, they're just not quite there yet. Perhaps it's time to do as you suggest, apply the old American solution and pay Mexicans to clean up their mess. Is the US buying the carnitas and bebidas after the job is done?


Poncho32

Mar 19, 2010, 6:17 AM

Post #11 of 13 (4763 views)

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Re: [Peter] It's not just happening near the border

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In reply to your latest comment.

The US has made great strides in these efforts. They've built dozens of new prisons to accommodate the evil-doers, revoked or revised some antiquated rights and privacy laws to be able to get right on top of the problem. Despite great efforts, though, they're just not quite there yet. Perhaps it's time to do as you suggest, apply the old American solution and pay Mexicans to clean up their mess. Is the US buying the carnitas and bebidas after the job is done?

The above is very true.

But I would like to further my concern on this matter.

The United States needs to recognize that we could very well be soon fighting two wars,if we fail to see the potential of what is building up to our South.

We are now fighting one in Afghanistan, that in large our enemy is being financed by drugs money, and the oil barons,
some one more intelligent than I needs to define the difference in the two.
I also cpmpletely understand all of this will increase the U.S.debt, but how else do you stem the tide?

I realize that their are way more multiple problems that exist to ever have peace and harmony in our world .

As far as the drug war problem, the only answer that seams to make sense is to take the profit out of it by legalization.

One can always dream.

Bud Crest


Reefhound


Mar 19, 2010, 8:21 AM

Post #12 of 13 (4739 views)

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Re: [Peter] It's not just happening near the border

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The world everywhere was a different place in 1970 and it is naive to think it would still be that same place today, drug war or no drug war. The inherent problem here is in viewing it as a "war" that has a beginning and an end. It is more akin to the fight against crime. We have been forming police departments and laws to stop people from robbing and killing each other for thousands of years and still the number of robberies and murderers keeps climbing. That fight against crime apparently is going even more swimmingly than the war on drugs, maybe it is time to repeal laws against violent crimes and disband police departments?

Personally, I think the personal use of mild drugs like pot should be decriminalized but I don't believe that pot is what the drug cartels are all about. They would still have the lucrative drugs like meth, coke, crack, etc. and the cartels are not limited to the drug enterprise. They would still have extortion, kidnapping, human trafficking, etc. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me with a straight face how all these violent men are going to shrug their shoulders and go get a 50 peso per day maquiladora job if drugs were legalized.


tonyburton


Mar 19, 2010, 8:40 AM

Post #13 of 13 (4732 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It's not just happening near the border

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This thread has become increasingly political and of less and less direct relevance to Mexico (in this moderator's opinion) and I'm therefore locking it before it wanders even further. Feel free to start another thread related to any issues that are central to Mexico. Thanks, Tony
 
 
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