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Brian

Jan 30, 2010, 6:04 AM

Post #1 of 65 (8127 views)

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Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Within the past few days, the state of Michoacan has been the stage of some particularly violent events involving the murder of a police chief and the discovery of several dismembered bodies. Yesterday, the cartel news took a turn to the bizarre. Residents of the city of Zamora, twice witnessed a spectacle in which men who had obviously been flagellated and otherwise tortured were paraded around one of the main glorietas bearing signs that they were being made an example by the La Familia who accused them of thievery and other crimes. La Familia has a strange set of values in which individual members are required to refrain from intoxicants and to be champions of "family values" in the community. Drug trafficking and murder are ok, however, in pursuit of the higher good whatever that is. Anyway, the men who were subjected to this public display refused to accept offers of medical treatment by the Cruz Roja and would not cooperate with a police investigation.

http://www.correo-gto.com.mx/notas.asp?id=146883

Brian



Manuel Dexterity

Jan 30, 2010, 7:52 AM

Post #2 of 65 (8099 views)

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Re: [Brian] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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What a bunch of irresponsible pansies who fail to do their civic duty.


esperanza

Jan 30, 2010, 10:10 AM

Post #3 of 65 (8072 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Geez, Sr. Dexterity: they probably didn't want their faces sliced off and sewn to a soccer ball. That happened to some other 'pansies' just a couple of weeks ago.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









gpkgto

Jan 30, 2010, 10:21 AM

Post #4 of 65 (8071 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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I assume you are being facetious. No one cooperates with the police in such cases. There are also never any witnesses to robberies, hit-and-run, etc. The police are often not trusted and the potential repercussions could involve the witness' family.


Manuel Dexterity

Jan 30, 2010, 11:20 AM

Post #5 of 65 (8059 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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In Reply To
I assume you are being facetious.


Wasn't it obvious?

These guys got off lucky and they know it. Only a complete pendejo would file a complaint. If they were smart they would head for NOB.


(This post was edited by Manuel Dexterity on Jan 30, 2010, 11:23 AM)


gpkgto

Jan 30, 2010, 11:23 AM

Post #6 of 65 (8056 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Not to esperanza--unless she was being facetious, too.


Manuel Dexterity

Jan 30, 2010, 11:25 AM

Post #7 of 65 (8053 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Not to esperanza--unless she was being facetious, too.


Yeah...well. I guess some people lack a functioning sarcasm detector.


tonyburton / Moderator


Jan 30, 2010, 12:15 PM

Post #8 of 65 (8037 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Unfortunately, for sarcasm to work well, you need to know your audience, which is impossible in the context of a forum such as this, which is read by an incredibly diverse range of people. This means that, here at least, sarcasm is not a reliable form of reliable communication or even of reliable humor.


Manuel Dexterity

Jan 30, 2010, 12:37 PM

Post #9 of 65 (8029 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Oh but Tony, wouldn't you say we all reliabably know which posters around here are reliable.


esperanza

Jan 30, 2010, 12:46 PM

Post #10 of 65 (8026 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Not to esperanza--unless she was being facetious, too.


Yeah...well. I guess some people lack a functioning sarcasm detector.

What I lack, in the current circumstances, is much of any kind of sense of humor regarding the on-going problems with narcoviolencia in Mexico.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Manuel Dexterity

Jan 30, 2010, 12:54 PM

Post #11 of 65 (8021 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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My sarcastic reply to the OP was not aimed at you but at the original post which was sarcastic in itself. If you misunderstood, ni modo.


Brian

Jan 30, 2010, 12:58 PM

Post #12 of 65 (8017 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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I take responsibility for the direction this message thread has turned because of the subject line. It was intended to be ironic rather than sarcastic. It comes on the heels of a post about criminal record keeping in San Miguel de Allende. In that city, the chief has stated that unless a crime is formally denounced before the Ministerio Publico (not just reported to the police), it is classified as a rumor rather than a fact. The former mayor of San Miguel has claimed that there were 18 kidnappings in the entity last year but the new administration has denied this. All but two of those were either classified as rumors or "levantones" a category that comes mighty close to kidnapping in most peoples' understanding. Especially when it comes to kidnapping, many victims or their family members will not go through the denuncia procedure for a variety of reasons. With these fellows, who clearly were taken against their will, the reason is obvious.

http://www.correo-gto.com.mx/notas.asp?id=146754

http://www.correo-gto.com.mx/notas.asp?id=146643

Be sure to read the comments section which follow the articles.


(This post was edited by Brian on Jan 30, 2010, 1:33 PM)


tonyburton / Moderator


Jan 30, 2010, 1:11 PM

Post #13 of 65 (8005 views)

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Re: [Brian] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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I was not attempting to place responsibility anywhere, but only to emphasize that clarity of communication on a forum such as this is unlikely to be achieved via sarcasm (or indeed via most forms of humor).
In response to manueldexterity, no assumptions can be made about the readers of these forums. Possibly regular or long-established readers can work out the personalities of posters, but that is not the case for the majority of our readers, who have never (and may never) make a single post of their own.


Reefhound


Jan 30, 2010, 7:47 PM

Post #14 of 65 (7957 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Many forums offer emoticons which can help clarify the tone of a comment. Is that not a feature here?


arbon

Jan 30, 2010, 9:33 PM

Post #15 of 65 (7944 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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"Many forums offer emoticons which can help clarify the tone of a comment. Is that not a feature here?"

No.

But people have trouble knowing what a question mark means.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Rolly


Jan 30, 2010, 10:30 PM

Post #16 of 65 (7930 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Emoticons -- I just noticed that the old page of these things has gone missing, so here is a new posting on the Practice & Help Forum.

http://www.mexconnect.com/...i?post=139579#139579

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Jan 30, 2010, 10:30 PM)


Hound Dog

Feb 1, 2010, 6:24 PM

Post #17 of 65 (7865 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Please, oh please, do not offer the "emoticons" feature here. Nothing is achieved when writing ironically or satirically by telling the reader through an "emoticon", that the preceding posting was meant to be to be a wry comment and that the reader should be amused. The "emoticon" defeats the comment.

That having been said, I agree with Esperanza that the happenings in Michoacan are a bit on the repulsive and frightening side to be funny. We canceled plans to drive from Lake Chapala to Chiapas last month by taking the route from Uruapan to Lázaro Cardenas and down the coast and took the Arco Norte instead. Enough is enough.

It should speak volumes that someone who lives in San Cristóbal de Las Casas won´t risk traversing the backroads through Michoacan to get to the coast and the fact we canceled that long planned trip just ain´t funny.


Reefhound


Feb 1, 2010, 6:41 PM

Post #18 of 65 (7857 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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This from our local rag last night.

Elsewhere, as many as 20 suspected gangsters attacked a police station on Sunday with assault rifles and grenades in the Pacific port of Lazaro Cardenas. A policeman and two civilians, who were at the station to pay a fine, were killed.


Peter


Feb 2, 2010, 7:33 AM

Post #19 of 65 (7822 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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I just got back to Morelia from several days on the coast. I rented a cabaña in Nexpa, visited friends in Lázaro Cárdenes, Guacamayas, spent a few hours in Playa Azul twice - going and coming, and had lunch in Nueva Italia. I didn´t have to dodge any bullets.

Not safe to hang around police stations, I guess. Better to pay the mordida on the road?

Feel safer in the US? Yeah, Los Angeles was a quiet little burgh. Stuff happens, especially in Mexico it seems. Dangerous, I´m told. The temples make more noise firing off sky rockets, helps drown out the bullets. I´m not losing any sleep.

I hear Japan has some very safe cities.


Reefhound


Feb 2, 2010, 7:58 AM

Post #20 of 65 (7808 views)

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Re: [Peter] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Arrggh! Peter, not trying to paint a picture of anarchy here. Just thought it interesting that Dawg had planned to go there and changed his mind then this happened. Violence is random and can happen anywhere. All you can do is the best you can to put the odds in your favor and the rest is up to a higher power.


Peter


Feb 2, 2010, 8:33 AM

Post #21 of 65 (7799 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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My previous post I had started as a reply to HD but your post about the bystanders at the police station encouraged me to change that to reply to you instead. I agree, I don´t do things to prompt the odds against me, just do what I can to be safe as possible and go about living and enjoying life as best I can. It´s pretty easy to enjoy life here.

The whole complexion of things changed after the elections and intensifying the war on drugs. I´m sure the people feel much safer now knowing everyone is doing all they can to... well, I´m a little confused about just what the intentions are, but they are doing so much more of it nowadays.

The news media tells me it´s a war zone and heads are literally rolling. I just don´t see it. Today I´m staying home and playing house with my Mexicana pareja. It´s cold and rainy today. She put on a nice pot of barbacoa de res yesterday and we finished it for breakfast this morning. Life here is good.


(This post was edited by Peter on Feb 2, 2010, 10:51 AM)


La Isla


Feb 2, 2010, 8:44 AM

Post #22 of 65 (7790 views)

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Re: [Peter] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Why is it that some here seek out stories of atrocities committed by the narco gangs and others choose not to dwell on the increasingly dire security situation in Mexico? I think that a lot of it has to do with our our individual outlooks on life and even our personalities. I find myself being more concerned about the increase in crime in the country in general and in certain areas in particular, but my daily routine continues along a peaceful path here in the ombligo de México...


Oscar2

Feb 2, 2010, 2:22 PM

Post #23 of 65 (7758 views)

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Re: [Peter] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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The subject of caution and fear lacing ones disposition and decision making can in some cases not only be inhibiting but most always shored by others voices of fear, such as media and others who are always there to validate your need to be reassured you are in its flow.


Most of us know sensationalism thrives on itself and playing into it is exactly its game. This self feeding machine which not only sells but recruits obedience to red flags, sign posts and more is designed to herd the masses in the direction of its intent.

I abhor admitting this but yes, “fear” is one of the best/or horrific sellers, bar none, of anything it wants you to buy. It runs the gamut of one’s fear of running out of tooth paste, to losing your life and everything in between. Terrorism, murder and the like, kick-up the ultimate ante where stakes can make you grit your teeth and comply and/or revolt against this fear, of fear. There are those in our lives who know this game well and many others in life who use it well to control, and flagrantly force condescension by followers who’s credence to fear is their bedfellows.

Luckily we have the luxury of choice. Some, like I, have an inner revolt of those bent on limiting this choice through well calculated or misguided atrocities which are meant to grip your innards and twist your life into catering to all the fears which lurk in the crevasses of yours and everyone else’s life. The human condition through conditioning has “never” made a mystery that killing is the ultimate controlling agent by which we are harvested into obeying for fear of losing our own lives. Therefore, stand at attention, upright and heed my existence when I drop a bomb in your neighborhood. My God, I refuse to allow these ill intended A-holes to straddle my life, my joy of living, everything I’ve strived for, to drop a bomb or the like, as they’ve done since man has walked the earth and continually eat the crap which makes one sick with fear….


Fear mongers; heed your attention, in so many ways. My favorite, “you can’t go through life burying your head in the sand,” and/or you must see things as I do or you are less then I, or you’re going to die much sooner than I because I’m careful, cautious, well behaved, fearful, and everything else which is sensible and yes, perhaps safer in so many, many ways and on and on and on…….sheeesh! Does “it” ever stop…NO! I and so many others are literally sick of this diet and if needed will “choose” to put our collective heads in the “so called” sand to squeeze out mantra’s guiding one’s life from one fear to another….. Now, its time for a cold one and a taco...


gpkgto

Feb 2, 2010, 2:35 PM

Post #24 of 65 (7746 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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It sounds like a few "cold ones" were already had.


Reefhound


Feb 2, 2010, 2:37 PM

Post #25 of 65 (7746 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] Even the criminals won't file denuncias

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Dead men have no fear, and they neither obey nor revolt.
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