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bammazmx

Jan 14, 2010, 6:27 PM

Post #1 of 40 (9479 views)

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US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I think this is a new one. Does anybody know if a VISA is required for a US/MEX citizen to travel via airlines from Mexico to Canada? Does a US passport act as a VISA in this case since the requiements for travel to canada have changed ? I plan on calling the airlines here in Mazatlan but I am not sure I will get the correct answer. Anybody have any actual experience in this situation?

thanks

Brian



mazbook1


Jan 14, 2010, 10:35 PM

Post #2 of 40 (9426 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Technically, Mexican citizens are supposed to travel as Mexican citizens, i.e., have a visa for Canada. BUT the reality is that once you get to Canada there is no obvious reason (to me) that you could not use your U.S. passport to enter Canada.

If I were you, I would check with the Canadian Consulate in Mazatlán. They can undoubtedly give you the correct answer.

If you are a naturalized Mexican citizen, using your U.S. passport anywhere except for entering the U.S. is technically breaking the oath you signed when you got your Mexican naturalization papers, but that won't make any difference to the Canadian authorities. If you are a naturalized U.S. citizen you are fine, you should have no problem entering Canada using your U.S. passport.


bammazmx

Jan 15, 2010, 6:50 AM

Post #3 of 40 (9402 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I understand that and agree mazbook. The main question is will the airline here in Mexico allow me to process and get on the plane.

As you know if you or I travel to the US, we show our Mex Passport (required by Mex law) at the airport, they ask for our Visa, we then show our US passport since we are US citizens also, and that acts as our visa for the US. They then of course allow us on the plane.

BUT... in the case of Canada... agian you need to show your Mexican Passport.... the airline will then be required to ask for your visa to travel to Canada... yes you are technically allowed in canada with a US passport... but according to mex law you are not allowed to use your US passport anywhere but in the United States (simply because its a grey area). I believe the airlines polices follow Mex law.

I know you are a knowledgable person Mazbook, but I think you gave the short, quick answer off the top of your head, without thinking it through.

And yes I know I can talk to the canadian consolate... and I have a feeling that they will say ....SURE We will let you in.... but do they really know the Mex law side of it. As I said I am already planning to call the airlines... just a little worried I will get one answer now.... and a completly different answer at the time of the future flight.

Who wants to have vacation plans and have problems boarding the plane at the last minute.

WAS just hopeing someone had some first hand experiance.


joan e

Jan 18, 2010, 11:04 AM

Post #4 of 40 (9311 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I volunteer for an organization that arranges work permits and all types of visas: work, travel or study for Mexicans who wish to go to Canada. www.mexi-can.ca

Last July the Canadian government imposed visa restrictions on Mexicans because they were overwhelmed with Mexicans demanding asylum status upon arrival at Canadian customs. The Canadian constitution guarantees that every person asking for protected status will get an investigation of their claim. Decisions can be appealed so this process can take weeks and months. During this time, the asylum applicant is given free health care, an open work permit and cash welfare support. Mexicans were applying in far greater numbers than any other nationality and very few were found to be eligible for asylum status. This situation was costing the Canadian government a great deal of money and in an effort to diminish the applications for this status, the visa was imposed.

Check our website above or www.canadainternational.gc.ca for information about the visa application and fees. Our experience is that the Immigration Service at the Canadian Embassy in Mexico City scrutinizes very carefully all applications and will tend to reject those from people who, in their opinion, may overstay their visa or not return at all to Mexico. Allow plenty of time for the application to be dealt with.

American citizens need only a valid passport to enter Canada. Customs officers will likely ask the reason for a visit to Canada and the length of time one intends to stay. It is helpful to have information about where you will be staying in Canada.

Good luck and buen viaje!

joan e


bammazmx

Jan 18, 2010, 6:31 PM

Post #5 of 40 (9276 views)

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Re: [joan e] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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That is great general info Joan, but maybe I did not explain my problem clearly. I was born in the US and am still a US citizen. Since then I have become a naturalized Mexican citizen. Mexican law requires me to leave Mexico using my Mexican passport, otherwise I could lose my Mexican citizenship. The problem is not if I arrive at airport in Canada will they let me pass through immigration using my US passport... of course they will. The problem is will the airline in Mexico allow me to board the plane as a Mexican citizen,,,, using my US passport as the equivelent of a visa.

This would not be an issue if I was traveling by land.... in that case I would simply leave mexico a Mexican citizen.... pass/enter US immigration as a US citizen... then leave the US and enter Canada as a US citizen.


Reefhound


Jan 18, 2010, 6:37 PM

Post #6 of 40 (9271 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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It may be a hassle and an extra expense, but couldn't you just book a flight from Mexico to the U.S. and then another separate flight from the U.S. to Canada?

Or why not get a Canadian visa since you should be able to qualify easily?


joan e

Jan 18, 2010, 7:06 PM

Post #7 of 40 (9257 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Yes...I misunderstood and assumed because of the photo that accompanies your posting that you are a couple with mixed citzenship trying to figure out how to travel together....sorry about that. You are going to have to pose this question to the Canadian Immigration Service at the Mexico City Embassy. I can add that Canada does allow dual citizenship for its own citizens, so they may have a specialized process for your case.

I doubt that your American passport will finesse the visa required for Mexican citizens....that is a logical and simple solution of the sort that never appeals to bureaucrats of any nationality!

Joan E


gpkgto

Jan 19, 2010, 8:25 AM

Post #8 of 40 (9209 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I am also a naturalized Mexican citizen. I would just leave Mexico showing both passports and enter Canada with my US passport. Is there some reason this wouldn't work? There is no threat to your Mexican citizenship by using your other passport outside Mexico--that's how I understood the papers i signed when I got my Mexican citizenship.


Reefhound


Jan 19, 2010, 9:07 AM

Post #9 of 40 (9197 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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But you would be using the U.S. passport inside Mexico. Airlines are required to check entry documents on international flights because countries don't like airlines bringing in inadmissible people that have to be sent back. So the Mexican airline is going to ask to see the documents that will get you admitted to Canada prior to letting you board. If that document is your U.S. passport and you show that to them, then you are using it inside Mexico.


Rolly


Jan 19, 2010, 9:34 AM

Post #10 of 40 (9188 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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No, Reefgound, that use of a USA passport is proper.

Rolly Pirate


gpkgto

Jan 19, 2010, 10:14 AM

Post #11 of 40 (9167 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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The document I signed when I got my citizenship said only that I could lose my Mexican citizenship IF I DENIED BEING MEXICAN WHILE IN MEXICAN TERRITORY--using dual citizenship is not denial of Mexican citizenship.


Marlene


Jan 19, 2010, 11:14 AM

Post #12 of 40 (9150 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Will you be traveling non-stop to Canada (Westjet)?


bammazmx

Jan 19, 2010, 4:02 PM

Post #13 of 40 (9117 views)

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Re: [Marlene] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Hi Marlene;

I actually have no set plans as of yet.

This actually all started a week ago while I was looking at the catalog that Bancomer sent me for the credit card I have with them. I almost have enough points for a free 3 nights stay in Toronto airfare included. I asked my wife if she would like to make the trip in the spring.... she said sure... I then reminded her that she would need to get a visa for the trip.

Looking back at the conversation now... I can almost hear the stopwatch start inside my head... I think it was exactly 4.2 seconds when the light bulb lit up..." Ch.%$#% !!!!! I THINK I MIGHT NEED ONE NOW ALSO!!!!!!!"

Anyhow I think WESTJET is the only option with direct flights in Mazatlan. I have found the international 800 number to contact them but want to call WESTJET directly at the Maz airport.... cant find the number anywhere.

If you know the number I could really use it.... then I will let everybody know the "hopefully" correct answer.

I did find a number in the yellow pages for the airport itself..... i thought they could simply connect me to westjet.... we called it 3 times today... There is nobody home at the airport today....jajajjajaa.

saludos


bammazmx

Jan 19, 2010, 4:27 PM

Post #14 of 40 (9111 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I agree with Rolly on that one Reefhound. It is the same as if I were traveling to the US... When they ask for my Visa, I am allowed to show my US passport to simply verify that I am permited entry to the US.

As was mentioned the airlines are required to verify that everybody has the proper documentation before they board the plane. The question in the case of travelling to canada is if the people at the airport consider my US passport as permission to enter. Or do they simply want to see a visa.

Maybe it seems a no brainer that yes they should know that US citizens are permited in canada..... but what if we change the situation to this.... What if a person had Mexican nationality and lets say Japanese nationality. Do the people at the airport know if a Japanese citizen is allowed into canada?

Mabey they do??? That is basically my original question... Do they simply want to see a visa.... or do they have a list of all countrys whos citizens are permitted into Canada.

Yes i know... this is getting carried away!!!!

As soon as I talk to somebody that appears to know what they are talking about at the Airlines here in maz... I will post the answer I am given.

adios


mazbook1


Jan 20, 2010, 12:54 AM

Post #15 of 40 (9068 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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All very valid questions, bammazmx. Yep, I did shoot from the hip a bit there; didn't quite think it all the way through. I do think that Westjet, being a Canadian airline, will accept the U.S. passport in lieu of a Canadian visa, but you never know with any bureaucracy!

gpkisner, you say, "There is no threat to your Mexican citizenship by using your other passport outside Mexico--that's how I understood the papers i signed when I got my Mexican citizenship."

You are correct when you say there is no threat to your Mexican citizenship, but you did sign an oath to not use your other citizenship (the exception being in the other country where you are a citizen). This is why Pres. Calderón's young, naturalized Secretario de Gobernación (the one who died in the plane crash) was in such hot water about using his Spanish passport to travel in Europe after he had his Mexican passport.

Since few, if any of us now living in México who have become naturalized citizens are likely to be involved in politics (certainly not Federal Cabinet level politics) it is more of a technicality for us, but the reality is that we are now first and foremost Mexican citizens and are expected to present ourselves to the world as such; that U.S. citizenship is supposed to be number 2 and only used to enter and within the U.S.


bammazmx

Jan 20, 2010, 7:06 AM

Post #16 of 40 (9046 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I agree mazbook. It was also my understanding that other than travel to the US, I am always to present myself as a Mexican citizen throughout the world, at least when my original travel started from Mexico. If for some reason I would ever travel from the US to another country that would probally be a different story.

However, as far as Westjet being a Canadian company, i still have a feeling that since they are operating within Mexico, their procedures as far as boarding requirements are probally based on Mexican laws.

Don't Know.

Saludos

Brian


esperanza

Jan 20, 2010, 8:35 AM

Post #17 of 40 (9034 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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No matter which airline I have flown when traveling to the USA, I hand my Mexican passport to the Mexican airline counter clerk. S/he always says, "Y sus documentos para entrar a los EEUU, Señora?". I hand her my US passport. She hands everything back to me. No further questions.


http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Jan 20, 2010, 8:35 AM)


gpkgto

Jan 20, 2010, 10:41 AM

Post #18 of 40 (9004 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Re: "you did sign an oath to not use your other citizenship (the exception being in the other country where you are a citizen)."

Did you get a copy of this? They wouldn't give me one--I'd like to know what I really agreed to.


bammazmx

Jan 20, 2010, 10:42 AM

Post #19 of 40 (9004 views)

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Re: [esperanza] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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I think everybody is in agreement with your statement.

This is an altogether different issue.


mazbook1


Jan 20, 2010, 6:32 PM

Post #20 of 40 (8956 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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gpkisner, No, I didn't get a copy, but I read everything thoroughly and (a little brag here) my comprehension of formal, legal Spanish is very near 100%. Much, much above my comprehension when reading a Spanish language newspaper or Spanish language literature or even listening to normal Spanish language conversation. Also, it had just been a few months since the furor over Calderón's naturalized Secretario de Gobernación, something which I had followed closely in the Spanish language press, as it happened while my naturalization was in process.

bammazmx, Technically, the papers you signed were a renunciation of your U.S. citizenship—as far as the Mexican government is concerned—so even traveling onward from the U.S., the Mexican government would say you had to use your Mexican passport. BUT unless you inadvertantly directly returned to México from some country that you had traveled to on your U.S. passport, the Mexican government would never know. I too would probably use my U.S. passport when traveling elsewhere FROM THE U.S., but I would be darn sure that I returned to México from the U.S.


bammazmx

Jan 24, 2010, 7:02 PM

Post #21 of 40 (8871 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Here is the latest results of my investigation.

After many hours searching the internet there are very few references to SIMILAR situations as this. The most conclusive statement I have read... many times... is basically.... "citizens of multible countries that are traveling, are required to present the required documentation as it pertains to the host county of the passport they are using"

The website for general canadian imigration www.cic.gc.ca and the website for the embassy here in Mexico www.canadainternational.gc.ca both refer to travel by mexican citizens as well as US citizens, but I cant find anything covering this situation. The closest thing I found is there is a referance to a Mexican citizen that has legal residence in the US (green card) can enter canada by showing a mexican passport and their "green card". That sounds interesting but not conclusive in this case.

I emailed my specific question to the general information section at the canadian embassy here in mexico and they sent me a "automatic" reply to contact the visa department ..... I emailed the visa department and the sent me an "automatic" reply refering me to the www.canadianinternational.gc.ca website .... so in short... nobody wants to bother reading my question and give a definate answer. As usual when you are part of a "minority" you get pushed off.

Finally.... My wife due to her fluent spanish did call directly to Mexicana airlines here in Mazatlan. It went something like this.... First person.... "I dont know let me connect you with my supervisor" .... supervisor..... " I dont know let me connect you to my supervisor"..... Second supervisor.... "Hhhmmmm... that is a good question... I think a US passport would be ok" .... "No there is no documentation saying this is ok that I know of" .... "But I think , Yes I would permit your husband to board the plane"

???????????????????????????????????????????

Well that was an answer.... but not too reassuring!!!!!!!

We still plan to call Aeromexico, we have their phone #, still plan to call Westjet, cant find their phone #.... but the quest continues.

It appears to me that their may never ( at this time ) be a clear answer.... therefore probally is best to apply for the VISA.


rockydog85251

Jan 24, 2010, 8:07 PM

Post #22 of 40 (8857 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Try calling the toll free numbers for several airlines and ask to speak to their international department.....if they don't know. they can usually find out for you or refer you to someone that has the answer. Buena suerte.

US Airways
Alaska Airlines


Both fly into Canada.......
Willie


arbon

Jan 25, 2010, 8:39 AM

Post #23 of 40 (8810 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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"Until February 28, 2010, Canadians will not be required to carry a passport to enter Mexico. However, in order to avoid delays and misunderstandings, we strongly recommend that you travel with a passport valid for six months after your arrival date. It is the only universally accepted identification document, and it proves that you have a right to return to Canada. Mexican immigration authorities recommend the use of a passport to expedite passage through ports of entry and Canadian citizens arriving in Mexico from a third country without a passport may be denied entry. Although a passport is not required for entry into Mexico, most airlines departing from Mexico are now refusing boarding to Canadians returning to Canada without a valid passport. We strongly recommend that Canadians carry a valid passport for all air travel to Mexico in order to ensure they may board their return flight to Canada.

As of March 1st, 2010, all Canadian citizens will need a valid passport to enter Mexico. Canadian citizens without a valid passport will not be allowed entry into Mexico and will be returned to Canada."

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/mexico-mexique/consul/visas.aspx#Entering

Exit regulations – MEXICO
Under Mexican legislation (Art. 12, Ley de Nacionalidad), holders of dual Canadian and Mexican citizenship are required to enter and leave Mexico as Mexican citizens. Those who contravene the law may incur heavy fines (Art. 33-1, Ley de Nacionalidad). More information on Mexican dual nationality is provided by the Mexican Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



roxyrohit

Jan 26, 2010, 9:28 AM

Post #24 of 40 (8720 views)

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Re: [bammazmx] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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he passport requirement does NOT apply to U.S. citizens traveling to or ... card is only valid for land and sea travel between the U.S. and Canada, Mexico, ...Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative
[url="http://www.carpartswarehouse.com/carmodels/CP1/Audi/S8.html"]Audi S8 Parts


bammazmx

Jan 26, 2010, 10:07 AM

Post #25 of 40 (8710 views)

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Re: [arbon] US/MEX Citizens traveling to canada

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Quote
Exit regulations – MEXICO
Under Mexican legislation (Art. 12, Ley de Nacionalidad), holders of dual Canadian and Mexican citizenship are required to enter and leave Mexico as Mexican citizens. Those who contravene the law may incur heavy fines (Art. 33-1, Ley de Nacionalidad). More information on Mexican dual nationality is provided by the Mexican Ministry of Foreign Affairs.


I was aware of (Art. 12, ley de nationalidad) This is what my original question was based on. As this applies to me also as Dual US/Mex citizen. The point is I have to leave Mexico using my Mexican passport as a Mexican citizen.

In my last post I said the people at the Canadian embassy in Mexico City sent me an autoreply simply refering me to their website (No Help). However yesterday I actually got a personal responce. Here it is.....
This is in response to your e-mail sent on January 21st, 2010


Be informed that you can leave the Mexican Territory and you can come back holding the two passports. When you leave Mexico use the American Passport, therefore you will be requested to show your legal status in Mexico showing an FM, FMI, FM2 or FM3, but as the matter of fact you will need to show your Mexican passport in order to demonstrate that you are a Mexican national as well. When comming back, use the passports on the same way.

I already replyed to them that this may indeed be fine by them.... but I Know it is NOT fine from the mexican governments point of view!!!!!! The mystery continues.


(This post was edited by bammazmx on Jan 26, 2010, 10:10 AM)
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