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arbon

Jan 22, 2010, 12:33 PM

Post #1 of 33 (6539 views)

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Time is not money in Mexico.

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Time is not money in Mexico.

But "Time" in Mexico is not like time any where else I have been or worked, at any time.

And the "Money" in Mexico, some places in Mexico don't use (much) of it, they seem to barter (like we did/do to a certain extent in Canada)
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Reefhound

Jan 22, 2010, 1:16 PM

Post #2 of 33 (6515 views)

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Re: [arbon] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Manuel, nice parting shot in the other thread before it was locked. Touche'. But if you cannot look at those overcrowded Houston freeways and see the connection to an economy that attracts millions of Mexicans in search of "a better life", then you share in the lack of hope.

It was not my intent to debate the quality of life. You glossed over the part where I conceded that one could make the case that a laid back unhurried lifestyle may be a more pleasant life to live. But it's not, in my OPINION, conducive to a strong and vibrant economy.

Time IS money, even in Mexico. Perhaps they value time more but you reap what you sow.

arbon

Jan 22, 2010, 1:40 PM

Post #3 of 33 (6506 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"Time IS money, even in Mexico. Perhaps they value time more but you reap what you sow."

You will "Reap" more if you learn how important the planting "Time" is.
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Manuel Dexterity

Jan 22, 2010, 2:25 PM

Post #4 of 33 (6479 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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It was not my intent to debate the quality of life. You glossed over the part where I conceded that one could make the case that a laid back unhurried lifestyle may be a more pleasant life to live. But it's not, in my OPINION, conducive to a strong and vibrant economy.

Time IS money, even in Mexico. Perhaps they value time more but you reap what you sow.

Reefhound

Jan 22, 2010, 3:16 PM

Post #5 of 33 (6466 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"When you are talking about a strong and vibrant economy you would have to be joking if you're talking about the USA. An unsustainable economy based on rampant consumerism."

They have been saying that the last 30 years now.

"When the sh*t hits the fan the gringos won't be able to handle it."

If so, it'll hit south of the border in spades, just like this last recession. If Mexico cannot be prosperous with windfall oil revenues and remesas (aka "free money"), two of it's top three industries, what will it be like without them?

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Jan 22, 2010, 3:19 PM)

Reefhound

Jan 22, 2010, 3:19 PM

Post #6 of 33 (6464 views)

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Re: [arbon] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"You will "Reap" more if you learn how important the planting "Time" is."

Exactly. And when it is prime time to plant, you had best be working hard and not taking three hour lunches if you want a bountiful harvest.

arbon

Jan 22, 2010, 3:57 PM

Post #7 of 33 (6446 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"And when it is prime time to plant, you had best be working hard and not taking three hour lunches if you want a bountiful harvest."

Not necessarily.

You may start at dawn, and if it gets too hot you take a meal time in the shade, and then work until dark.

"Seedlings" also need the shade of an East West hill of mounded soil.

But I just remembered "Sunday" in the Baja the lettuce and pepper seedlings were ready to plant (and starting to wilt), but no workers.
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gpkgto

Jan 22, 2010, 4:20 PM

Post #8 of 33 (6433 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"a strong and vibrant economy"? The economy of Mexico is the 11th largest in the world. The distribtution of wealth is more a problem than the economy.

smokesilver

Jan 22, 2010, 5:10 PM

Post #9 of 33 (6416 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Time is not money in Mexico.

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And it is fast becoming the same NOB.

La Isla

Jan 22, 2010, 6:08 PM

Post #10 of 33 (6401 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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I don't know anyone who takes three (!) hour lunches here, and many people just have a sandwich at their desk. Mexican friends of mine seem to work very hard at their jobs, often for not a lot of money and often have to work on Saturday, without the benefit of overtime pay.

Hound Dog

Jan 22, 2010, 6:26 PM

Post #11 of 33 (6397 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Time is not money in Mexico.

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When you are talking about a strong and vibrant economy you would have to be joking if you're talking about the USA. An unsustainable economy based on rampant consumerism. When the sh*t hits the fan the gringos won't be able to handle it. Makes me shudder to think of what measures they might take in their attempt at regaining prosperity.

Well said, Manuel. I would now tell you what Dawg thinks which is in line with your thoughts but you are such a contrary sumbitch you would probably do a 180 just to piss me off.

By the way. I see, upon arrival after an eight month absence, that there are still trees in Chiapas despite your best efforts.

arbon

Jan 22, 2010, 6:26 PM

Post #12 of 33 (6395 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Time is not money in Mexico.

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La Isla,
you have the quotes out of order, and you are talking about people working in an office.

(that may very well be air conditioned)
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Manuel Dexterity

Jan 22, 2010, 6:32 PM

Post #13 of 33 (6386 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Well said, Manuel. I would now tell you what Dawg thinks which is in line with your thoughts but you are such a contrary sumbitch you would probably do a 180 just to piss me off.

By the way. I see, upon arrival after an eight month absence, that there are still trees in Chiapas despite your best efforts.

We left a few for the mutt to raise his leg on but if you aren't nice to me those will soon be sawdust.

Manuel Dexterity

Jan 22, 2010, 6:35 PM

Post #14 of 33 (6382 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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[
Exactly. And when it is prime time to plant, you had best be working hard and not taking three hour lunches if you want a bountiful harvest.

Now how would someone from Houston know anything about the work habits of people in Mexico? Must have read it somewhere. Probably on some dork's blog about their "adventure" relocating to Mexico.

La Isla

Jan 22, 2010, 6:52 PM

Post #15 of 33 (6365 views)

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Re: [arbon] Time is not money in Mexico.

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La Isla,
you have the quotes out of order, and you are talking about people working in an office.

(that may very well be air conditioned)

I just responded to the quotes in the order I found them on this thread. Since I live in Mexico City, my friends mostly work in offices and schools, but they don't just sit around all day waiting for lunch hour to arrive. No air conditioning here since the climate is generally benign. I'm not sure what all of this has to do with 3-hour lunches anyway....

Reefhound

Jan 22, 2010, 8:37 PM

Post #16 of 33 (6330 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Now how would someone from Houston know anything about the work habits of people in Mexico? Must have read it somewhere. Probably on some dork's blog about their "adventure" relocating to Mexico.

Um, probably more Mexicans in my city than most of the people on this board.

Manuel Dexterity

Jan 23, 2010, 5:32 AM

Post #17 of 33 (6291 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Yeah? So? There are probably more Italians in NYC than Houston. Does that make NYC residents experts on Italy?

Hound Dog

Jan 23, 2010, 6:23 AM

Post #18 of 33 (6285 views)

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Re: [arbon] Time is not money in Mexico.

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"And when it is prime time to plant, you had best be working hard and not taking three hour lunches if you want a bountiful harvest."

Not necessarily.

You may start at dawn, and if it gets too hot you take a meal time in the shade, and then work until dark.

I understand that farmers in parts of France get up and toil at or before dawn and then, in the morning, return home for breakfast which might include a strong pousse cafe with a favorite regional distilled spirit before returning to the field reinvigorated.

In the vineyards of the Napa and Sonoma Valleys where we lived for a number of years, all vineyard workers as well as most winery workers are Mexicans and I have never seen such competitive and hard working people. The vineyard workers are paid based on their productivity so there is very little if any malingering unlike the banks and federal regulatory agencies where Dawg "worked" for years where the extended three martini lunch was the order of the day.Which career would you choose? Dawg got paid well to have fun just like those Wall Street clowns that nearly sank the U.S. ship of state but Dawg had no part in that. I did have a friend who left the Comptroller of the Currency (the nationally chartered bank regulatory agency) in the 1980s to help design, implement and sell securitized mortgages that recently became so infamous. He retired a very rich man while those "lazy" Mexicans who were said not to value time were working their butts off in the vineyards for peanuts.

In the U.S., the chickens finally came home to roost when the financial bubble burst. As Gomer Pyle used to say, "Surprise, surprise, surprise!"

By the way, I worked for several years as a national bank examiner and it may interest you to know that the national bank regulatory agency was funded by fees from the banks they were charged with regulating and the San Francisco Regional Administrator of National Banks in those days (the 1970s) had an opulent office in the Bank of America building in that city´s financial district with a spectacular view of the city and bay. Any national bank field examiner who irritated the big, powerful banks by insisting on fundamental prudence in lending found him/herself semi-permanently assigned to Fresno.

Not being a total idiot Dawg got out of the regulatory business and became a commercial loan business development manager one of the duties of which position required Dawg to entertain fatcat clients with those extended business lunches. Sigh!

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jan 23, 2010, 6:33 AM)

Reefhound

Jan 23, 2010, 8:08 AM

Post #19 of 33 (6251 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Time is not money in Mexico.

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How about we dispense with the anecdotal stories and pull out some statistics on measured productivity, average working hours, etc.? Are you disputing that the average Mexican works fewer hours?

Anyway, my point was not calling anyone "lazy". Don't even try that straw man. My point about the Mexicans in Houston was in response to your unfounded insinuation that I had no exposure to Mexicans other than reading online. The Mexicans here work incredibly hard, but of course here they are paid based on productivity not by the day or week.

I too love Mexico and it's people. I too like the slower pace of life. And I thought I made it clear several times that that way of life is not a bad thing, just not economically efficient and productive. My response was about the attitude expressed in the other thread that oh well just close the store for a few days or don't worry about anything. Just accept whatever happens and don't complain. And this thread and many others here, where we speak of "Mexico time". My point was simply that actions have consequences and in my opinion (I even capitalized it before so feel free to disagree) that such attitudes have negative consequences in an interleaved global economy.

richmx2

Jan 23, 2010, 12:24 PM

Post #20 of 33 (6206 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Is productivity the only measure of prosperity? Are more and more consumer goods, which imply higher levels of consumption, the only way to measure the "health" of an economy?

There are alternative measures (being used in France and elsewhere ) that take into account "quality of life" things like access to health care, ability to meet basic needs (however they are defined within a society), leisure time, etc.

However one defines "work", it certainly gets done here, and people's basic needs are (with seriously large exceptions) being met. Whether "increased productivity" will fill those gaps though, is based on assumptions made by economists in consumerist, not producer, cultures.

http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

robt65

Jan 23, 2010, 1:51 PM

Post #21 of 33 (6188 views)

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Re: [smokesilver] Time is not money in Mexico.

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What do you mean "fast becoming"? It has been for many years, we NOB, are maybe applying a little more finesse and not quite so blatant about it. At least that's what most of our politicians, doctors, lawyers, (faith) ministers, banks and insurance companies would try to have us think!

Robert

(This post was edited by robt65 on Jan 23, 2010, 1:59 PM)

wendy devlin

Jan 23, 2010, 2:37 PM

Post #22 of 33 (6172 views)

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Re: [robt65] Time is not money in Mexico.

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This thread's contents leaves my viewpoint, somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea.

On one hand, am aware that some Mexicans hold a cultural yardstick/ value judgement that as a people, 'we work to live'.

Their critical and often well-voiced preception is that some peoples north of the Mexican border, ' live to work'. Mostpeople of my friendship/acquaintenance in Mexico hold this particular cultural standard, to be 'superior'.

Conversely, north of the border, some people evaluate Mexican business practices etc. as 'low productivity' against their own practices especially in regards to efficiency coefficients and industry standards. They in turn, hold their cultural standard on this topic, to be 'superior'.

Superior verses superior.
Both viewpoints being culturally entrenched. Hardly a platform, for compromise.

Compromise, in my opinion, being the way forward in conflict resolution.
Others would argue, compromise, is weakness, a backward position, even.

I perceive most economic/cultural issues, from both sides as best as my understanding goes. Trouble seems, compromise is not nearly as popular, or as economically desirable as other strategies.

Reefhound

Jan 23, 2010, 3:06 PM

Post #23 of 33 (6163 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Time is not money in Mexico.

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There are alternative measures (being used in France and elsewhere ) that take into account "quality of life" things like access to health care, ability to meet basic needs (however they are defined within a society), leisure time, etc.

However one defines "work", it certainly gets done here, and people's basic needs are (with seriously large exceptions) being met. Whether "increased productivity" will fill those gaps though, is based on assumptions made by economists in consumerist, not producer, cultures.

For the third time, I am not talking about "quality of life", I'm talking about the economy. And quit putting words in my mouth, I didn't say anything about material possessions or "prosperity".

However you define it, I don't see how anyone could consider an economy "healthy" or "working" when millions of people have to flee it to another country to find the jobs their own economy could not generate, and to send back money to support those left behind. But an economy is a complex system and I was not prescribing any end-all solution, just offering my opinion of ONE of the things that would help.

Wendy, no no no no no no. I did not and was not saying higher productivity is "culturally superior". I was saying that there is cause and effect, that if you want A then you need to do B. You may certainly decide that A is not worth doing B but then don't be surprised when you don't have A. You want to be a couch potato and eat junk food then expect to gain weight. You want to be fit and feel good then be prepared to eat well and exercise.

Manuel Dexterity

Jan 23, 2010, 4:14 PM

Post #24 of 33 (6141 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Time is not money in Mexico.

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For the third time, I am not talking about "quality of life", I'm talking about the economy.

I did not and was not saying higher productivity is "culturally superior". You may certainly decide that A is not worth doing B but then don't be surprised when you don't have A. You want to be a couch potato and eat junk food then expect to gain weight. You want to be fit and feel good then be prepared to eat well and exercise.

If you are not arguing that one is superior to the other your example of healthy or unhealthy contradicts that.

How about....I am going to spend all day Sunday with my extended family at a barbecue. This might go on a little late. So I might not get a whole lot of work done Monday morning.

vs.

I am going to take a job where I must commute 2 hours each way. That makes 4 hours a day x 5 or 20 hours a week. But I have the latest flat screen TV and a BMW in the garage. Oh and not to mention I take medication for several stress related illnesses.

Reefhound

Jan 23, 2010, 5:05 PM

Post #25 of 33 (6133 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Time is not money in Mexico.

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Fine, whatever. You're hell bent on parsing my words to find an argument.

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