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jerezano

Jan 5, 2010, 6:56 AM

Post #1 of 37 (5816 views)

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Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Hello All,

This is the first really bad news I have yet seen about our Mexico existence:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...ng-m,0,6871169.story

I can't say enjoy on this article from the Chicago Tribune. Only thing I can say is take
note. And I'm surprised that Brian hasn't already posted this for us.

Hasta luego. jerezano.


(This post was edited by jerezano on Jan 5, 2010, 6:58 AM)



Gringal

Jan 5, 2010, 10:02 AM

Post #2 of 37 (5739 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Kind of sours a person on the concept of "Road Trip". What an awful experience, and obviously not drug related.


carlw

Jan 5, 2010, 11:36 AM

Post #3 of 37 (5706 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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In a similar story, a San Diego family (mother, father, teenage boy and girl) who regularly travel into Baja for car races and vacation time, new truck towing a race car trailer, returning to San Diego. They got to the hotel where they had reserved a room, room not available, they decided to proceed since it was only 5 hours to the border. It was dark already. In the middle of nowhere, Police car stops them. Policeman gets out, another car pulls in front so they cannot leave, 5 pick up trucks show up, one of the captors drives their truck off the road into the hills. They stop at an isolated spot miles from anything, told to lie down in a ditch and their heads cover with blankets. Captors say they are going to shoot them. Captors look in trailer, no race car in there. After about 20 minutes, family look up, everything and everyone is gone. Family walks for hours, find a house where someone rushes out and starts shooting at them. They run away, eventually find a small community, start knocking on doors. eventually a lady lets them in, calls police, 2 police in a truck come for them and drive them to San Diego. This has been several weeks ago, family no longer sleeps, teenage son has become morose and a recluse, they realize captors have all their ID and residential information. Eventually, U.S. State Dept. employee calls, says she is sorry but the husband's body was found in Tijuana (it was not he, he was at home but body had his wallet and ID). Family says no, not he, but State Dept. keeps calling back wanting to return the body to them. After 3rd call, they say, no, we don't want him back, thanks anyway. No more calls.

All this was on one of the news type shows last week, 20/20 or 48 Hours, I forget which one. DO not drive after dark!


Reefhound


Jan 5, 2010, 1:17 PM

Post #4 of 37 (5674 views)

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Re: [carlw] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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And if you do, don't stop for cops on the highway.


Hound Dog

Jan 5, 2010, 2:35 PM

Post #5 of 37 (5643 views)

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Re: [carlw] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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DO not drive after dark!

OK. carlw, I get your drift. Let´s put things in perspective and to do that I will tell you one on many stories I could tell you of life in the United States.

In the 1970s we lived in a quaint Alabama rural area along the western shore of Mobile Bay where the Fowl River empties into the bay at a place known as Mon Louis Island. A marvelously beautiful bayou country; mysteriously enchanting; enthralling, lonely and somewhat frightening with deserted back country lanes leading up to river and bayou front properties of endless charm.

One night we decided to drive the 12 miles from our honeymoon river/bayfront cottage to the beach at Dauphin Island on the Gulf and after about three miles I realized we were running on empty in our MG convertible so I decided to turn around and head back north to that cottage and suddenly and without warning we found that we were being pursued by some redneck trash who, as it turned out, had been following us down that deserted bayfront road without our having noted that fact and, apparently, these earthscum were intent on robbing or even killing us and this was serious business. We were able, by accelerating as fast as possible, to reach, once again, the private driveway to our secluded bayfront shack and entered our home, arming ourselves upon arrival, with our standard 38 Police Revolver and planning to shoot those sons á bitches without remorse but those bastards never had the nerve to follow us into our lair so we are still here 36 years later. Sheer luck.

Do any of you seriously think Mexico is more dangerous than the Gulf coast of Alabama or the back woods of Mendocino County in Northern California on deserted highways through the back woods after dark or the roads of Northern Baja on the way to the U.S. border? Where-ever you are driving; use your common sense. Stop blaming human corruption on Mexico.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Jan 5, 2010, 2:54 PM)


tepetapan

Jan 5, 2010, 2:44 PM

Post #6 of 37 (5627 views)

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Re: [carlw] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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"In a similar story, a San Diego family (mother, father, teenage boy and girl) who regularly travel into Baja for car races and vacation time, new truck towing a race car trailer, returning to San Diego. They got to the hotel where they had reserved a room, room not available, they decided to proceed since it was only 5 hours to the border. It was dark already. In the middle of nowhere, Police car stops them. Policeman gets out, another car pulls in front so they cannot leave, 5 pick up trucks show up, one of the captors drives their truck off the road into the hills. They stop at an isolated spot miles from anything, told to lie down in a ditch and their heads cover with blankets. Captors say they are going to shoot them. Captors look in trailer, no race car in there. After about 20 minutes, family look up, everything and everyone is gone. Family walks for hours, find a house where someone rushes out and starts shooting at them. They run away, eventually find a small community, start knocking on doors. eventually a lady lets them in, calls police, 2 police in a truck come for them and drive them to San Diego. This has been several weeks ago, family no longer sleeps, teenage son has become morose and a recluse, they realize captors have all their ID and residential information. Eventually, U.S. State Dept. employee calls, says she is sorry but the husband's body was found in Tijuana (it was not he, he was at home but body had his wallet and ID). Family says no, not he, but State Dept. keeps calling back wanting to return the body to them. After 3rd call, they say, no, we don't want him back, thaks anyway. No more calls."

************************* This story is years old, I see it every year posted and last winter I spent hours tracking it down on the internet. Even last year the TV news ran the story like it just happened, I wrote them and complained about being mislead and got no reply. I might be wrong but I doubt it.



Hound Dog

Jan 5, 2010, 3:02 PM

Post #7 of 37 (5618 views)

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Re: [tepetapan] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Reply To
"
************************* This story is years old, I see it every year posted and last winter I spent hours tracking it down on the internet. Even last year the TV news ran the story like it just happened, I wrote them and complained about being mislead and got no reply. I might be wrong but I doubt it.


An Apocryphal yarn. An urban legend. Nonsense. I thought so. As George Costanza said to Jerry Steinfeld, "If you really belive it it´s not a lie."



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lamur

Jan 5, 2010, 3:10 PM

Post #8 of 37 (5605 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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So....is it an urban legend or a true story that just isn't current?

L


Gringal

Jan 5, 2010, 3:12 PM

Post #9 of 37 (5602 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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If this isn't exciting enough, try living in Northern California where marijuana growers lurk to defend their fields.


Hound Dog

Jan 5, 2010, 3:30 PM

Post #10 of 37 (5593 views)

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Re: [lamur] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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So....is it an urban legend or a true story that just isn't current?

Most urban legends are composites of remembrances of actual events that took place or may have taken place , more or less, as recounted by the story teller but with accents that please that story teller and are, therefore not objectively remembered. That´s OK by me. Nothing is as it appears to be whether occurring as we experience them or in historical perspective. You see things through your own prism and I through mine. Get used to it.




morgaine7


Jan 5, 2010, 3:57 PM

Post #11 of 37 (5575 views)

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Re: [lamur] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Quote
So....is it an urban legend or a true story that just isn't current?

This was discussed on a Baja forum. Apparently it happened in 2007. You can watch the family tell the story on http://www.cbs.com/ and decide for yourselves. Just enter "live to tell" in the search box. It's called "Live to Tell: Kidnap on Highway 1".

Kate


rockydog85251

Jan 5, 2010, 4:24 PM

Post #12 of 37 (5555 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Our BIG question has always been....what the H*** were they doing driving at that time of night?
Willie


Brian

Jan 5, 2010, 5:24 PM

Post #13 of 37 (5526 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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"Our BIG question has always been....what the H*** were they doing driving at that time of night"

They were driving home on the Tijuana-Ensenada toll road. It is not a deserted highway and is relatively well-lit. The incident occurred within 1 1/2 miles from the international border. I used to live in that immediate area and regularly commuted to San Diego Padres games and frequently didn't get home from work until 11PM. The most dangerous thing on that road, at that hour, was drunk drivers with their headlights off. These people did nothing wrong. They were trying to relive the good times that so many Southern California gringos have enjoyed. Now it is mostly Mexican Americans with families in the area who still travel to Baja and even those do so with some trepidation. "It didn't use to be like this".

Brian


frito

Jan 5, 2010, 6:20 PM

Post #14 of 37 (5501 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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But that's the point...at any given time after the sun sets in the U.S. there are millions driving on country roads, rural highways, Interstates. Unless they get in an accident or pick up up a crazed hitchhiker the overwhelming majority make it to their destination safely. And yet for as long as I can remember I've seen it recommended to not drive in Mexico after dark. Who says that in the U.S.? It may upset Mexicophiles but it's just not a fair comparison to say the U.S. is just as bad. I prefer to think of Mexico and the U.S. as a symbiotic relationship. They need the jobs offered in the U.S., the tourists to come spend money there. We need cheap labor(sad but true), and a beautiful escape from our too ordered existence. Might be simplistic, but it's never really been the U.S. good, Mexico bad, or vice-versa. But there are serious differences between the two, and people who venture north or south of the border should be aware of the negatives as well as the positives. Otherwise we live in a world of propaganda.


Reefhound


Jan 5, 2010, 6:46 PM

Post #15 of 37 (5482 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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1-1/2 miles from the border, there is NO WAY I am going to notice any flashing lights at that point. Sorry officer, had the radio up really loud, was fumbling for my documents.

If the car isn't a marked police car with permanent light bars, I'm not stopping anywhere.

I think what strikes people so much about the crime and violence in Mexico as opposed to in the U.S., regardless of whether the risks are the same or greater in the U.S., is that people feel that they cannot trust the Mexican police or soldiers or other other authorities. In many cases there seems to be Mexican police intimately involved. So who do you turn to for help? On top of that, Mexico prohibits you from arming yourself for your own protection.


Brian

Jan 5, 2010, 6:48 PM

Post #16 of 37 (5477 views)

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Re: [frito] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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" And yet for as long as I can remember I've seen it recommended to not drive in Mexico after dark."

As one who began driving regularly in Mexico in the early seventies, the reason for this time-honored recommendation is the fact that ranchos are unfenced and animals were often loose on the roads. At night, especially in Baja, they like to take advantage of the asphalt which retains the heat generated during the days. Fear of banditos wasn't the reason not to drive after dark.

I have also been guilty of using the inane response to criticism of Mexico which goes "yes, but that happens in the USA as well". It wasn't that long ago when I was living in TJ that someone said some uncomplimentary things about Baja right here on MexConnect. I told him that I felt safer in Tijuana than when I made a trip to see my daughter in Washington, DC. He said I was delusional and was just trying to seek validation for a decision I had made to live in a questionable part of Mexico. Then the DC snipers began to wreak havoc in that part of the US.

For health reasons, I have returned to live in the US. I belong to local message boards and there have been episodes of residential break-ins which have included kicking in doors when the residents have been away from home. If I were to write that "sure this is bad here in Austin but these crimes also happen all the time in Mexico" I think people would say it is a stupid comparison and, most important, irrelevant to the issue at hand. They would be right...

Brian


Reefhound


Jan 5, 2010, 7:55 PM

Post #17 of 37 (5447 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Brian, I really doubt the number of car/goat collisions is a remote fraction of the car/deer collisions in the U.S. According to State Farm, there are over 150,000 deer collisions every year involving several hundred fatalities and thousands more seriously injured. Granted, a lot of that is due to sheer numbers of cars on the road but the danger remains. I just drove to Kentucky from Texas over the holidays, driving through Arkansas we passed group after group of deer standing beside the road. Must have been hundreds altogether. Lots of cars whizzing by at 70mph plus.

Has anyone seen any statistics concerning car/animal collisions in Mexico? I would have to think if the animals were being hit with any kind of frequency that they would be tied up. A goat to a poor Mexican peasant is their source of livelihood. They don't likely carry insurance and they can't afford to be losing their animals. I drive at night all the time in Mexico but I'm mainly on the highways on the Laredo to Queretaro route. All the animals I've seen by the road - mostly around Saltillo - have been tied off. In major urban areas, animals are not a problem but you have to keep a sharp eye for pedestrians and bicycles.


lamur

Jan 5, 2010, 8:03 PM

Post #18 of 37 (5438 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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I've seen many MANY dead animals alongside the roads. They just cover them with lime. It's not goats you have to worry about...it's horses and cows. You hit a big bull who's napping on the nice warm pavement and you can pretty much kiss your grits goodbye.

The last time we were Lakeside there were three horses hit out past Vista Del Lago. I was appalled that they just left them there....and then amazed at how fast the lime worked.


Manuel Dexterity

Jan 5, 2010, 8:10 PM

Post #19 of 37 (5437 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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I have lived in Mexico for many years, driven countless kilometers on its highways and I have yet to see a goat as victim of a motor vehicle. Cattle, burros, horses and of course dogs and other small animals more times than I can count. But not goats. They seem to be too nimble and possibly possess some kind of an early warning system.


frito

Jan 5, 2010, 8:50 PM

Post #20 of 37 (5424 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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I agree with much of what you say. There's also the practice of rolling large rocks into the road as an advance warning of a breakdown, then leaving them there. But RockyDog, as many others I've seen over the years, questioned what they were doing driving after dark, as if they should know better. When you have others chiming in that the U.S. is just as bad I just want to point out that most people in the U.S. drive at night without giving it a second thought, not considering that doing so puts them at risk. Also it should be pointed out that if you are white, live in a middle class neighborhood, never venture into poor neighborhoods, statisticly you have little chance of being the victim of a violent crime. Also as mentioned Mexican police don't have the best reputation. Don't know the current situation but it was widely reported years ago in Mexico City that the police were involved in many of the kidnappings that were happening. Crime victims there often didn't report the crime due to possibly getting victimized again by the police. Again, not saying Mexico is a bad place. But it's a different world from the U.S. and new people reading here shouldn't be given the idea that it's no different than what they experience back in Des Moine or wherever.


Gringal

Jan 6, 2010, 7:46 AM

Post #21 of 37 (5340 views)

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Re: [frito] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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The questionable nature of the police (your friend or your problem?) is something that is worrisome about living in Mexico. Back in California, the Highway Patrol was exemplary for being upright, but you never knew about some of the cops in the big cities. Some were both brutal and corrupt. Remember Rodney King? However, it wasn't a problem most middle class, light skinned people ever encountered. Here, police problems are equal opportunity.


tepetapan

Jan 6, 2010, 8:11 AM

Post #22 of 37 (5327 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Quote
So....is it an urban legend or a true story that just isn't current?

...
To me it is not about burros on the road, driving at night but why did the news media air a story 3 years old and imply it was something current? Jon stewart´s daily show got FOX last month showing pictures of past gatherings and implying it was a current event, CBS has run this story before making the public believe it is a new story.



Brian

Jan 6, 2010, 8:38 AM

Post #23 of 37 (5312 views)

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Re: [tepetapan] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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The event occurred a little more than two years ago. The video describes the date and time when it happened. Here is the San Diego UT article. The father of the family loved Mexico and misses the fact that they can not return, certainly not psychologically. The story is about the family. To that extent it remains timely.

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/...2/news_1m22baja.html

Brian


(This post was edited by Rolly on Jan 6, 2010, 8:43 AM)


tepetapan

Jan 6, 2010, 10:00 AM

Post #24 of 37 (5286 views)

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Re: [Brian] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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as was written..........................

Stories of at least six armed assaults have been shared by travelers through the Internet and by word of mouth. Some, but not all, of the cases have been determined by authorities as credible...................

Once again,this happened nearly 27 months ago and still being reported as a current event. people reading this forum are looking for real time information, not opinoins, history lessons or stories that really are not relevent. As far as we know he is back in Mexico enjoying a margrita on the beach. The fact is we do not know since time has passed and wounds have healed.


Hound Dog

Jan 6, 2010, 11:02 AM

Post #25 of 37 (5263 views)

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Re: [tepetapan] Oh! Ouch! ĦAy! The first really bad news from Mexico

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Once again,this happened nearly 27 months ago and still being reported as a current event. people reading this forum are looking for real time information, not opinoins, history lessons or stories that really are not relevent. As far as we know he is back in Mexico enjoying a margrita on the beach. The fact is we do not know since time has passed and wounds have healed.


Thank you tepetapan:

I enjoyed Gringal´s responses to this story of people being assaulted on back country highways or other motorways in Mexico by criminal elements when she reminded us of what transpires if one travels the back roads of Northern Califonia or (for that matter) the bayou lands of South Alabama or the mean streets of Detroit incautiously which, in fact, can result in a similar assault and even death whether one is in Mexico or France or Upper Volta. These overwrought tales are grist for racist mills. Knock it off. I spent 59 years of my life living in the Kluxer swamps of South Alabama, the mean Black Panther streets of Central Oakland, the deteriorating, crime ridden streets of San Francisco´s Haight and now, the Zapatista stronghold of Chiapas and I am tiring of hearing Mexico, a victim of the irresponsible behavior of selfish and self-destructive Americans, branded as the villian in a scenario in which it is the victim. You drive about on the back roads of Durango or Alabama or California in the middle of the night and your ass is in your hands.
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