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robt65

Dec 8, 2009, 4:07 PM

Post #26 of 70 (10661 views)

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Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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Sorry to Upset You SanFranDan,

I read every response and much of it had to do with taking work away from others and also one specifically told aout not even being allowed to take his tools into Mexico and was refused entry. I thought it was pretty relevant and was hoping to find some positive feedback. I sure didn't mean to steal your thunder or topic as the case may be. . . .this was not my intent.

Robert


SanFranDan

Dec 8, 2009, 4:09 PM

Post #27 of 70 (10658 views)

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Re: [robt65] Deported

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WELL YOU DID!!! Haha just kidding...

Bring your tools...dont get caught working with them....


Vince3n


Dec 8, 2009, 4:19 PM

Post #28 of 70 (10655 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Deported

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Well, what we have here is that the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense.

Looks like ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) could learn a thing or two from INM...is that what ya'll think?

Regards,

Vince


mazbook1


Dec 8, 2009, 5:39 PM

Post #29 of 70 (10626 views)

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Re: [Vince3n] Deported

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Actually, "Well, what we have here is that the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense." is EXACTLY the way Homeland Security' ICE works! Also, the U.S. State Department, when issuing any type of U.S. Visa, warns the recipient that the Immigration Agent (ICE) at the border (or first U.S. airport) can refuse entry to any person, regardless of their visa status, for no stated reason and that refusal cannot be appealed.

Furthermore, the U.S. State Department Consular Services, the folks who actually issue visas, can also act as "…the judge, prosecutor and punishment are all rolled into one. No checks, no balances, no appeals and no-nonsense." My wife (Mexican) was refused a fiancée visa to the U.S. with the stated "reason" of "attempted visa fraud", something my U.S. immigration lawyer told us was totally unappealable. We got married and I became a Mexican citizen. So much for that sort of nonsense.

And robt65, that person with the tools who was refused entry was trying to get in the U.S. from Canada, not into México from the U.S. I've known many, many folks with only FM3 non-working visas who brought in huge quantities of home-workshop sorts of tools with absolutely no problem whatsoever.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 8, 2009, 5:49 PM)


Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 5:53 PM

Post #30 of 70 (10620 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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mazbook1, you are talking about *entry* into the country. There you are right, ICE is allowed "expedited removal" when attempting to enter illegally, apprehending crossing a border illegally, or caught within 100 miles of the border and cannot show having lived here at least two years (that's a new and controversial one), and convicted felons. All other deportations require a hearing before a judge and includes an appeal process.

What esperanza (to whom vince made the comment) was talking about was a case of a person already living in the country for some time, rounded up, and deported immediately without even being able to take their stuff. In the U.S. that would require a court hearing with right to a lawyer and appeals.


mazbook1


Dec 8, 2009, 6:05 PM

Post #31 of 70 (10611 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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reefhound, You obviously don't read the news. Hundreds have been deported with only a passing nod to being able to have what you say, "In the U.S. that would require a court hearing with right to a lawyer and appeals." Why do you think so many, not only "liberals" are up-in-arms against the obviously illegal actions taken by ICE and the U.S. Justice Dept.? No lawyers appointed, no translators appointed and immediate validation of the ICE actions by their chosen judge.

The only difference between the Mexican INM action and similar ones for working illegaly in the U.S. is that he didn't have to rot in some detention hell-hole for weeks before his deportation.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 8, 2009, 6:10 PM)


TlxcalaClaudia

Dec 8, 2009, 6:49 PM

Post #32 of 70 (10590 views)

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Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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I wasn't deported but I had my visa taken away. And it was unjust...it was paid plus updated with all the necessary papers. A bribe was being asked, I refused. Lesson learned...do things the way of the land (in my case I mean I should have gone in with my husband or boss...not alone!). I was in a smaller city and alone . Hubby had to return NOB quickly in the middle of my papers being updated. During final round when I had to go in alone with the last set of papers being asked, the jerk agent wanted to take advantage of the situation. If he were serious, they would have deported me...but instead he ripped my visa and showed me the door and told me I no longer had a right there. Yep, I was mad as hell...but you can't win. Go back; stay under the radar. You'll either get over it and come to accept there are just SOME things you can't change...or you'll stay away. It sucks sometimes.


Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:08 PM

Post #33 of 70 (10579 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Deported

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mazbook, you clearly have an axe to grind over the deal with your fiance but you haven't a clue on the issue within the U.S.

The liberals are upset (you know, the liberals control all three branches of govt now, right?) because "expedited removal" was expanded from apprehension of those caught illegally crossing at the border to those caught within 100 miles of the border.

Hundreds have been deported? What a joke. Of course, they have. There are tens of thousands of illegal aliens serving time in our prisons for violent crimes. Over 1.5 million illegally cross the border every year. When ICE raids a manufacturing plant and catches 100 illegals, they are checked against criminal records. Fugitives are subject to "expedited removal", the rest are assigned court dates and most are released on bond. Does Mexico even have an immigration court?

We can start whipping out the news links and references if you want to get to the bottom of it.


Rolly


Dec 8, 2009, 7:17 PM

Post #34 of 70 (10574 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Come on, folks, lets not stray into US politics. There enough bad stuff in México to talk about without looking NoB for problems.

Rolly Pirate


Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:18 PM

Post #35 of 70 (10572 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Some undocumented immigrants swept up on minor charges such as fishing without a license won’t face federal detention. Instead, they’ll be released on their own recognizance under an Obama administration directive to a Nashville, Tenn., sheriff who charged 6,000 people with immigration crimes over the past 2-1/2 years.
The “release on recognizance” order by Immigration and Customs Enforcement – a branch of the US Department of Homeland Security – could affect at least some of the 66 US law enforcement jurisdictions that are part of a controversial program which, in essence, deputizes local police to act as de facto immigration agents.
http://features.csmonitor.com/...e-could-be-released/
And these are illegals that were actually arrested for a violation, however minor. Try going to Mexico with no documentation, getting arrested for something minor, and then getting released.
We have millions of illegals working in the U.S., several hundred thousand just in Houston. Heck, the city of Houston has set up several work centers so the illegals have a safe place to gather looking for day work. And ICE has assured city officials they will not bother them. Show me one site like that in the entire country of Mexico.
There's no comparison at all.


Reefhound


Dec 8, 2009, 7:25 PM

Post #36 of 70 (10566 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Deported

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Sorry, was creating post before you posted. If you want to remove the facts and references then also remove the unfounded allegations that they rebutted. To equivocate that immigrants are handled the same in the U.S. as in Mexico is asinine. The fact is that ILLEGAL immigrants in the U.S. have 100x more rights than LEGAL immigrants in Mexico.


Rolly


Dec 8, 2009, 7:32 PM

Post #37 of 70 (10560 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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We try very hard to keep USA politics off this board. Sometimes it's hard to resist. Me too.

Politics are more welcome by our friend Scott Parks over at his place: http://expatsmexico.setbb.com/forum.html

See you over there.

Rolly Pirate


Zorba

Dec 8, 2009, 9:12 PM

Post #38 of 70 (10528 views)

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Re: [SanFranDan] Deported

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What if you have obtained Mexican citizenship? Can that be revoked from foreigners who obtained it through the immigration process?


esperanza

Dec 8, 2009, 9:16 PM

Post #39 of 70 (10523 views)

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Re: [Zorba] Deported

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Citizenship is not obtained through the immigration process--i.e., through the Insituto Nacional de Migración. Citizenship is obtained through the Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores--the Secretary of External Relations.

And yes, citizenship can indeed be revoked.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Vince3n


Dec 9, 2009, 4:10 AM

Post #40 of 70 (10501 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Mexican immigration law...looks like their citizens come first and also second.

Here, we even have immigration lawyers advertising their services on TV. Their services range from avoiding deportation to legalization of immigration status.

Reefhound, Thank You for answering my question.


Zorba

Dec 9, 2009, 5:18 AM

Post #41 of 70 (10491 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Deported

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"And yes, citizenship can indeed be revoked"

Do you know for what reason/s it could be revoked? How likely/unlikely? Just curious.


(This post was edited by Zorba on Dec 9, 2009, 5:20 AM)


gpkgto

Dec 9, 2009, 8:23 AM

Post #42 of 70 (10451 views)

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Re: [Zorba] Deported

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Esperanza will give the definitive answer here, but I remember on the papers I signed when I got my citizenship it said I could lose it if I ever denied being a Mexican citizen while in Mexico. I suppose this would refer to denying it to a policeman or other official of some kind or in some legal document. I don't intend to test it--I am proud of my Mexican citizenship.


Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 9:42 AM

Post #43 of 70 (10435 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] Deported

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I just remembered something else (not political) with regards to the appeals or lack of appeals in deportation. The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar.

Does Mexico offer similar options? Could the examples of prompt removal from Mexico posted earlier be a case of them (I believe they were asked to sign papers) "agreeing" to leave rather than risk prosecution? If one is deported, may they ever return and if so, when?


Bethie

Dec 9, 2009, 5:16 PM

Post #44 of 70 (10371 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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"The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar."

Just to correct you, those who "voluntary depart" still get the 10 year ban. Whether you voluntarily depart or are deported, you MAY file for a "waiver of inadmissibility" form I-601.



Vince3n


Dec 9, 2009, 6:10 PM

Post #45 of 70 (10354 views)

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Re: [Bethie] Deported

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At any rate, you can still file for a waiver; while in Mexico the incentive to have your property and possessions seize at will is there to stay, isn't it? I guess that taking this chance is the price one must pay for "the good life".

On the same train of thought, I heard that back in the early eighties, Mexico decided to nationalize the banks.
In the process they converted all foreigners saving accounts from U.S. dollars into pesos. They ruined overnight thousands of expats retires. Can anyone can shed some light?.


Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 6:43 PM

Post #46 of 70 (10338 views)

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Re: [Bethie] Deported

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In Reply To
"The U.S. offers in most cases (except criminals or security risks) something called "voluntary departure" where the person concedes they are removable, waives all appeals, and agrees to leave promptly on their own. The benefit is they remain eligible to enter legally in the future whereas those involuntarily deported are subject to a strict ten year bar."

Just to correct you, those who "voluntary depart" still get the 10 year ban. Whether you voluntarily depart or are deported, you MAY file for a "waiver of inadmissibility" form I-601.


"Voluntary departure" is subject to 5 year ban. As you mentioned, one can apply for a waiver. I have no data on the percentage of waivers granted versus denied. There are probably very few since they would probably require the applicant to be otherwise eligible for entry at time of application. If they were able to achieve eligibility in less than 5 years they probably would have done so in the first place.

I was actually thinking of a similar program called "voluntary return" which is used for most border apprehensions. Under this program, there are no penalties or bars.


Manuel Dexterity

Dec 9, 2009, 7:11 PM

Post #47 of 70 (10327 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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Where does it say deportation means your property and possesions are forfeited or seized? You do not have to be physically present in the country to own property.


mazbook1


Dec 9, 2009, 7:24 PM

Post #48 of 70 (10322 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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And I agree with you again, M. Dexterity. I would bet that those deported from México in this manner are back within México in a few days with a new, shiny FMT. But I bet they would think twice about working illegally here!


Reefhound


Dec 9, 2009, 7:24 PM

Post #49 of 70 (10319 views)

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Re: [Manuel Dexterity] Deported

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Good point. If you are deported or expelled you just have to arrange for someone to handle things on your behalf.


Manuel Dexterity

Dec 9, 2009, 7:56 PM

Post #50 of 70 (10305 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Deported

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In Reply To
Good point. If you are deported or expelled you just have to arrange for someone to handle things on your behalf.


Which is quite different from the "having your possesions and property seized at will" inflamatory rhetoric.
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