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Hound Dog

Oct 17, 2009, 6:13 PM

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The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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You folks want to speak of Veracuz but listen to this.

Veracruz is a huge Mexican state not simply a plaza in a decadent urban regenerated ex-cesspool with fine music and dancing and great food. It is both a mountain and a seafront place. The tallest mountain in all of Mexico is Mount Orizaba in Veracruz State and the most desolate sea level oill exploitative PEMEX hell hole is there as well and the state is not simply swamplands and snow covered volcanoes and fecund valleys growing everything from coffee to sugar cane and pineapples but a place of extraordinary beauty. A fine place not simply given over to dancing and rum and dark rich coffee but also a place of ugly towns and unrelentant poverty. If you do not overblow your expectations here you will discover great beauty but if you expect more than you will find here you will leave disappointed. Just like the rest of the planet.

There is something unsettling to Dawg about this need to wallpaper over the dismal universe that seems to be exacerbated by the introduction of northern malcontents to the tropics. A turd is still a turd no matter how you describe it but a turd is also illustrative of all that is wholesome about life here and everywhere. Learn to live with it..

RickS

Oct 17, 2009, 7:38 PM

Post #2 of 21 (13083 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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And this is in reference to???

Oh wait.... I remember. Bubba writes, Bubba reads, Bubba smiles. Bubba is happy.

Hound Dog

Oct 17, 2009, 9:41 PM

Post #3 of 21 (13072 views)

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Re: [RickS] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Hey, Rick:

I like writing for discerning readers even if they see through me. (Bubba smiles)

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Oct 17, 2009, 9:43 PM

Post #4 of 21 (13073 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Whhaattt???? ¿¿¿Que dijo???
Bubba The Hound Dog...I agree with you since Xalapa has been my home for the past 37 years. You can see life here through rose colored glasses, and yes, the poverty in every sense of the word can be totally disheartening, but in general the good Lord has been extremely generous letting me live here all these years.(¿Que dijo?). Enough rambling on my part.
Just come down and experience this part of México, and each one can make up their own mind.
¡Portense mal y cuidense bien, sin mirar a quien!
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

Zorba

Nov 25, 2009, 12:31 AM

Post #5 of 21 (12067 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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I agree. Veracruz is a jewel. One of my favorites. I love above all Chiapas, Puebla, Veracruz, and Oaxaca.
Tajin is one of the coolest ruins in Mexico and La Costa Esmerelda one of my favorite spots. Let's not forget
to mention the San Andres area. We could go on and on. And now only about a 2 hour drive from Puebla
which has the largest colonial centro in all of Mexico (World Heritage Site).

(This post was edited by Zorba on Nov 25, 2009, 12:33 AM)

Hound Dog

Nov 25, 2009, 3:38 PM

Post #6 of 21 (11952 views)

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Re: [Zorba] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Well, what the hell, Zorba, you had to ressurect this thread about Veracruz State and I, for one, am totally pleased because Roy´s forum has been languishing lately simply because, it seems to me, there are so few Veracruzanos and lovers of this marvelous state reading and posting hereabouts. Roy´s Xalapa is a fine and sophisticated city; the state´s capital and a university town with many fine restaurants and the state has endless attractions from Pico Orizaba to Lake Catemaco to The Tuxtlas and on and on and it is the home of fabulous cuisine and very good coffee and memorable music and mosquito infested coastal swamps adjacent to or near to cool mountainous highland wonderlands. As for cities; a fine mixture of African and Caribbean and Latin cultures. Unique music and dance. A treasured place. A jewel. What the hell am I doing in Chiapas?

gpkgto

Nov 26, 2009, 8:01 AM

Post #7 of 21 (11850 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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I just spent a week in Verzcruz--my first visit. The humidity was suffocating, but otherwise a great place to visit. Terrific seafood and some beautiful scenery. I especially liked my visit to Tlacotalpan--photo attached. With the new Arco Norte highway open we made it from Irapuato to Veracruz in 8 hours including a one-hour lunch stop in Puebla and lots of bathroom stops along the way. Bypassing DF and Mexico state makes the whole south of Mexico open to easier exploration.

Attachments:

VeracruzNov2009 054 - copia.JPG (52.9 KB)

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Nov 26, 2009, 9:38 AM

Post #8 of 21 (11822 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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¡Hola, amigos costeños! Wow!!! Tell me more about this Arco Norte to get around the "DFectuoso". Maybe I'll even dust off my Ford Escape(I only use it 2 or 3 times a month since I live in downtown Xalapa) to take a trip west of Xalapa. I want to visit San Luis Potosi at the Turbo bicycle factory, as well as heading to Guadalajara and Tapalpa.
We have our "chipchipi" now in Xalapa, which is wonderful because everything stays a lush green.
Come visit, Hound Dog Bubba!
¡Hasta pronto!
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

gpkgto

Nov 27, 2009, 8:10 AM

Post #9 of 21 (11681 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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The friend who did all the driving told me (this is from Guanajuato to Veracruz):

Take the cuota from Irapuato to Queretaro, continue same road from Queretaro towards Mexico City.

58 kilometers passed the Palmillas caseta de cuota there is a new exit that says either/both: Puebla/Arco Norte de la Ciudad de Mexico.

Take this exit and you are on the new cuota all the way to Veracruz (passed Cordoba and Orizaba)

Tolls from Irapuato to Veracruz were almost 800 pesos.

Just a note--there are no PEMEX stations open yet on this new road--some are under construction.

We had great views (due to clear weather) of Popocatéptl (with steam) and el Pico de Orizaba.

RickS

Nov 27, 2009, 3:10 PM

Post #10 of 21 (11619 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Thanks for that info..... but could you be a bit more specific?

Reason? You say, "58 kilometers pass the Palmillas caseta de cuota there is a new exit that says either/both: Puebla/Arco Norte de la Ciudad de Mexico. Take this exit and you are on the new cuota all the way to Veracruz (passed Cordoba and Orizaba)"

My Guia Roji does not have a Palmillas in any of the states where this road would have to be. So when you say "after Queretaro go towards Mexico" and then "passed Cordoba and Orizaba" there are several hundred kilometers of unknown. Can you fill in the 'middle section' a little better for us?

Thanks again for posting this new cuota. If it is what it appears to be, it will truly open up the southern states to easier exploration!

(This post was edited by RickS on Nov 27, 2009, 5:38 PM)

gpkgto

Nov 27, 2009, 5:27 PM

Post #11 of 21 (11588 views)

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Re: [RickS] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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This unknown is the new Arco Norte which has been open about 2 months. The Palmillas info came from my friend who did the driving--I was a passenger looking at the scenery. If you get on the regular, OLD cuota from Queretaro to Mexico city, you will pass this exit--which is marked as I described. The Arco takes you right on the edge of Puebla (we stopped there for comida) and then proceeds towards Veracruz over the Cumbres de Maltrata and passed Cordoba and Orizaba.
I don't think this new road is on any map yet--but it is open. Sorry I can't really explain it in any more detail.

(This post was edited by gpkisner on Nov 27, 2009, 5:30 PM)

Hound Dog

Nov 28, 2009, 5:58 AM

Post #12 of 21 (11508 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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The drive from Chapala to Fortin de Las Flores between Orizaba and Córdoba before this new cuota was right at 11 hours going through Mexico City via Morelia and then another seven hours to San Cristóbal de Las Casas the next day. The drive through the heart of Mexico City from Santa Fe to the eastern edge of the city on the Puebla highway generally takes from one hour to 1 1/2 hours. It sounds as if this new autopista via Queretaro and Puebla skipping Mexico City altogether will be the new direct way to the Chiapas Highlands, Palenque, Tapachula and Guatemala from Lake Chapala and Guadalajara. Tourism is very important in Chiapas and other southern states and this new cuota may be helpful in bringing in more tourists from the northwest. I must admit that, while driving through Mexico City is always an adventure, I won´t miss that mid-trip eye-opener with its always lurking crooked cops.

Hound Dog

Nov 28, 2009, 6:12 AM

Post #13 of 21 (11503 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Hola, amigos costeños! Wow!!! Tell me more about this Arco Norte to get around the "DFectuoso". Maybe I'll even dust off my Ford Escape(I only use it 2 or 3 times a month since I live in downtown Xalapa) to take a trip west of Xalapa. I want to visit San Luis Potosi at the Turbo bicycle factory, as well as heading to Guadalajara and Tapalpa.
We have our "chipchipi" now in Xalapa, which is wonderful because everything stays a lush green.
Come visit, Hound Dog Bubba!
¡Hasta pronto!
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

You´re on Roy. In the past we have skipped Xalapa and Veracruz City staying in Fortin de Las Flores when driving between Lake Chapala and Chiapas. Perhaps now we can overnight in the Veracruz City/Xapala area or perhaps Coatepec where, you will recall we met a while back. Then, perhaps, instead of the rather dull autopista from Córdoba toward Minatitlan we can drive instead down through the beautiful Veracruz countryside through the Tuxtlas and Lake Catemaco before picking up the autopista south of the lake. Maybe I´m just dreaming but we´ll give it a try on our next trip to Chiapas this winter. I feel another detailed travelogue coming up in January.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 28, 2009, 6:14 AM)

Hound Dog

Nov 28, 2009, 4:30 PM

Post #14 of 21 (11419 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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There are some very informative posts on this new cuota called Arco Norte on the Traveling Mexico Forum including a website that explains a great deal about this new - and important - way to bypass Mexico City when heading south from Central or Northwestern Mexico. This is an important new highway which will make vacationing from Veracruz to all of Southeastern Mexico far easier than it was before this highway opened.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 28, 2009, 4:32 PM)

joaquinx

Nov 28, 2009, 5:26 PM

Post #15 of 21 (11403 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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"Traveling Mexico Forum". Got an URL?
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

gpkgto

Nov 28, 2009, 5:30 PM

Post #16 of 21 (11399 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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It's another Mexico Connect forum--hit the forum index.

Zorba

Nov 29, 2009, 4:43 AM

Post #17 of 21 (11315 views)

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Re: [gpkisner] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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"As for cities; a fine mixture of African and Caribbean and Latin cultures. Unique music and dance. A treasured place. A jewel. What the hell am I doing in Chiapas?"

Sometimes I wonder the same thing. I think I actually prefer the atmosphere in Veracruz. Also, Chiapas is so far away from the rest of the country it seems (not just geographically). People are much less likely to visit you in Chiapas. Then again, that may be a good thing. Veracruz has the advantage of being closer to the rest of the country. I am fond of colonial architecture, so I am a bit biased about the value of being close to central Mexico. Then again, Chiapas certainly has some quaint colonial towns if I need some of that. Your colonial paradise, Dawg, is only a few hours drive so I guess that aint bad.

I didnt end up choosing Veracruz primarily due to cost. The ranches in Veracruz are already highly coveted and expensive, for the most part due to their proximity to the D.F. The cheaper ones are swamp land mostly. Buyer beware.

Other than that, although the Costa Esmarelda is spectacular, I much prefer the ability to leave early for Huatulco and be there by noon.

(This post was edited by Zorba on Nov 29, 2009, 5:00 AM)

Hound Dog

Nov 29, 2009, 7:22 AM

Post #18 of 21 (11291 views)

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Re: [Zorba] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Sometimes I wonder the same thing. I think I actually prefer the atmosphere in Veracruz. Also, Chiapas is so far away from the rest of the country it seems (not just geographically). People are much less likely to visit you in Chiapas.

Some good points, Zorba. Don´t forget, however, that my darlin´ wife is French and Europeans are much more attracted to places such as Chiapas than Americans so we get more vistors, both family and friends, from Europe in Chiapas than we have ever hosted at Lake Chapala - a place in which most Europeans we know have shown little interest in comparison with Southeastern Mexico. Most of our American family and friends, on the other hand, are pretty much uninformed about Chiapas and have shown little interest in Southeastern Mexico outside of popular beach areas primarily on the Caribbean or Pacific.

When we started thinking of leaving "Lakeside" in 2003, our primary focus was on Mérida, Cuernavaca, Oaxaca and Veracruz City. Veracruz turned out to be rather expensive for what we wanted around Boca del Rio and environs and the climate on the coast is too hot and humid for us after those two years in the 70s when we lived in Mobile in the hot,humid soup there. Mérida also has a stifling climate most of the time. The Oaxaca City and Cuernavaca areas are still attractive to us but one of the things we like about San Cristóbal in addition to the beauty and historical interest of that area, is that it splits the difference among places we like to visit from Oaxaca State to The Yucatan Peninsula to Veracruz State. We figure that from San Cristóbal we can travel easily to many attractive Southern Mexico beach areas choosing from the Pacific, the Gulf and the Caribbean when San Cristóbal gets a bit too cold for us. We can also easily drive to Oaxaca City, Mérida, Veracruz or Guatemala in a day from the Chiapas Highlands and that appeals to us.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 29, 2009, 7:51 AM)

Zorba

Nov 29, 2009, 12:53 PM

Post #19 of 21 (11232 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Good thinking. You are nicely located. Have you been to Tikal yet ? If so, how long did it take?

(This post was edited by Zorba on Nov 29, 2009, 1:00 PM)

Hound Dog

Nov 29, 2009, 4:33 PM

Post #20 of 21 (11191 views)

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Re: [Zorba] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Have you been to Tikal yet ? If so, how long did it take?

We have been to Tikal, Zorba, but that was years ago when we flew in from Guatemala City about 1982 or so. We could drive from San Cristóbal to Tikal which, oddly enough, is north of San Cristóbal and much of Chiapas, but we have not done so as of yet. That is something we would like to do and I must add that to my wish list. I think it would be a long drive. Tikal is our favorite Maya ruin so far and, while we have not been to them all and will never achieve that goal, Tikal is a marvelous place worthy of a serious visit. An extraordinary ruin in a beautiful jungle.

Favorite ruins that one has visited is a highly subjective subject but that doesn´t mean I can´t publish my favotites list regardless of what others may think. If one does not like my list of favorite abandoned Maya cities that I have visited, based, by the way, purely on esthetics and not historical importance, list your own.

OK. Here goes:

1) Tikal
2) Tulum (based on fabulous location on a beautiful Caribbean beach)
3) Palenque
4) Uxmal
5) Toniná
6) Yaxchilan
7) Bonampak
8) Coba
9) Chichen Itza
10) Chinkultic

OK. So this list is meaningless. I had fun sorting through places to which I would return in order of the pleasure they provided me.

Zorba

Nov 30, 2009, 12:26 AM

Post #21 of 21 (11131 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] The Veracruz You Do Not Know

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Thanks Dawg. I will make note of those.