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sanjuan

Nov 10, 2009, 7:17 AM

Post #26 of 33 (7748 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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I don't know why foreigners get upset about developments like this. It is a nice looking development. I wouldn't like to live there as they are ticky tacky boxes but they sure sell. It is good for the local economy as many local people work there (not the greatest pay but better than no work) and the contractors buy some stuff locally. The infrastructure may not be adequate and the process of getting the permit may not have been above board but why should I care. If the local Mexicans allow these developers to do things this way why should I tell them any different? It is their country. I don't have a vote and can't influence things.


Georgia


Nov 10, 2009, 11:47 AM

Post #27 of 33 (7708 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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Actually, in this case, the locals started their own association to protest. They don't usually hire locals, but bring in their own workers from Guadalajara who sort of "camp out" there while building the houses. The homes are ordinarily occupied by weekenders from Guadalajara, not locals, and they bring in their stuff from Guad and leave their garbage behind. The local Mexican association of villagers brought all this to the attention of the government, not foreigners. Originally it was because the developer cut off the main road through the village, forcing the villagers to have to walk up to the highway and along it to get to their church. Previously there was a ciclopista where they could walk on the highway in safety, but as a consequence of this development even that is gone. It is now a dangerous walk to church. Then the villagers started worrying about sewage. Before another developer upgraded the system the villagers' homes would flood with raw sewage during the rainy season. So, that is again a worry for them because there is no evidence of improvement to the sewage treatment plant which is woefully inadequate for this massive development.

In general, however, I do agree, San Juan, that foreigners have no business telling Mexicans how to run their lives. But this is a Mexican protest, not a foreign one. I think the Mexicans do as fine a job of running their lives as most other countries, and we generally should butt out of their business.

El Chante, as Hound Dog will assure you, is a modest little village and I have lived here a long time. These villagers are my friends and neighbors, so what bothers them, bothers me. However, I don't think much will come of the protesting and all that. Progress marches on .... and over.


esperanza

Nov 10, 2009, 12:13 PM

Post #28 of 33 (7697 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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<snip>...
Progress marches on .... and over.

As I have said a million times, not all change is progress.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









La Isla


Nov 10, 2009, 3:59 PM

Post #29 of 33 (7665 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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In Reply To
<snip>...
Progress marches on .... and over.

As I have said a million times, not all change is progress.[/reply"

And not all "development" is an improvement over what has gone before.


(This post was edited by La Isla on Nov 10, 2009, 4:00 PM)


Hound Dog

Nov 10, 2009, 5:07 PM

Post #30 of 33 (7654 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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I don't know why foreigners get upset about developments like this. It is a nice looking development. I wouldn't like to live there as they are ticky tacky boxes but they sure sell. It is good for the local economy as many local people work there (not the greatest pay but better than no work) and the contractors buy some stuff locally. The infrastructure may not be adequate and the process of getting the permit may not have been above board but why should I care. If the local Mexicans allow these developers to do things this way why should I tell them any different? It is their country. I don't have a vote and can't influence things.

Well, sanjuan:

The monstrous and incredibly ugly development of ticky-tacky on Jocotepecīs east side reminds me of another place from my youth. In the 1950s and 1960s, Gulf Shores/Orange Beach Alabama was a small community on the Gulf of Mexico with splendid sugar white expansive beaches mostly dotted with modest but attractive beach cottages interspersed with somewhat tacky concrete block commercial buildings to serve the mostly seasonal community of summer vacationers. It was considered community wisdom in those days to build modest structures as hurricanes frequent that coast and minimal investment in commercial and residential structures seemed prudent. Then, in 1979, along came Hurricane Frederick which basically blew Gulf Shores/Orange Beachside residential areas away and, after that, the developers moved in and, with the collaboration of greedy local urban planners, walled off those beautiful beaches with repulsive high rise concrete condominium developments and a beachside treasure of irreplacable charm and beauty was lost forever. No governmental agency tried to stop it and the poverty stricken locals were, at the time, pleased to see all these high-rise concrete boxes built to house the snowbirds and Birmingham lawyers and bankers and all the locals could think of was all that money that would be flowing into the cash-strapped beach towns from places as disparate as Wisconsin and Canada and Tennessee and then the town as it had been was gone and I havenīt been there since the 1980s but whatever locals may think today of those snowbirds attracted to their beaches, they probably donīt really care for them personally.

And, Georgia, I am quite fond of El Chante. I have no idea how you came up with this notion that I find El Chante ratty. Actually, considering the travesty that is occurring west of there with the construction of this future urban slum, El Chante could be the next Carmel.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 10, 2009, 5:11 PM)


sanjuan

Nov 13, 2009, 7:21 AM

Post #31 of 33 (7577 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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My gardener, who lives in nearby San Juan Cosala, says they hire many local workers including young men he knows. My contractor, who keeps an eye on these things and just bought a house there with his brother, says about half the workers are local. Although the contractors bring much of the contruction material in do spend a lot locally. It is a real shot in the arm for the local economy.

In Reply To
Actually, in this case, the locals started their own association to protest. They don't usually hire locals, but bring in their own workers from Guadalajara who sort of "camp out" there while building the houses. The homes are ordinarily occupied by weekenders from Guadalajara, not locals, and they bring in their stuff from Guad and leave their garbage behind. The local Mexican association of villagers brought all this to the attention of the government, not foreigners. Originally it was because the developer cut off the main road through the village, forcing the villagers to have to walk up to the highway and along it to get to their church. Previously there was a ciclopista where they could walk on the highway in safety, but as a consequence of this development even that is gone. It is now a dangerous walk to church. Then the villagers started worrying about sewage. Before another developer upgraded the system the villagers' homes would flood with raw sewage during the rainy season. So, that is again a worry for them because there is no evidence of improvement to the sewage treatment plant which is woefully inadequate for this massive development.

In general, however, I do agree, San Juan, that foreigners have no business telling Mexicans how to run their lives. But this is a Mexican protest, not a foreign one. I think the Mexicans do as fine a job of running their lives as most other countries, and we generally should butt out of their business.

El Chante, as Hound Dog will assure you, is a modest little village and I have lived here a long time. These villagers are my friends and neighbors, so what bothers them, bothers me. However, I don't think much will come of the protesting and all that. Progress marches on .... and over.



(This post was edited by sanjuan on Nov 13, 2009, 7:26 AM)


Hound Dog

Nov 14, 2009, 8:18 AM

Post #32 of 33 (7497 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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Georgia writes:

"El Chante, as Hound Dog will asure you, is a modest little village....".

Reminds me (since Georgia is an attorney) of the self-deprecating Senator Sam Ervin whose eloquence was legendary.

"Ahm jest a simple country lawyah from Nawth Cahlina."

Total Hogwash with a Capital "H".

When that "lawyah" was finished with you you were stripped of even bus change and were standing there in your shorts going, "What the hell happened?".

El Chante is a charming slum if Dawg has ever seen one. Georgia knows this and her false modesty does not fool The Dawg. When we moved to Gringolandia in 2001 we bought in Ajijic because we werenīt sure if we could stand Sun City South and wanted to buy in a town where properties (at least in those days) turned in case we wanted out. Well, you see how that turned out since we have had a home in Chiapas move-in ready since 2006 and havenīt even considered selling the Lakeside house in this terrible market. If we had to do this again - pick a retirement coimmunity that is - El Chante would be one of our first choices. You have to be able to see beyond the warts and there are home treasures to be found there. I kid you not and you know who knows that which is the reason for this ongoing tete a tete meant to be amusing.

Speaking of Southern Good Ole Boy shysters, I do, indeed, understand the technique. I was a federal bank examiner for the Comptroller of the Currency for a few years in San Francisco and this ole boy, right out of the alligator infested bayous of Mobile County, Alabama just up from the Gulf would sit across the table from those high falutin San Francisco bankers who just knew, the minute I opened my mouth that I was an ignorant rube pushover. They later paid a price for that predisposition. Hell, I could wipe the floor with those dudes and be enjoying a double Stoli dry martini straight up by 2:00PM in a Financial District bar and, to a large extent, just because they inevitably underestimated the Baron of The Piney Woods. Much fun was had by the bumpkin in those days. Georgia donīt fool The dawg.








(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 14, 2009, 8:26 AM)


Georgia


Nov 19, 2009, 10:22 AM

Post #33 of 33 (7382 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Building in el Chante, Mun. of Jocotepec

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Got me, Dawg. I leave hyperbole to politicians and bankers.
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