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Yaxchibonam

Nov 10, 2009, 12:59 PM

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San Juan Copala

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Amigos,
Is there anyone who can clearly explain why the governor of Oaxaca is waging war with the Triquis in San Juan Copala, and why the town is being attacked by paramilitaries? What is the issue?

Also, is there transportation available to get there from Oaxaca? I am trying to get in touch with a small group of women to give them some knitting looms and yarn to make warm hats for children and toddlers.

Thanks!
Yaxchi

raferguson

Nov 10, 2009, 3:04 PM

Post #2 of 10 (4605 views)

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Re: [Yaxchibonam] San Juan Copala

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I would assume that if you asked the people of San Juan Copala, and the government, you would get two totally different and incompatible answers, and be none the wiser for it. ;-) Similarly, if you ask someone of leftist leanings, you would get one answer, and another from a conservative person.

I would assume that your personal politics lean to the left, so your inclination would be to believe the leftist story rather than the government story, but of course that does not prove that the leftist story is true. The trick is to identify a knowledgeable person who does not have a political or ideological ax to grind. After somebody tells you their story, ask them what political party they are sympathetic to, which should identify their ideology.

And of course, it is possible or even probable that neither side is telling the truth, only saying what serves their purpose or cause.

A lot of these disputes go back a long time, and center on land disputes, which the government often does not want to settle, if only because it would cost them votes. Squatters are often part of the story. Sometimes the dispute is largely internal, where people are basically being expelled from their village, perhaps because they are now members of a different church, and don't want to buy alcohol for the village fiestas. In Chiapas there are entire villages of people expelled from their home village for that reason.

Good luck on figuring out the truth on this one. A truly independent journalist would be the best bet. Unfortunately, those are few and far between, as we are discovering in the USA, where again you get totally different stories from Fox news and MSNBC.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

Hound Dog

Nov 10, 2009, 3:37 PM

Post #3 of 10 (4596 views)

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Re: [raferguson] San Juan Copala

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Thank you for that intelligent and balanced response, Richard.

Just change the word Oaxaca to Chiapas and there you have it. These are two of the three states I love most in Mexico (the other being Yucatan) and we have a home in San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas and a home, whenever we need it, among friends in Teotitlan del Valle, Oaxaca. The longer we tread these beautiful places the more we realize how complex social issues are in the region and how little we know.

I say this as a center leftist politically. Both Oaxaca and Chiapas attract many foreigners or Mexicans from other regions sincerely dedicated to leftist causes and there is nothing wrong with that but some leftist (and rightist) movements expoit strangers who can´t possibly really understand what they are walking into initially.

When I was a young man studying in Tuscaloosa as a University student, SNIC attracted naive young people to Mississippi to engage in voter registration drives in the black community. A noble effort. However, these people had no idea of the social cauldron they were entering. Goodman and Lerner had no idea how dangerous the Meridian area was in those days.

I can tell you as a resident of San Cristóbal de Las Casas, the town and surrounding Zapatista strongholds attract large numbers of righteously indignant people getting off the bus from Tuxtla Gutierrez and I don´t criticize them in any way since I remember the days of the "Children´s Crusade" in Birmingham but I´ll tell you that, if nothing else they leave the town wiser. Nothing changes unless those committed to change actively engage in worthy struggles. As for Dawg, I am now beyond that stage of my life.

As Jim Croce wrote in song long ago, Don´t mess with people you don´t know.

All that having been said, I wish the OP the best of luck and commend her commitment to a cause.

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 10, 2009, 3:40 PM)

mcm

Nov 10, 2009, 5:02 PM

Post #4 of 10 (4582 views)

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Re: [Yaxchibonam] San Juan Copala

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Yaxchi,

I did a Google search on San Juan Copala and Ulisses Ruiz, governor of Oaxaca.
Here's a link to a La Jornada article from April, 2008, that gives a bit of the story -- try a google search, and see what else you come up with. I'm sure there are followup articles.

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2008/04/24/index.php?section=politica&article=016n1pol

And, for a more opinion oriented view: http://www.narconews.com/print.php3?ArticleID=3066&lang=en

By the way, the first response to your post kind of said it all....

(This post was edited by mcm on Nov 10, 2009, 5:06 PM)

Hound Dog

Nov 10, 2009, 6:01 PM

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Re: [Yaxchibonam] San Juan Copala

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This kind of event happens quite a bit in Chiapas and it is best to stay away until the dust settles.

The triquis formed a new community and declared it autonomous, which means that the non Triquis in the area got to lose their land. The same happened in some part of the Chenahlo municipality, part of the St Andres Larrainzar municipality amongst a few. It is all about power and land and they are two sides to every story.

The government defends the status quo, how could they be on the side of people who do not recognize them as their legit government.
The sad part about the whole thing is that a few people gain and the majority of the people lose.

Go and visit Zapatista villages in Chiapas and try to find out what is happening with the money send from Europe and other places to support the movement. Does not appear to benefit the average people who live in the Zapatista villages in total poverty and without the aid that many other villages receive. Meanwhile lots of people end up in San Cristobal as they have been kicked out of the places where they have lived for generations.

Unless you are from the area it is best not to judge anybody and keep the relationships you have on a personal level without involving yourself in the politics nor taking sides in a battle that is not yours.

VICHIL

(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 10, 2009, 6:35 PM)

Yaxchibonam

Nov 10, 2009, 6:51 PM

Post #6 of 10 (4550 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Juan Copala

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Thanks for the information. I stayed in Chiapas long enough to know what you are talking about, visited Acteal, etc., and the comparison you draw with San Juan Copala and similar situations is apt. I have good friends in Chiapas who lost all their land to the Zapatistas and are now in a very precarious financial situation. I also got a sense of the righteousness of the left, that doesn't seem to be backed up with much analytical thinking or long term commitment on the ground. And yes, I am an izquierdista.

I was just curious about the situation in San Juan Copala because I knew I was only getting one side of the story from Narco News. I am still interested in finding out more details, but as you said, will probably never will get the whole story.

I have a Mixe friend in Oaxaca who told me that up in the mountains where she is from, the villages are always feuding with each other, though it hasn't gotten to the dangerous point yet. Many Mexicans have told me that the whole independent municipality thing has been nothing but trouble, and keeps small communities dirt poor and constantly in upheaval.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and reminders to steer carefully through the ideological maze. I will take it to heart. Though I am not at all fond of the governor...
Yaxchi

raferguson

Nov 10, 2009, 11:54 PM

Post #7 of 10 (4527 views)

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Re: [mcm] San Juan Copala

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Thanks to mcm and hound dog for your nice comments on my original note.

To belabor the obvious, La Jornada is a leftist newspaper. In fact, when I looked for information about San Juan Copala, it seemed like all the available information was from obviously leftist sources. Sometimes you did not even have to read the web page, in that the domain name revealed their ideology.

If the only people writing about San Juan Copala are leftists, that makes it quite a bit harder to figure out the truth, in that the other side is not presenting its side of the story. I am not sure how to figure out the truth if all you can read is one side of the story.

Stepping into a situation where violence is occurring, where you don't and can't fully understand the situation, is obviously inherently dangerous. Worse, the local language is not Spanish, but Triqui, limiting further your understanding.

Good luck, but be careful.

Richard

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

Hound Dog

Nov 11, 2009, 6:35 AM

Post #8 of 10 (4514 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Juan Copala

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When I was a young man studying in Tuscaloosa as a University student, SNIC attracted naive young people to Mississippi to engage in voter registration drives in the black community.

Damn. This probably means nothing to anyone but Dawg but I meant SNCC (The Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee), not SNIC. The organization was always pronounced "snic". Seems trivial, I know, but leftist movements are not famous for their sense of humor. Is there still a SNCC? Probably gone with the wind.

Good luck in your endeavors but look for potential enemies on all sides, none of them readily apparent and all of them dangerous to you.

Yaxchibonam

Nov 15, 2009, 9:37 PM

Post #9 of 10 (4441 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] San Juan Copala

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Thanks, AND you'd be amazed at how invisible a middle-aged gringa can be to authority figures, and this is true everywhere in the world....

PS: I want to talk turkey with some yarn suppliers in Teotitlan to see if it is more cost effective to buy yarn from them (instead of having it shipped from the States) for my knitting project, which geri has dubbed, "HATS FOR BRATS," and I rather like the name. Next time you and Brigitte are in town, if you have any contacts there, I would love to colectivo over and meet them. Thanks.
Yaxchi

Vichil

Nov 16, 2009, 4:53 PM

Post #10 of 10 (4391 views)

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Re: [Yaxchibonam] San Juan Copala

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Hi

I will be in Teotitlan in January but in the meanwhile I sent you a private message on wool in Chiapas and Oaxaca so we will see what we can find out.