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Hound Dog

Nov 1, 2009, 12:49 PM

Post #76 of 83 (3871 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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If you think I was insinuating that you moved one step in front of the sheriff, then your imagination is running wild. As "the Dawg" was Bubba for years before he became "The Dawg" and that's what he was when I first encountered him, I remember that name better - I won't say with affection - but that is the name I remember - but if you prefer to be called Bob rather than any of your other pen names, then let us all know.

"...but if you prefer to be called Bob rather than any of your other pen name, let us all know."

Whatever you wish to call me Bridget, don´t call me, I´ll call you. Please hold your breath in anticipation of that event.

Bob*

*I must point out that "Hound Dog" is a name I, Bob Plummer, a resident of Ajjjic for the better part of a decade, came up with because people such as Bournemouth were so irate at my previous iconoclastic postings they found irritating, that some managers of this forum requested that I no longer use that nom de internet to appease these control freaks so I invented the name "Hound Dog" to appease forum management. It is the height of irony that posters such as Bournemouth would subsequently use that against "Bubba" to infer he was hiding behind noms de internet meant to disguise his character.

Delicious irony if there ever was such a thing. Brits drowning in their own loos.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 1, 2009, 1:16 PM)


bournemouth

Nov 1, 2009, 1:28 PM

Post #77 of 83 (3854 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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There goes that imagination again - working overtime.


Gringal

Nov 1, 2009, 2:05 PM

Post #78 of 83 (3839 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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An aside to your aside, Dawg.

Some years ago, my husband and I tripped off to France. Overestimating my working knowledge of the language with sometimes hilarious results, we set off from Paris to see the Chartres cathedral, by train. Now, any self respecting tour guide would have herded his charges to the local tourist restaurant, but that was not our destiny and we wound up in a bar cum food establishment where the local yokels could have come straight out of any redneck place you can name.
This is la Belle France? I wondered....but hell yes, of course it was. As you said.....there are some things you don't need to get into.

As Popeye the Sailor said: I yam what I yam. No head hanging.


mazbook1


Nov 1, 2009, 2:43 PM

Post #79 of 83 (3812 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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"Why is it that foreigners inclined to post hereabouts spend so much time lamenting their awkward inability to conform to local norms?"

Dawg, purely my opinion, but I think it's because they bragged back home and when they first got here that they were going to learn Spanish and integrate and interact in the local (Mexican) community and now find themselves unable or unwilling to make the necessary changes or to study enough to actually speak a little Spanish…more than más cerveza at least…so they are embarrassed, yet won't admit it.

Gringgal, "Learning conversational Spanish and re-setting their "internal clocks" is more difficult. I fail to see why they should be expected to."

No one "expects them to" do anything. They're embarrassed because they haven't done what they said they would do. Personally, I think it's a damn shame. Anyone who retires and has the guts to move to a foreign country should be able to at least change their clock to the time of their new country.

I never said they should learn "conversational" Spanish, I said "reasonably conversational" and there is a huge difference. I'm certainly a case in point. I have a huge Spanish vocabulary (that's just memorization, after all, something that every healthy person can do if they wish to), and I learned the simple rules for correct pronunciation, and I bought programmable hearing aids that I have no use for in an English speaking environment so that I could actually hear the different (than English) sounds of spoken Spanish, and guess what? Even though my Spanish grammar is really bad (better every day, but the days are running out), I am "reasonably conversational" in Spanish and not the least embarrassed to use it in a social, non-English-speaking situation.

It all boils down to whether a person wants to retire to loaf and then die or wants to keep on learning new things every day and live a full life. That is what I believe and practice. Hell, I'm older than probably 70% of the expat retirees here in Mazatlán and I legally adopted four kids and started a major new international company just a couple of years ago. I'm here to tell you that that was one very steep learning curve (still going on too). If I had spent the preceding 10 years of retirement sitting on my duff, I would never have been able to accomplish it.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Nov 1, 2009, 2:51 PM)


Zarcero

Nov 1, 2009, 2:43 PM

Post #80 of 83 (3812 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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mazbook1

Quote
The expats who don't reset their clock and don't learn more than a little bit of tourist Spanish, automatically "ghettoize" themselves. Unfortunately, they are the majority of gringo expats in México. I feel sorry for them, but I sure don't socialize with them.

That was my point.

Gringal

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Look at the history of the U.S., as an example. First generation......clung on to the native country's ways and for many, the language. Second and third generation.....integration into the host society.

Not quite analgous. The expat moving to Mexico is generally wealthy by comparison. The immigrant coming to the US was/is usually dirt poor.

Gringal

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Learning conversational Spanish and re-setting their "internal clocks" is more difficult. I fail to see why they should be expected to.

Correct, and at the same time they should not then complain when standards are not up to what they are accustomed to in the US.

I am enjoying the Hound Dog and bournemouth dialog.


Gringal

Nov 1, 2009, 3:10 PM

Post #81 of 83 (3801 views)

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Re: [Zarcero] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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I think this discussion is about tolerance....toward each other. More wouldn't hurt.

I'm hearing a lot of "putdowns" in this thread.

I don't think we were discussing expats who are complaining about standards, etc. We are speaking about whether people should be looked down on for failing to reset their clocks, learn the language well and do whatever it takes to avoid loafing and dying. Nobody has to associate with people who are not of like mind. However, we can be tolerant of the differences. Not everyone has the same capacities for learning and changing. So?

Whether an immigrant is rich or poor, being uprooted from the familiar is not easy. Some people are more intelligent, some more flexible, but most people are trying to make the best of their lives, wherever they are.


(This post was edited by Gringal on Nov 1, 2009, 3:43 PM)


Zorba

Nov 1, 2009, 11:47 PM

Post #82 of 83 (3714 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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I make a funny face and scrunch my nose when this sort thing goes on.

I find it highly arrogant and condescending when some expats judge other expats.

In effect saying, "They should do this or they're not doing this or how dare they this etc etc."

Just mind your own business. Everyone comes to Mexico for different reasons.
If said expat is doing something seriously wrong, the LOCAL population will certainly
let them know. Of course, it is nice if an expat points certain mistakes out to
another. However, this should be in the spirit of genuinely wanting to help them adjust,
as opposed to some sort of sense of superiority.

I have never seen this phenomena so strong as when I was living in Japan. The expats in Japan are
really weird in this way. They all seem to be competing over who speaks the best Japanese, who
is having the most "genuine" Japan experience etc. etc. You would see another expat face and they
would intentionally ignore you because you were somehow infringing upon "their Japan".

There is some of this in Mexico, but not nearly as bad as in Japan. I have found most expats in Mexico
to be fun loving folks and really friendly.

There does, however, seem to be a population of expats who have really integrated themselves into the society
and then, somehow, instead of being gracious towards less knowledgeable newcomers, prefer to judge them and
consider themselves on another level.

Let me tell you something and if you are truly integrated you will know it is true. No matter how much of the language, culture, customs you learn you will always always be a "gringo". An "other". Go ahead and flash around your Mexican passport all you want, who cares. Doesn't matter.

I've lived in several different countries and my degree of integration depended on certain things. For me, Mexico was the easiest country to integrate myself into. It just matched up best with my own personality. In Japan, I didnt do as well because it just didnt match up. In the Middle East not so much either because my primary goal was to make
a lot of tax free money. So it depends.

You may be in Mexico because you fell in love and had kids, maybe you are a student, maybe you are a snowbird, maybe you just want a lower cost of living in your retirement, maybe you are working at your company's branch in D.F. for a year, maybe you just want to party and get laid.

Why would or should all of those people behave the same? Just because you think so?


(This post was edited by Zorba on Nov 2, 2009, 12:22 AM)


tonyburton


Nov 2, 2009, 6:53 AM

Post #83 of 83 (3681 views)

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Re: [Zorba] Questions and Concerns about Foreigners in Mexico

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This thread has become too long to be easily viewable, hence I'm locking it. Feel free to continue the saner parts of this discussion on a new thread. Tony
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