Oct 28, 2009, 9:52 AM
Post #24 of 26
Hola a todos:
Let me weigh in on :>>>> ¡Qué escandalosa la minifalda de esa chica, por poco se le ven los chonitos! I want to do this because the whole discussion is becoming very confusing. So let me either add to the confusion or help to clear it up. I hope to do the latter.
Reflexive verbs are one thing and passive sentences are another. Colibri1 is getting there. Passive sentences constructed with the pronoun se (oneself, yourself, themselves, etc.) are not the same as sentences constructed with a reflexive verb. For example: Se me quemaron los frijoles. The beans burned themselves (for, to, etc.) me. We would translate this into English as "The beans were burned." Not I burned the beans because I don't want to take the blame. Not that Teresa burned the beans because I don't want to throw blame on her either. In other word a passive construction where the actor is not even mentioned. Yet in the sentence Se me quemaron los frijoles it appears that quemarse is a verb. Not so. The Real Academia Española says:>>La palabra quemarse no está en el Diccionario. Let's take another example of the passive construction: Se me invitaron ir con ellos. It appears here that invitarse is a reflexive verb. Not so. Invitarse is again not in the diccionary. We would probably translate this sentence as: I was invited to go with them. Again a passive construction. Actors not mentioned.
>>>... por poco se le ven los chonitos! Word for word translation: ...por poco=almost se=themselves/ le=on her/ ven=her panties see/ los chonitos=panties and is the subject of the phrase. (Se (themselves) refers to panties. Le is to her, on her, for her, etc. Awkward translation is: her panties almost see themselves on her. Better translation is her panties can almost be seen on her. The preposition that goes with le is any which fits.
Now to add to the confusion. The Real Academia Española (RAE) says there is no such word as verse.>>>La palabra verse no está en el Diccionario. They also say that the word irse doesn't exist:>>> La palabra irse no está en el Diccionario.Yet we know that here in México ir means to go and irse means to go away. Now although there is no such verb as verse our friend Esperanza with more experience here than I, says that verse means:>>> And the verb is verse, the reflexive verb that means ' to appear, or to see myself, himself, herself, etc'.<<< So I am am willing to accept her meaning that the verb ver is to see and se is oneself, yourself, themselves, etc. Irse the same thing, go oneself, go yourself, go themselves, etc. But the bible of Spanish says there are no such verbs. That I accept. For that reason I am not willing to accept that there is a verb verse although the verb ver has a pronoun (themselves) separated from itself. So to make it even clearer, the phrase ...por poco se le ven los chonitos can also be said differently, por poco le pueden verse los chonitos. ..her panties are almost able to see themselves on her. Here the pronoun se is attached to ver but the main verb is poder and is in the plural as it should since chonitos (the subject) is plural but verse is now clearly the verb ver with the pronoun themselves attached to it.
By the way, here are some translations of other examples provided by Manual Dexterity
Bañarse en el mar es muy divertido. To bathe oneself in the sea is a lot of fun. Bathing in the sea is a lot of fun. (passive) Bañarse is not in the RAE dictionary.
Mi hijo tiene dificultad para levantarse en la mañana. My son has difficulty in getting himself up in the morning. My son has trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Levantarse is not in the RAE dictionary.
Odia enfermarse. To sicken himself, herself, oneself is hateful. He/she/one getting himself/herself/oneself sick is hateful. Odio enfermarme. My getting sick is hateful. (passive) Enfermarse is not in the RAE dictionary.
No le gusta enojarse con nadie pero con la moderadora es difícil. Hey this is harder. Where is the subject? The moderator? One? Ah! Confusion sets in. With the moderator it is hard for her not to get mad at somebody. It is hard for the moderator not to get mad at somebody. But is this what Manual Dexterity really means? I don't know. He could mean that He/she/ONE (subject understood) doesn't want to get mad with anybody, but it is difficult not to do so with the moderator. What do you think he means?
Fueron al bar a tomarse una cerveza. You all/They (subject understood) went to the bar to get yourselves/themselves a beer. Better construction would be Fueron al bar para tomar una cerveza. That se doesn't need to be there. But, maybe the bar is where we all should go right now. And that preposition a is becoming ubiquitous here in México.
So many verbs which we here in México think of as reflexive really aren't. Or maybe reflexive verbs are a Mexican or Latin American invention?
Getting back to the original sentence:>>>Qué escandalosa la minifalda de esa chica, por poco se le ven los chonitos!<<<< Let's translate that as:>>>That girl's miniskirt is so short it's a scandal, one can almost see her underwear!<<<< Our friend Peter has it right. That is the meaning of the sentence no matter what the literal translation of the nouns or objects or verbs or prepositions might be.
(This post was edited by jerezano on Oct 28, 2009, 10:17 AM)